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Grouping being used to grief newbies |
Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral
Chatting in 'DarkSpace English'
Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 568
|  Posted: 2012-06-19 11:45
It still happens, either intentionally or not, and the shared prestige loss is apparently a good way to lessen how much you lose by making a poor newbie suffer half of it.
About to die? group a clueless newbie and get them demoted to midshipman.
You don't care, right? Who cares about newbies anyways. They're only the future of the game.
It's not like it takes 20 times longer for them to make as much prestige as you do or anything.
I'm sorry, I just get so burned up when I see a newbies rank plummet because they thought a group was entirely a good thing, and not having much telling them otherwise.
And you people grouping them so you can scrap a planet or self destruct your station, or generally fly like a complete idiot should be kicked squarely in the nut sack.
[ This Message was edited by: Fluttershy on 2012-06-19 11:48 ]
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Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 363
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2012-06-19 11:49
Didnt you already make a post about this before?
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Cold Death *RO*
Vice Admiral
Vanguard
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 59
From: Right behind you...
| Posted: 2012-06-19 12:18
You have a point, flutter.
The way groups work is ridiculous. If you have 5 people in a group, do 4 of them have to suffer for the fact that someone is flying like an idiot or is intentionally doing badly? I don't think they should.
I think the group system is.. exploitable in a way. It's very easy to demote someone if he's in a group with you. The fact is that people have a lot of pres these days and dying in a station is not a real problem for them.
A Group has to be benefitial to the people in it. If someone decides to ram in a planet just because it seems fun, that doesn't mean the entire group had to suffer from it.
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RogueAvenger
Marshal
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: September 11, 2010
Posts: 295
From: England
| Posted: 2012-06-19 12:34
idea of a group is
you share the benefit you share the loss but i get where your coming from my suggestion is to dilute the pres loss for lower ranks i.e
CM is group leader he is grouped with VA
currently
CM die's
loss of 100 pres
both lose 50 pres / (insert fancy pres loss formula for exact number)
insted
CM die's
loss of 100
(brand new formula that tones down newbie loss)
CM lose something like 86.789 pres
VA lose 13.321 pres
just a rough idea.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Gutsy Galaxy Guard
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 3992
| Posted: 2012-06-19 12:56
I guess we need to add a big "WARNING: IF YOU ARE GROUPED ALL STAT GAIN AND LOSS IS SHARED" somewhere in game or something.
hm, let me think of a few things that might help alleviate this
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Carcinogenic
Fleet Admiral
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 273
| Posted: 2012-06-19 13:24
i thought grouping was brought in the game to allow rewards for low rewarding ships pres wise, like dictor or beacon scout.
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2702
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2012-06-19 13:30
I might be wrong, been a while since I looked at the code.. but points are split based on rank, it's not an equal split between all members but instead is scaled based on your rank relative to the other members of the group.
Again, I might be wrong on this and if it's not implemented this way, perhaps it needs to be changed to be like this.
-F
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2627
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2012-06-19 14:20
Something to be said for choosing your group members.
I would like to see a link handy for a /[input] option list. Then even newbies would learn to /who and at least get an idea of how decent their proposed group member may be.
But then, I know when there aren't many people to choose from....
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1176
| Posted: 2012-06-19 16:03
Quote:
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On 2012-06-19 13:30, Faustus wrote:
I might be wrong, been a while since I looked at the code.. but points are split based on rank, it's not an equal split between all members but instead is scaled based on your rank relative to the other members of the group.
Again, I might be wrong on this and if it's not implemented this way, perhaps it needs to be changed to be like this.
-F
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I believe you are incorrect, and when you say "scaled based on rank", does that mean you gain more prestige if a Chief Marshal shoots something than you would when an Ensign shoots something, both using the same ship?
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Ray[OU]
Marshal
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: December 07, 2010
Posts: 158
From: Some where in deep space, From another galaxy. [Origin Unknown]
| Posted: 2012-06-19 16:17
QQ QQ QQ QQ easy fix choose your group memebers wisely or dont group at all ,so stop the QQ and use common sence. I swear the stupiditity in this is redic. ppl CHOOSE to enter a group they dont HAVE to thus they will be rewarded/punished accordingly. If a noob gets demoted in a group its there fault as much as the one who they grouped with. So getting mad at someone for demoteding you in a group is also your fault for grouping them in the first place. This is why i rarely group i dont wanna lose pres. i am smart and if i demote its my own prob. Also unlike most players if a small guy wants to group i DO tell them the risk. And yes i will agree with flutter grouping with a small guy only to intentionally demote said small guy back to midship man should be shot! and if i see it I will tell the small guy to leave the group and team kill the idiot that intentionally demoted him.
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Talien
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: May 11, 2010
Posts: 1735
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2012-06-19 16:45
Really, ray? You tell other people to use common senSe, yet you seem to have conveniently forgotten about it yourself. Think for a moment about standard MMO group mechanics then compare them to the group mechanics in DS. How many other MMOs have penalties attached to grouping, let alone have groups as something other than 100% positive exp gain? Every other MMO I've played, read about, seen, or heard about has groups as a way to help people level and I've not run across a single one aside from DS that you can actually LOSE exp from grouping in.
Now think about people who have never played DS before. How can they really be expected to know that groups are so vastly different here compared to anything else they've played? It's not explained anywhere that can be easily found, and most people don't explain it in game when they invite someone to a group or get invited to a group by someone else, especially when it's in the middle of combat.
Having a link labeled something like "READ THIS FIRST IF YOU'RE A NEW PLAYER!" with info like the way groups work, pres needed for each rank, what ships are available at each rank, and other commonly asked questions would be a big help I'd think
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RogueAvenger
Marshal
The Myrmidon Legion
Joined: September 11, 2010
Posts: 295
From: England
| Posted: 2012-06-19 17:01
Quote:
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Now think about people who have never played DS before. How can they really be expected to know that groups are so vastly different here compared to anything else they've played? It's not explained anywhere that can be easily found, and most people don't explain it in game when they invite someone to a group or get invited to a group by someone else, especially when it's in the middle of combat.
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saying that not many other mmos have xp loss...
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1115
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2012-06-19 17:55
Once again, I bring up my suggested changes to grouping to make it more beneficial to all parties involved, rather than leeching prestige from players in bigger ships and costing people in smaller ships huge amounts of prestige:
http://www.darkspace.net/index.htm?module=forums.php&page=/viewtopic.php?topic=51080&forum=36&18
[EDIT]Oh, and if you do see people griefing newbies, do report them. My banhammer grows restless.
[ This Message was edited by: Gejaheline on 2012-06-19 17:56 ]
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 3824
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2012-06-19 18:26
clearly its unreasonable to think that the people who DO know better would perhaps pass along that bit of information to the people who dont.
god forbid you self-named vets encourage newbies rather than discourage them, educate them rather than decimate them. nobody to fight in the metaverse and AI are just annoying? well hey, thanks for contributing to a newbie-friendly environment.
you, the collective community and/or player base, are a very big part of the reason why darkspace is in the shape it's in today. and you can take that any way you like.
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Mylith
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 19, 2011
Posts: 491
From: Hivarin, CD+36*15693
| Posted: 2012-06-19 18:58
Quote:
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On 2012-06-19 18:26, Doran wrote:
clearly its unreasonable to think that the people who DO know better would perhaps pass along that bit of information to the people who dont.
god forbid you self-named vets encourage newbies rather than discourage them, educate them rather than decimate them. nobody to fight in the metaverse and AI are just annoying? well hey, thanks for contributing to a newbie-friendly environment.
you, the collective community and/or player base, are a very big part of the reason why darkspace is in the shape it's in today. and you can take that any way you like.
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This. So much.
There is something very interesting you can give to newbies who are doing newbie things. It's called advice. Most newbies usually really want to learn.
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