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Forum Index » » English (General) » » How did Darkspace loose it's customers?
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 Author How did Darkspace loose it's customers?
Elfstar (Returning)
1st Lieutenant

Joined: March 15, 2015
Posts: 11
Posted: 2017-06-13 12:08   
I was wondering how Darkspace lost it's customers and now has almost no-one playing. Could someone please tell me how this happened?
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Entil-Zha the Starkiller
Marshal
K'Luth Revolution


Joined: May 02, 2005
Posts: 236
From: Arizona - Where DST is a myth
Posted: 2017-06-13 15:17   
One contributor could be EADs requiring Chief Marshal? Quite a jump from the original Fleet Admiral requirement and the rest of the UGTO dreads are fairly to moderately easy prey for the good ole Siphon...
[ This Message was edited by: Entil-Zha the Starkiller on 2017-06-13 15:28 ]
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*COMMANDERHAWK*
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*


Joined: February 03, 2006
Posts: 260
From: Denver Colorado
Posted: 2017-06-13 19:34   
lack of updates it seems like noone maintains the game. without fresh ideas the game gets stale and old. with other newer games out you can see why.
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nekofan5
Fleet Admiral

Joined: January 16, 2010
Posts: 4
From: Staten Island
Posted: 2017-06-14 00:04   
Well there are 100s of accounts that could make a comeback, and after such a long time since active play maybe it would be quite fun to bring back the space battles of old? Even if the game isn't becoming much fresher. Perhaps a community-organizing effort is all that is needed?

People come back randomly to this game all the time, it's amazing that way. But they end up leaving again upon seeing how desolate it is... if these "reappearences" could be organized I think Darkspace has a chance.
[ This Message was edited by: nekofan5 on 2017-06-14 00:09 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2800
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2017-06-14 16:55   
3 words: Lack of coders.
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Elfstar (Returning)
1st Lieutenant

Joined: March 15, 2015
Posts: 11
Posted: 2017-06-14 18:09   
You have given a variety of reasons. I will read over them and draw my own conclusions.
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners


Chatting in 'DarkSpace English'

Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1322
Posted: 2017-06-14 23:21   
Eh, it was mainly the fact that Darkspace couldn't pay for an actual dev team. Just wasn't profitable enough because Darkspace existed in a very small niche for so long, and it's only been recent that games like DS have become popular again. It would just be impossible at this point to truly have a full development team needed to make changes, and pay them.

Remember, this game was developed by less people than literally almost every other game out there. It was so ahead of it's time, and it had an extremely dedicated community. And DS was a project of love for the developers. So the plan has always been to keep the lights on until literally the last second, we've just been lucky enough that there have been a few dedicated staff members through the years that have done their best to keep things afloat.

DS can change, but it'd require a lot fo 'if's, a lot of luck, and a few miracles sprinkled ontop. It's why we went to open source, and it's why a lot of us are still here. Either way, we at least still come sit in the lobby with people we've known for over a decade, or the few who've come along recently and stayed with us
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SnipeDragon
Marshal

Joined: January 03, 2005
Posts: 34
From: Texas, USA
Posted: 2017-06-15 05:25   
I would love to see the game make a comeback. I've been working on a new website for Dark Space since I took my position but have not been able to dedicate time to it at all, so progress has been slow.

The game is open-source, but finding developers who would be interested in volunteering their time to revitalize the game is the hard part. I have extremely fond memories of large fleet battles, with random K'luth popping up to rain on several parades. I have fonder memories of DS than I do from my years in EVE. There just isn't any other games like Dark Space out there.

I would love to sit down with everyone and figure out a direction we could take the community to get back on track and the breath life back into the project, but finding a time that is suitable for everyone would be difficult.

I still have hope that Dark Space can make a comeback.
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Entil-Zha the Starkiller
Marshal
K'Luth Revolution


Joined: May 02, 2005
Posts: 236
From: Arizona - Where DST is a myth
Posted: 2017-06-15 19:15   
I still say....

EAD made CM
=> Over half UGTO player lose access to favorite ship
=> Remaining UGTO left helpless without Big Brother since Shrooms are simply feasts
=> ICC now only faction for K'luth to hunt
=> ICC race hunted to the brink of extinction
=> Less ICC means K'luth go hungry
=> K'luth population plummmets to levels sustainable by meager ICC population

At least that's what the propagand mill feeds the drones back home...

The REAL reason of course is found in other posts....
[ This Message was edited by: Entil-Zha the Starkiller on 2017-06-15 19:48 ]
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1244
Posted: 2017-06-17 13:53   
I think DarkSpace lost players mostly due to lack of manpower to address issues with the game (staff's done an awesome job all these years though), and now that it's behind the times it's hard to drum up interest. A modernisation pass sharpening the game's identity is needed, but there's just not enough manpower available to make those changes (or properly iterate on them as a team).

For the past six weeks or so, I've been iterating on what a "DarkSpace V2" could look like by myself, at least design-wise. Wouldn't be able to code it, so it's just been a pleasure project.

Think DarkSpace as a "pick up and play" game that rewards some time investment is certainly workable, but it'd need to nix some measures discouraging play like prestige loss on death and the pay2win enhancements model which get damaged on defeat.

The more value is lost on dying, the less people are inclined to risk dying. And if you're not getting kills, what else is there to fight for?


[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2017-06-17 14:10 ]
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Entil-Zha the Starkiller
Marshal
K'Luth Revolution


Joined: May 02, 2005
Posts: 236
From: Arizona - Where DST is a myth
Posted: 2017-06-17 23:28   
I agree on the point regarding durability loss of enhancements. But I don't...or at least not entirely....on prestige loss from death. There has to be some sort of penalty.

It's there to discourage taking on more than your ship can handle and forces one to say...making it so a player must learn to fight more defensively or simply improve themselves to avoid further significant loss or even demotion. Otherwise in the end you could have scores or more (in a well populated game) of NOTHING but stations or dreads engaging in one massive melee without fear of any repercussions to themselves and where small ships would be at such a disadvantage that they could no longer make headway other than to be collateral damage from cross fire.

Does though have the unfortunate affect of some players getting singled out and hounded with deliberate intent. IE hunts meant to demote JUST promoted GAs back to FA....of which I admit I took part a few times...but the target of that hunt took it well.

The few times I've APPROACHED the brink of demotion forced me to rethink how I fought...or work on other aspects of the game to get a safety buffer back.

As for how I DO agree might be to prevent demotion. So if someone keeps getting killed either by stupidity or just bad luck...death would merely be a SORELY inconvenient setback. IE can be reduced to the min pres requried for a rank....otherwise for example...an uphill back up to say FA after being sent half way back into VA would be BRUTAL and could render most of ones garage 1 huge waste of space.
[ This Message was edited by: Entil-Zha the Starkiller on 2017-06-17 23:35 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2800
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2017-06-18 05:22   
Quote:
On 2017-06-17 23:28, Entil-Zha the Starkiller wrote:
I agree on the point regarding durability loss of enhancements. But I don't...or at least not entirely....on prestige loss from death. There has to be some sort of penalty.

It's there to discourage taking on more than your ship can handle and forces one to say...making it so a player must learn to fight more defensively or simply improve themselves to avoid further significant loss or even demotion. Otherwise in the end you could have scores or more (in a well populated game) of NOTHING but stations or dreads engaging in one massive melee without fear of any repercussions to themselves and where small ships would be at such a disadvantage that they could no longer make headway other than to be collateral damage from cross fire.




Yeah, this game mechanic called prestige loss. WORST MECHANIC EVER!!!!

Every MMO that has tried to add this that I have played has regretted it. And for the record, how a person plays their ship is their business. If they tool around and make zero pres for being stupid, that is on them. You would have them penalized for trying. That's plain retarded. We dont have small ships because they go forward one step, backward two, then log out. That is what that stupid mechanic has given DS; Newbie frustration rage quit. going forward this should be removed.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1244
Posted: 2017-06-18 10:46   
I agree there needs to be some consequence attached to defeat (and could argue defeat itself is consequence enough) to dissuade people from dying, but without the idea that you could spend two hours grinding your rank only to lose it in two big fights. DarkSpace is pretty much a MOBA, but it still punishes players who lose too fiercely.

Because that punishment is so harsh, people try to avoid dying as much as possible, which leads to fighting only if they feel like they could win. Worse, shooting from great safety is equally rewarding prestige-wise so there is little incentive to actually go in and risk a loss.

So replacing that mechanic with maybe a respawn timer could work. Ships also need to be more accessible, and I'd argue players should spend far less time grinding to get to a bigger ship. From there, the grind should be into variations of that ship, which is what DarkSpace has already started doing somewhat, but not sufficient yet; consider that newer players stand absolutely no chance of destroying a Cruiser or Dread in their Corvette or Frigate and there's little for them to do.

EDIT: I speak in shoulds, but I don't think the developers need to even heed that; I'm sure they have their own vision, and I'm not one to say my vision is superior.
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2017-06-18 10:51 ]
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Incinarator
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 24, 2010
Posts: 237
Posted: 2017-06-19 04:13   
Quote:
On 2017-06-18 10:46, Bardiche wrote:
So replacing that mechanic with maybe a respawn timer could work.



I personally hate this idea. I'd rather be directly punished for losing but be allowed straight back into the fight than have some arbitrary respawn timer force me to stare daggers into my monitor. If this change went through without reversing the jump speed nerf at the least then I'd be pretty uninterested in playing anymore.

Quote:
On 2017-06-18 10:46, Bardiche wrote:
Ships also need to be more accessible, and I'd argue players should spend far less time grinding to get to a bigger ship. From there, the grind should be into variations of that ship, which is what DarkSpace has already started doing somewhat, but not sufficient yet; consider that newer players stand absolutely no chance of destroying a Cruiser or Dread in their Corvette or Frigate and there's little for them to do.



I agree with this, and as a compromise with the previous post...

I propose we should let everyone spawn in the tier zero of all sizes from the beginning. That way even a totally green newbie can hop in that torp dread if they really want to. All the tier zero ships would be locked to midshipman rank, so it wouldn't matter how many they lost - they could always just spawn another. Otherwise I'd leave the current progression system alone. That way it incentivises people to play the new cool smaller ships without forcing them to.

Making the first tier ships not remove any prestige would also help. That way people can take out their first tier ships without fear of death, but at the same time if they want to be more effectve they can bring out the higher tier ships and risk losing prestige in return for kills.

[ This Message was edited by: Incinarator on 2017-06-19 04:14 ]
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SnipeDragon
Marshal

Joined: January 03, 2005
Posts: 34
From: Texas, USA
Posted: 2017-06-19 05:27   
Quote:
On 2017-06-19 04:13, Incinarator wrote:
Quote:
On 2017-06-18 10:46, Bardiche wrote:
So replacing that mechanic with maybe a respawn timer could work.



I personally hate this idea. I'd rather be directly punished for losing but be allowed straight back into the fight than have some arbitrary respawn timer force me to stare daggers into my monitor. If this change went through without reversing the jump speed nerf at the least then I'd be pretty uninterested in playing anymore.

Quote:
On 2017-06-18 10:46, Bardiche wrote:
Ships also need to be more accessible, and I'd argue players should spend far less time grinding to get to a bigger ship. From there, the grind should be into variations of that ship, which is what DarkSpace has already started doing somewhat, but not sufficient yet; consider that newer players stand absolutely no chance of destroying a Cruiser or Dread in their Corvette or Frigate and there's little for them to do.



I agree with this, and as a compromise with the previous post...

I propose we should let everyone spawn in the tier zero of all sizes from the beginning. That way even a totally green newbie can hop in that torp dread if they really want to. All the tier zero ships would be locked to midshipman rank, so it wouldn't matter how many they lost - they could always just spawn another. Otherwise I'd leave the current progression system alone. That way it incentivises people to play the new cool smaller ships without forcing them to.

Making the first tier ships not remove any prestige would also help. That way people can take out their first tier ships without fear of death, but at the same time if they want to be more effectve they can bring out the higher tier ships and risk losing prestige in return for kills.

[ This Message was edited by: Incinarator on 2017-06-19 04:14 ]




I think something like this could work, I also think that we should half current prestige requirements for ranks. I don't mean to make light of the accomplishments of current players who have grinded out their ranks and believe something can be done to honor current accomplishments, but I have shown several friends DarkSpace who are turned off after playing for a while and seeing how slow prestige gain can be. They see the "heavy duty" ships that they want to fly, then look at the requirements to use them which are understandably daunting from the perspective of a new player. We could even consider halving requirements for badges, all of this in an effort to make the game appear friendlier to newer players.

If we are going to lower the requirements of Tier 0 ships to Midshipman, or just lower them in general, I think it may be worth combing through the rank and badge requirements for every ship in the game. All of these mentioned changes should be fairly easy to implement, if it is decided to do so.
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