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[FAQ
Forum Index » » Developer Feedback » » [1.702] Release Feedback
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 Author [1.702] Release Feedback
Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1243
Posted: 2013-11-18 18:47   
01:27:28 Bardiche: "1.702 feedback thread where"
01:30:55 Fattierob: "make yur own!"

I follow my Fat, Rob-like overlords.

---

1.702 Feedback Thread (Please note: Opinions reflected herein, however subtle, are wholly mine and not the staff's. Interesting subjects may not actually be interesting.)

Post your feedback related to the 1.702 version of DarkSpace here. Particularly interesting subjects to provide feedback on are as follows:

1. Are Valence Autocannons balanced/a valid mod option?

Do you find yourself modding into Valence Autocannons? Are they worth swapping for instead of using gauss or railguns? Do they make you quiver in fear? Do you feel they have better damage output than other factions?

2. Pulse Shield cooldown nerfed to 90 seconds. Are missiles now valid to use against ICC fleets?

Before, the threat of a gazillion pulse shields going off every 30 seconds was sufficient reason not to deploy fighters and missiles against ICC. Has this change affected that? Do you feel it is now possible to use them?

DEAR ICC: Please do not complain about inefficiency of pulse shield's ability to take down all incoming projectiles, or to allow your point-defence to finish the job: That's not what they're intended to do.

3. Ship layout changes. Have they made you more willing to fly specific ship X? Are there any ships you feel need a layout change to be more desirable/less powerful?

4. UGTO EMP Missiles; Yay or nay?

Are there situations in which you believe EMP missiles are the best? Would you sacrifice raw damage output for the ability to wreak havoc on enemy systems?

5. K'Luth Telekinetic Torpedoes. Worthless, or worthwhile?

Sacrifice pure damage for range and the ability to do kinetic damage. Do you feel that trade-off is worth it? Have you actually used these weapons and observed their efficiency? Do you find the increased range to be useful? Do you feel a trade-off of damage for range is acceptable? What about damage for different damage type?

6. Does EWAR Armour break war as we know it and plunge us into a dark era of the ECM? Or do we believe in our ECCM overlords and fight the un-defended?

EWAR Armour sacrifices HP (and a LOT of it) for negative signature. Do you feel there are situations in which this was helpful to you? Have you discovered exciting new ways to hide your ships? Is it a broken mechanic that has forever turned DarkSpace into DARK Space?

7. Station, meet nerf bat. Nerf bat... Do your worst.

Before, Stations were the ultimate to bring out because of their ability to deal with threats at all ranges. Now, you can no longer engage between 600 and 1000 gu, and your missiles are inaccurate besides. Your wormholes are also slower. Has the amount of Stations in the metaverse increased or decreased? Do you take out your Station for quick groceries still, or do you only take out your Station when the need is great and the risk is worth it?

What about fighting one? Do you still hide, or do you feel more confident engaging one now?

8. Missiles are now both faster and slower.

It was intended that small ship missiles hit small ships, and large ship missiles hit only large ships. Do you feel as though this change effected that? Has there been any side-effects you feel are undesired and notable?

9. Anything else?

Bugs, broken OP, etc.

----

As per usual, try to be as factual as possible, using numbers whenever possible. While feelings are fantastic, rock feels underpowered against paper and paper thinks scissors need a nerf. Factually they are perfectly balanced, so numbers are key. Remember that complaining just enough does not equal changes being reverted, and that if one faction just seems so much better to you, it may be that they just better suit your playstyle.

Now then. Let's do this.

(Inb4 Fattie's authority is worth nothing and I wasted 15 minutes of my life writing this.)
[ This Message was edited by: Bardiche on 2013-11-18 18:49 ]
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness


Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 527
From: Red Lobster
Posted: 2013-11-18 19:34   
The Battle station changes are great!! it is much easier to counter one now, AND they still have a mighty combat punch.
Before, it was: "Oh great guys, they brought an LS again, what do we do now??"

Now, if you attack from the sweet spot 600-1000 and the stat doesnt have a support fleet, it will die quickly.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
Posted: 2013-11-18 19:39   
Quote:
On 2013-11-18 18:47, Bardiche wrote:
01:27:28 Bardiche: "1.702 feedback thread where"
01:30:55 Fattierob: "make yur own!"

I follow my Fat, Rob-like overlords.

---


5. K'Luth Telekinetic Torpedoes. Worthless, or worthwhile?

Sacrifice pure damage for range and the ability to do kinetic damage. Do you feel that trade-off is worth it? Have you actually used these weapons and observed their efficiency? Do you find the increased range to be useful? Do you feel a trade-off of damage for range is acceptable? What about damage for different damage type?

jury is still out on TK torps, seems to be a bug with em they do a mass amount of damage on hull, gonna test more of that later.

6. Does EWAR Armour break war as we know it and plunge us into a dark era of the ECM? Or do we believe in our ECCM overlords and fight the un-defended?

so far i haven't seen a use on luth for that, luth stealth armor has 30k hp( on frigate) so its really not worth the few points of sig i gained for such less defence. it should be notted that i use organtic normally on most of my sub dred ships.

7. Station, meet nerf bat. Nerf bat... Do your worst.
[i] the devs gave luth ntorps over SI, which brings a nests efective range down to 480 for ntorps and 300ish for beams, problem with this is now having 8 ntorps firing on a ship is alot of damage taken. ntorps do a max damage 133k per on a nest. that means getting close to a nest is a very bad idea



Bugs, broken OP, etc.



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Mefeng
Admiral
Raven Warriors

Joined: June 07, 2010
Posts: 25
Posted: 2013-11-18 19:41   
I like the changes to the ICC cruiser layouts. A little sad to see battle stations getting nerfed, but hey, I could never use one so.....
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black


Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
Posted: 2013-11-18 20:55   
these new icc cannons rate of fire is extremly high. alone with very good damage output, puts anything the luth has to shame.
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Sheraton *XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light


Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 464
From: Keel Mountains
Posted: 2013-11-18 21:30   
A few observations regarding the valence autocannons follow.

1) The autocannons deal energy damage as opposed to the kinetic of most ICC cannons.

2) While they do have fallout, it was mentioned earlier that k'luth like to engage up close. This means that the fallout can be discounted to a degree because of the upclose nature of k'luth. However, this does mean that the cannons are not as reliable on dreads that are engaging stations or other ships which are sieging a planet. In those cases it would be best to revert to either rail, gauss, missiles, or fighters to ward off the attackers. Against the UGTO we can simply switch to fusion torpedoes at range, or a mixture of railguns, and other energy weapons such as the laser weapons on the storm cruiser, tempest. or we can use stealthier ships to chip away at the UGTO with ships like the guppy, stealth cruiser, Rapid Assault Destroyer, combat destroyer, line destroyer, etc.

3) The incredibly rapidfire nature of the shots from the valence autocannons mean they can be hard to evade at close ranges and since speed is equivalent to how accurate a projectile is in this game, excluding missiles, the autocannons are actually an incredibly nice weapon to use on the rear archs against k'luth ships who like to uncloak with ravagers, and scythes since these two ships tend to be ones that are used commonly for sneaking up behind someone.

4) The autocannons can be combined with other weapon types such as sabbots or railguns to create a combination of damage types that means at least one type of damage will be doing its full potential on the UGTO at a given time because of the mixture of kinetic and energy weapons.

5) Autocannons can be refitted onto any ship that has railguns which means that you can have ships like the flagship dreadnought, combat dreadnought, line dreadnought, light cruiser, heavy cruiser, Rapid Assault Destroyer, combat destroyers, etc. with an ungodly amount of these fast firing weapons that can help you mix up teh damage types. The abundance of railguns with weapons such as torpedoes also means that you could equip sabbots on the one hand for kinetic damage and range, and valence autocannons on the other for short range engagement. This is not a bad combination since I was able to take apart a mandible with minimal damage (no hull damage at all) and deal with some ravagers and scythes while inflicting respectable damage that eventually caused me to jump out but left them with severely damaged armor and around 75% hull.

These are just some observation and suggestions for the ICC to observe and take into account with the changing armarments of our ships. Also, try using ECM to cloak fighters and missiles, it works incredibly well in my experience.

-Sheraton


Reposted from the 1.701 feedback thread because it belongs here.
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Sheraton *XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light


Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 464
From: Keel Mountains
Posted: 2013-11-18 22:45   
Shield OOC timer resets automatically when switching servers. This could be used to exploit an indefinite recharge on ICC shields if fighting around a gate.

-Sheraton
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Twilit Keel Mountains traversed at last we met a dragon who spoke thus: \"Sheraton am I who interprets the signs.\"

Iwancoppa
Fleet Admiral

Joined: November 15, 2008
Posts: 709
Posted: 2013-11-18 23:16   
Hang on a minute -

Missile changes.


What I'm seeing here is..


Big missiles are fast and can't hit anything because of terrible turning
Small missiles are slow and can hit anything but provide ample opportunity to get shot down



Do I see an overall nerf to missile tracking?

I think so.
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Sheraton *XO*
Chief Marshal
Faster than Light


Joined: January 18, 2013
Posts: 464
From: Keel Mountains
Posted: 2013-11-18 23:39   
Quote:
On 2013-11-18 23:16, Iwancoppa wrote:
Hang on a minute -

Missile changes.


What I'm seeing here is..


Big missiles are fast and can't hit anything because of terrible turning
Small missiles are slow and can hit anything but provide ample opportunity to get shot down



Do I see an overall nerf to missile tracking?

I think so.




I do believe you have entirely missed what actually happened. In a massive battle in Barnards Star with the K'luth that lasted for hours I was able to hit cruisers, dreads, stations and the odd destroyer with Linear Drive Missiles. I found the accuracy to be perfectly acceptable myself. The only problems I had were when the missiles were being shot down but even then the Point defense usually was not so overbearing as to allow all of them to be shot down.

-Sheraton
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Twilit Keel Mountains traversed at last we met a dragon who spoke thus: \"Sheraton am I who interprets the signs.\"

Bardiche
Chief Marshal

Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1243
Posted: 2013-11-19 00:33   
Quote:
On 2013-11-18 23:16, Iwancoppa wrote:
Hang on a minute -

Missile changes.


What I'm seeing here is..


Big missiles are fast and can't hit anything because of terrible turning
Small missiles are slow and can hit anything but provide ample opportunity to get shot down



Do I see an overall nerf to missile tracking?

I think so.




That's a kneejerk reaction. What the devs need are observations and test data to determine whether it's actually a nerf to missile tracking or a fix to make it as intended.
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Kinthalas
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness


Joined: January 01, 2003
Posts: 60
Posted: 2013-11-19 00:38   
Just a few earlier observations here.

The new ICC cannon looks to be a great addition for them, was extremely hard to dodge it even at a good range. It seems to be a great addition for them, gives them something with some punch. I did notice (in that same fight in Barnard's, though I got there late) that when getting hit by a number of them or even just a lot of them being fired.. it did slow my client down quite a bit, getting choppy etc (and never had trouble with this before, even when there are a ton of fighters and missiles etc).

Love the new Kluth torp, it's great for the range and even tracks pretty good because of it's speed. I've been using on a few ships already, and very much like it. Only thing stopping me from using it all the time, is energy use and needing elf torps to keep up.

Stations are the best I've seen them since coming back, although I've only been back since about a week before 1.7. They were monsterous to fight with such range and damage from cannons. With torps instead, it seems to be an even higher damage potential just up closer.

I definatly like the changes all around so far, keep up the good work dev's!
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Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Grand Admiral
Fatal Squadron


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 121
From: home planet: Exathra
Posted: 2013-11-19 01:42   
just wondering when we will get the ability to nav (ship directional control) while on F2 screen, also wondering when 'camera locked on target' will happen,love the auto-cannons good to mix with rails or gauss, mine layer cruiser needs to look similar to the luth 'scarab' layout (whichever luth cruiser has the mines)....ie needs to mix torps or gunz on there , otherwise good job keep it up.....................

***Peace***
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  Email Fatal Mack Bolan(WildCards_58th)*COM*
Forger of Destiny
Chief Marshal
We Kick Arse


Joined: October 10, 2009
Posts: 826
Posted: 2013-11-19 05:41   
dread-level missile tests, to determine effective hitting ranges.
references -
heavy missile - dread level damage missile
strike missile - dread level ranged missile

range of compromise is the minimum range where the missile misses the intended target by a large enough distance. this is only for ships with vertical launch of missiles.

angle of compromise is the angle between the ship's forward direction and the target, where the missile misses the intended target at 600 gu. this is only for ships with forward launch of missiles.


icc
range of compromise (station/dread) - 725 gu/760 gu

harpex
nominal range - 1500 gu
actual range - 950 gu
effective firing zone width - 200 gu

linear drive
nominal range - 2250 gu
actual range - 1800 gu
effective firing zone width - 1050 gu


ugto
range of compromise (station/dread) - 725 gu/760 gu

phoenix
nominal range - 1250 gu
actual range - <600 gu
effective firing range - 0

raptor
nominal range - 1875 gu
actual range - 1550 gu
effective firing zone width - 800 gu

heavy emp
nominal range - 1500 gu
actual range - 1125 gu
effective firing zone width - 375 gu


kluth
angle of compromise (station/dread) at 600 gu - 70 deg/50 deg

not much to say about ranges of kluth missiles, since they shoot forward and dont curve vertically.


notes
- vertically launching missiles turn in a flat circle instead of vertical circle when firing at targets behind the launcher. actual range is greatly reduced then. this makes stations actually give a damn about their orientation - the battle station absolutely cannot hit targets beyond 1100 gu if they are behind it. the line station is projected to hit behind upto 1600 gu, while the nest cant hit anything if its not within its forward 180 degrees.

- human dread missiles are too fast. at some 200 gu/s, they simply cannot hit close to their minimum range, and waste a lot of time in giant vertical paths. this could work with a range like 2000 gu, and was the norm on the old pirate station's harpex missiles, but right now its just wrong.

- kluth dread missiles are so short ranged they cannot reach behind them at all. their missiles might as well be only fore-right-left mounted.

- the heavy missiles take 3x energy to recharge, have only half the ammo of strike missiles and have crap usability. phoenix missile in particular cannot hit anything at all without range enhs, and with 24% range enhancing, it would only hit as good as the heavy EMP missile.

- station missiles are in a much better position. they have lower energy use than dread heavy missiles, higher damage and a far greater actual range. crap turning and crap speed with a long flight duration gives excellent accuracy against dreads and stations.

conclusion - dread and station missiles are broken hard, and still work only because of large nominal ranges. human heavy missiles are too unwieldy, and vertically launched missiles do not fly towards targets behind the ship like they do when flying to targets infront of the ship.


hint : changing missile launch directions can fix a lot of stuff.

[ This Message was edited by: Forger of Destiny on 2013-11-19 05:46 ]
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Fluttershy
Fleet Admiral

Joined: September 24, 2011
Posts: 778
From: Fluttershy
Posted: 2013-11-19 06:35   
I found Telekinetic Torpedoes to be useful against Combat Dreads using autocannons, allowing you to attack from further away and avoid the full strength of their weaponry and even stand a chance at evading some of it.

Not sure if K'Luth have torpedo falloff, it would be a nice tidbit of info to have on gadget tooltips.

Also, the Telekinetic Torpedoes match the range and velocity of Neutronium Torpedoes, so they go well together.


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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1184
Posted: 2013-11-19 10:24   
Quote:
1.720 log wrote:
Should finally fix missile accuracy issues!


This is the main reason
Quote:
On 2013-11-18 23:16, Iwancoppa wrote:
Do I see an overall nerf to missile tracking?


Small missles are used to hit bigger & slower ship, hence its speed is slow. And vice versa.
Missle is opposite to torpedo here.

Error found:
Quote:
Fautus wrote:
- Fixed issue with unique ID generation on mufti-core systems creating conflicting ID's that was resulting in client crashes.


Mufti or multi?
Quote:
-- M-500A Line Station: Ion Cannons replaced with Variance Torpedoes to make the station less supreme at long range.
-- Nest: Stellar Incinerators replaced with Neutronium Torpedoes to make the station less supreme at long range.
-- ST-162 Battle Station: Heavy Positron Cannons replaced with Quantum Singularity Torpedoes to make the station less supreme at long range.
- Missiles have had their velocity trends reversed. Lower-level missiles are slower and higher-level missiles are faster, instead of vice-versa. Should finally fix missile accuracy issues!
- Station-launched missile minimum range increased from 700 gu to 1000 gu
- Wormhole Drives now have a uniform 5-minute cooldown for all ships


Poor stations!
[ This Message was edited by: DiepLuc on 2013-11-19 10:27 ]
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