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Discussion: Mines |
_x$witchBladex_ [1.480 Fanboy]
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 26, 2003
Posts: 849
From: Upstate New York
|  Posted: 2008-06-08 13:14
First, Drow that was a very well done post.
Second;
Jack, in theory that sort of makes sense. But all this discussion about how ships of lower class should not be able to do anything versus a ship class above it is going to kill this game for new players. But this is not the right thread for that argument.
Concerning mines, you might as well remove them. If you aren't going to make them worth using, then why waste the time on having the 3 ship layouts that can use them if you aren't going to make them useful against anything higher than a cruiser? From what I have read/heard, I haven't heard anyone against making mines more powerful except a Dev or two.
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On 2008-06-08 11:32, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Truth of the mater is - there is no minelayer-dread (and no - we're not putting one in), and the only ship even capable of putting a DENT into a dread with mines, would be the Scarab (the only cruiser-minlayer class).
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And, uh Jack? He made no mention of a dread being a minelayer...
[ This Message was edited by: _x$witchBladex_ the Rum Loving Pirate on 2008-06-08 13:16 ]
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2008-06-08 13:30
I see it as this..
Mines shouldnt be an instant kill weapon, but sho do enough damage to make you vulnerable in Dreads and Cruisers.
Anyone stupid enough to take a ship that isnt ment for scouting through an unchecked gate deserves to get hit by mines. Mines have always been something that people should worry about when going through a gate into enemy territory.
With the lack of WH's being able to transport you throughout the MV now, gatecamping will become something that needs to be done as a strategic defense. Mines have always been apart of these camps.
Theres a strategy to beat mines, scouts. Send a scout through the gate to see if theres mines. Yeah, a suicide job, but atleast you're not risking bigger ships to it.
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Lux (Polaris)
Fleet Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 835
From: Asgard
| Posted: 2008-06-08 13:36
I have a feeling this is going to be one huge Dreadnaught war....
In any case, why not, as suggested before, raise the mine's output level (it doesn't have to be insanely much) and simply put a cap on how many you can deploy? Or what about that mines can't be used in, say, in a 200 gu radius of a jumpgate? That alone would solve the problem. Mines, as I'm restating, added another element to the game, a fun one at that. Adding minefields around planets not only forced enemy fleets to move in cautiously (not just jumping in en-masse) as well as requiring Scanners and ECCM (which, in this version, would require Scouts), and therefore more teamwork.
Mines don't have to blow gaping holes in Dreadnaughts. But I think a lot of us would like them to be more effective. And if smaller classes of ships are going to be configured to be so weak as to cause insignificant damage to a higher class, I think that'll screw over the newbies, as well as a large portion of the non-Dreadnaught using players.
Rather than "Mines shouldn't be able to even dent a Dreadnaught", I'm of the opinion that we should go for "Mines will hurt *if* you're dense enough to fly head first into a bunch of them." And I think the gate mining can be solved by a cap on mines deployed, or, if possible, a restriction on deploying around gates.
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Tim the Enchanter
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 28, 2006
Posts: 16
| Posted: 2008-06-20 09:58
there is already a cap, but I cant remember if this is true, but if you have a negative signature do mines hit you? it should be set up so that mines, if you have a negative signature, will not hit you unless you com into contact with it, but also, make it so that mines become unstable near jump gates, so that they have a tendancy to randomly explode, or even turn on their own team, so that guided mines might just hit the ship that launched it near a jump gate, that would add alot of stratagy to gate mining
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Dionysian *EP5* (Angel of Destruction)
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 135
| Posted: 2008-06-21 18:14
What about limiting the damage that mines do to armour / shields and maybe REALLY minor system / hull damage. ( assuming that differentiating between armour / hull damage is possible) so that maybe a full load will take out 2 standard armour plates. enough to get 1 arc down on a battle dread if all concentrated their but that BD is going to still be able to alpha you and kill you.
That way as part of a team the minelayer is useful - it can perhaps be used defencively to open up the first attacking ships armour as it comes through a gate but even if you pile up 4-5 ship loads of mines you'll only really take out the armour. ofc at that point your own defending gun / missile COMBAT ships can fire into the damage.
It would make assaulating defended gates possible - EAD rolls through slowly - detonates the mines but lives with front arc badly damged - can fire its own alpha and atsame time - the following ships roll though and past the lead ship.
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Griffinhawk
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 20, 2003
Posts: 137
From: Barberton, Ohio
| Posted: 2008-06-22 14:37
you could make is so that mines are hostile to everyone. you got like a 5-10 second safe time to get away from it or after you deploy all your mines they you can activate them and then they go hostile to everyone.
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Ospolos
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 31, 2004
Posts: 567
From: ON, CANADA
| Posted: 2008-06-23 12:43
Quote:[/small]
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On 2008-06-22 14:37, Griffinhawk wrote:
you could make is so that mines are hostile to everyone. you got like a 5-10 second safe time to get away from it or after you deploy all your mines they you can activate them and then they go hostile to everyone.
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Interesting, maybe allow the faction who layed them, could still see them, but still take damage from them.
That solves gate scooping ships for instant kills
EDIT: but what about greifing other friendly ships?
[ This Message was edited by: Ospolos on 2008-06-23 12:48 ]
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Griffinhawk
Vice Admiral
Joined: January 20, 2003
Posts: 137
From: Barberton, Ohio
| Posted: 2008-06-26 05:32
well i got that from startrek DS9...just be glad i did not suggest cloaked selfreplicating mines...
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YIIMM
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 851
From: Barcino, Hispania Tarraconensis
| Posted: 2008-06-26 06:45
Quote:
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On 2008-06-23 12:43, Ospolos wrote:
EDIT: but what about greifing other friendly ships?
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I suppose that would just fall under regular FF; it's possible for us to hit and damage friendly ships, but if done deliberately can be reported.
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