| Author |
ICC Shield: Liability? |
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
|  Posted: 2008-10-11 12:36
Quote:
|
ALL standard armour regenerates incredibly slowly. That goes for the ICC too - your armour regenerates just as fast as ours.
Ablative and Reflective armour do not self repair (the downside to specialising).
|
|
I normally do not directly challenge crediablity of staff. But Jack: ur are wrong.
Reflective armor DOES self-repair, it does now as it did in 1.483. Not only that, Reflectives armor in 1.500 self-repairs at the SAME speed as standard armor.
I urge everyone to take a ugto ship, swap for a plate of Reflective, a plate of standard. Take that ship into deep space. and watch em grow.
Jack. I know this was a honest mistake, but plz, PLZ check ur facts before u state it. U as Developer is suppose to be the expert on Ugto, if not ICC.
Quote:
|
If there's a problem with the amount of supply depots - say it.
|
|
I have BEEN saying it since page 1.
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-11 13:42
Drafell changed reflective to self-repair - ablative doesn't. Reflective is twice as slow as standard, standard is slow anyway. Honest mistake.
Either way, we'll take a closer look at platforms, and repair times, when we have enough players to see if it really makes a difference. We won't be buffing shields though.
At this moment in time, we havn't seen enough large scale battles to really test if it's a problem (for various reasons).
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-11 14:07 ]
_________________
|
Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2008-10-11 17:18
Slow down Jack and breathe.
I suspect the only thing that can be done with platforms is impose a hard limit on the quantity.
On Reflective & Ablative. This deserves it's own thread, but I'm thinking the benefits may be a bit too strong, epecially if reflective self regenerates.
I believe the issue is - assault class units and many Kluth. Both of these types of units have a tremendous point blank damage potential - much of which is driven by the beam weapons. Given that there are really only two types of weapons fire damage - and one of them (when available...beams are point blank) can be well over 50% of your effective firepower, regenerating reflective armor belonging to one faction may be a balance issue.
I may have just had what I consider an epiphany on this issue.
I'll leave the above because that's what got me to this idea.
If the issue is that regenerating reflective negates a huge amount of firepower - allow that firepower to be more selective in what type of damage it does. Allow beam using factions to swap in beam like weapons that do kenetic damage.
Particle Beams anyone? (that are defined as kenetic)
Nax
_________________
|
Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2008-10-11 17:42
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-11 17:18, Fornax wrote:
Slow down Jack and breathe.
I suspect the only thing that can be done with platforms is impose a hard limit on the quantity.
On Reflective & Ablative. This deserves it's own thread, but I'm thinking the benefits may be a bit too strong, epecially if reflective self regenerates.
I believe the issue is - assault class units and many Kluth. Both of these types of units have a tremendous point blank damage potential - much of which is driven by the beam weapons. Given that there are really only two types of weapons fire damage - and one of them (when available...beams are point blank) can be well over 50% of your effective firepower, regenerating reflective armor belonging to one faction may be a balance issue.
I may have just had what I consider an epiphany on this issue.
I'll leave the above because that's what got me to this idea.
If the issue is that regenerating reflective negates a huge amount of firepower - allow that firepower to be more selective in what type of damage it does. Allow beam using factions to swap in beam like weapons that do kenetic damage.
Particle Beams anyone? (that are defined as kenetic)
Nax
|
|
This is certainly one of the better comments I have seen, not only would it balance the game further, but it would also add variety to the slim weapon selections available to players currently.
_________________
Proud member of the Order of the Gaifen
Founder and former Club chair of the Shigernafy Fan Club
Co-founder of the Doran Judication Comittee
![Email Sens [R33]](http://www1.palestar.com/gamecq/phpBB/images/email.gif)
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-11 20:26
I don't think kenetik type beam weapons are the answer 
Drafell, Smartin and I were talking about ways to limit the number of reloads on a person at any time. Both hard limits and reduced returns on reload drones.
Anyway, a lot has to be seen before we touch anything like this. Like I said, more testing needs to be done, and we need to wait until we have enough players on both sides to really go messing with core functionality like repairs.
Shields won't be buffed though; there's nothing wrong with them.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-11 20:37 ]
_________________
|
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-11 23:46
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-11 13:42, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Drafell changed reflective to self-repair - ablative doesn't. Reflective is twice as slow as standard, standard is slow anyway. Honest mistake.
|
|
I'm siting in Sol deep space in a UGTO 7000engi as I write this. I've swaped a plate of standard armor, and a plate of reflective armor, and jumped into deep space.
I've been watching them grow for the last 10 min:
Time Standard Reflective
10:39:30 6% 7%
10:40:00 11% 11%
10:41:00 20% 20%
10:42:00 29% 28%
10:43:00 38% 37%
10:44:00 47% 45%
10:45:00 54% 52%
....I think we can tell that they are regenerating at virtually the SAME speed. Certainly not half-speed of standard.
Jack, once again, I beg u to check the facts before making statements in the future. plz, PLZ, take a ship out urself and check it. u're staff, people BELIEVE u when u post.
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-12 07:10
Sigh, I know the facts. It doesnt repair half as fast ([edit]it's not 50% like I previously thought, but about 20%). Reflective also has lower hitpoints, and as such, reflective is repairing at a slower rate. Like Drafell said in another thread - a piece of armour repairing at 1HP/s having 10HP total, is repairing just as fast as a piece of armour with 50HP repairing at 5HP/s.
PLEASE, PLEASE, stop jumping to assumptions.
I've looked at the individual armour files twice now - reflective and ablative REALLY aren't that strong. You can just select an individual damage type to fortify against, whilst leaving yourself completely open to another damage type.
Even with it's fortification against energy damage, I still prefer standard because I'm still getting hit by torps and cannons - and I don't want them doing twice the damage.
It has it's drawbacks, so PLEASE, PLEASE, stop. It's just a user preference to flying.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-12 13:51 ]
_________________
|
JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2008-10-12 08:13
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-12 07:10, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Sigh, I know the facts. It does repair half as fast. Reflective also has lower hitpoints, and as such, reflective is repairing at a slower rate. Like Drafell said in another thread - a piece of armour repairing at 1HP/s having 10HP total, is repairing just as fast as a piece of armour with 50HP repairing at 5HP/s.
PLEASE, PLEASE, stop jumping to assumptions.
I've looked at the individual armour files twice now - reflective and ablative REALLY aren't that strong. You can just select an individual damage type to fortify against, whilst leaving yourself completely open to another damage type.
Even with it's fortification against energy damage, I still prefer standard because I'm still getting hit by torps and cannons - and I don't want them doing twice the damage.
It has it's drawbacks, so PLEASE, PLEASE, stop. It's just a user preference to flying.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-12 07:31 ]
|
|
to put it simply the percentage and HP are TWO DIFFERANT THINGS
reflective armor may have say 100 HP (i have no idea really)
standard armor may have say 500 HP
reflective @25 HP its 25%
standard @25% its 125 HP
So if reflective charges 5 times slower than standard and has 5 times less HP then it seems to be at the same rate when u look at the percentage
_________________
[-Point Jumper-][-Privateer Elite-][-Summus Dux-][-Praeclarae-]
[img(RIP MY SIGNATURE DELETED AFTER 7 YEARS/img]
''Insisto Rector - Suivez le Guide - Tempus hostium est''
|
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-12 08:39
Wait, so let me get this clearified. If reflective is presently repairing at 1/2 speed of Standard. Then the my trial would indicate that Reflective is had about 1/2 the HP as Standard armor. Other wise the repair % would not be virtually the Same. Is this right?
Does Reflective have 1/2 the HP of standard?
_________________
|
Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2008-10-12 08:48
Yes, half the HP + half the repair rate = same percentage increase per second.
200 HP @ 2HP/s = 1%/s
100HP @ 1HP/s = 1%/s
Thought: Perhaps there could be an option to display armour and hull HP as well as/instead of percentages?
[ This Message was edited by: Gejaheline on 2008-10-12 09:46 ]
_________________
[Darkspace Moderator] [Galactic Navy Fleet Officer]
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-12 09:37
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-12 08:39, Delando wrote:
Wait, so let me get this clearified. If reflective is presently repairing at 1/2 speed of Standard. Then the my trial would indicate that Reflective is had about 1/2 the HP as Standard armor. Other wise the repair % would not be virtually the Same. Is this right?
Does Reflective have 1/2 the HP of standard?
|
|
Roughly ([edit] actually seems its more like 17/18% slower).
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-12 13:44 ]
_________________
|
deathblave
Marshal
Joined: October 10, 2007
Posts: 268
| Posted: 2008-10-12 10:56
icc can repaier in the dead of space then pound an ugo or a kulth wouneded at a planet
_________________
|
Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2008-10-12 12:13
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-12 07:10, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
PLEASE, PLEASE, stop jumping to assumptions.
|
|
Fine, quote all the precise figures.
It seems evident that the main continuing question is, platitudes that it's fine...general statements like it's double, half, whatever aren't really sufficient.
Lets see all of them. All shield & armor specs (icc/kluth/ugto) and put the conversation to rest.
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-12 13:53
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-12 12:13, Fornax wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2008-10-12 07:10, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
PLEASE, PLEASE, stop jumping to assumptions.
|
|
Fine, quote all the precise figures.
It seems evident that the main continuing question is, platitudes that it's fine...general statements like it's double, half, whatever aren't really sufficient.
Lets see all of them. All shield & armor specs (icc/kluth/ugto) and put the conversation to rest.
|
|
Only developers are allowed to know exact values (which you need SVN access to get anyway). Have to ask Faustus for SVN access if you want to take a personal look into it.
It also seems my copy of Openoffice isn't opening the developer datasheet properly, so until a time I know it's working again, take Drafell's values.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-12 14:00 ]
_________________
|
Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2008-10-12 14:26
These are the figures as accurately as I am allowed to supply.
Compared to Standard Armor, Reflective has 15% less hit points and repairs 17.5% fewer hit points per minute. It takes slightly longer to fully self repair, 11m30s compared to 11m5s for Standard.
It has a 50% resistance to energy and EMP damage types, but a 25% penalty against kinetic damage.
Ablative Armors has 4.7% more hit points than Standard Armor and no self repair. It has a 50% resistance to kinetic damage and no other resistance modifiers.
Reactive Shields have 13.15% fewer hit points compared to Standard Armor, and regenerate 52.7% faster. They take just under 6m20s to fully regenerate.
They have no resistances, and a 50% penalty against EMP damage.
Reactive shields drain more energy than Actives when charging, but less when undamaged.
Active Shields have 18.53% fewer hit points than Standard Armor, and regenerate 60.8% faster. They take about 5m35s to fully regenerate.
They have no resistances, and a 50% penalty against EMP damage.
Active Shields have a higher static energy drain, but generally less than Reactive when actively charging.
Organic Armor has 29.5% fewer hit points compared to Standard Armor, and regenerates hit points 0.8% faster. It takes 7m45s to fully self repair and no resistance modifiers.
_________________
It's gone now, no longer here...Yet still I see, and still I fear.rnrn
rnrn
DarkSpace Developer - Retired
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
