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Forum Index » » Soap Box » » My Thoughts on current MV PVP.
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 Author My Thoughts on current MV PVP.
Creeping Shadow
Grand Admiral

Joined: January 22, 2003
Posts: 261
Posted: 2010-01-21 19:01   
Quote:

On 2010-01-21 06:52, Code Red [the Mule]=XO= wrote:
So where are Fox now ?? ugto has no planets , you in Proc farming rofl




Pics or it didn't happen bud.
I have not been in proc for a very long time. even then i was only in proc for a whole 10 mins at a time. if i wanted to grind ai. i would go back to wow.

Ai needs to be removed or atleast stop gaining press after 1st rear?.. and about the new comers ehh, how about they do what I had to do. learn the hard way. I did not quit, I was 14 when I joined darkspace. yet i had balls to on trying. to show those higher ranked/experinced playeres (good times banshee, crim, even admiralchoas to that, agent tart, ruff, darksworde, Kc and many more) that I am a meal to be not taken for granted .
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Sauur
Chief Marshal
Praetorian Wolves


Joined: November 30, 2004
Posts: 475
Posted: 2010-01-21 20:47   
Quote:

On 2010-01-21 06:52, Code Red [the Mule]=XO= wrote:
So where are Fox now ?? ugto has no planets , you in Proc farming rofl




The only time I spent any reasonable time in process recently was to hunt down some TR members and ancillary ships that someone had told us were there. Coombie and I showed and they all logged. That pretty much somes up my last 6 months effort in that system.




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Starcommander
Marshal

Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
Posted: 2010-01-22 04:06   
Quote:

On 2010-01-21 14:54, Azreal wrote:



Your noobs would be far better off if their benefactors understood the wisdom of using the scenario servers for this activity. The prestige is better for one. They learn ALL the aspects of the game as they go, and you will be showing by doing because you are limited to start off as well. Then there is the invaluable experience gained by playing in combat, both offensive, defensive and furball. You gain the experience of fighting through all the ship levels, gaining a better understanding of how to attack or defend against each ship, how to deal with various situations.

I'll prove how tactically stupid the playerbase as a whole has become;

Much time has watsed crying over "tranny rushing". True veterans just laugh. Tranny rush? Isnt that another name for "capture planet"? Back in "the day", if you faced a fleet of cappers, especially outnumbered, the only smart tactic was to sit back with a tranny, and keep reinforcing the planet in hopes that help would log on. If you were lucky, you worked the invaders out of infantry, and they would have to at least have 1 ship start running infantry in. 1 ship now taken out of action. Then, knowing that the players were now out of infantry, and vulnerable in the dictor field, you might jump in and drop on a player or two. OOO. ! capped! two ships now down. Chaos begins to enter the enemy ranks. A dictor ship ljumping over to the gate to stop the incoming tranny works in delaying any attempt to either take the planet or help the dropped on player.

Withdrawl is inevitable, especially if you use the enemies mistakes to further drive him to more chaos. Help logging in now is almost a mop up role.

If this seems harsh to you, or if it feels like that is kicking somebody in the face, than you, my friend, are a noob. If this seems like some wacky or exploitative tactic, you are also a noob. Time in the game does not matter. Owning your enemy does.

Notice, I never said pull a station and jump to the planet. Pull a missle dread and jump to the planet. That's is what lunchmeat does.

These were pretty standard tactics before. It wasnt even a thought what you were going to do if you faced that situation. Now they call you a tranny rusher. Imagine that. Even if you are merely reinforcing your own, under attack planet.

Tell me how you develop that in the Proc or RR servers, and you have an arguement with me.

Otherwise, you have air.


PS. The above scenario was taken from an actual event from .482. That was not made up.





This works when you have PLAYERS on. Try doing that ALONE against say 3-4 people running like that in transports and you try and reinforce it, you will lose every time. A lot of what you say is true but only occurs when there are actually PLAYERS on to do it with!
If your a noob and come to the game and magically get into sag somehow but to find it empty of the faction you picked. What do you do? You fly aorund and maybe find an enemy ship (like a BD/EAD/siphon/krill/CD/AD) and you start shooting it. It fires back and kills you 1 hit, so you try again and die, again. After a few times of this you might be drawn to the red text in the top corner of the screen. If you find the right command (again magically) you just might find more to this game or are told to head to the scenario server. Without a tutorial AT ALL in this game, noobs are just gonna trickle in one by one a few might meet a vet and learn the game. Most will leave never knowing that this game MIGHT be worth sticking around in.
Scenario is wonderful and it dose accomplish what you miss out in the MV BUT it is still nothing like the MV. People who know ONLY the scenario come to MV and are lost as to what is happening. When they do get oriented around and find out how MV works they still will know nothing of combat or how dread/station battles work. They won't either in proc but that server is primarily for 2 things, a few badges (like combat/supp/privateering) and pres loss regain. Not meant to be a main rank up server. It can be but its more hollow gains like a kluth krill popping a engiee or an already dead ship that just spawned, just for the free "kill".


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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2010-01-22 05:33   
Uncle.

I give.

Believe what you like.
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Tikki
Cadet
Raven Warriors

Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 132
From: Canuckistan
Posted: 2010-02-14 00:04   
Quote:

On 2010-01-19 15:04, BackSlash wrote:
Higher numbers does not mean an overpowered faction, it just means higher numbers. We cannot balance the game around high player numbers on one faction either, otherwise you just get to where one person versus ten, and the one person has +10000% damage, and +10000% armour. We don't want that.



Though even without buffed stats for being the underdog, it sure can be fun playing a lone scout with about half a fleet trying to catch you.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral

Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
Posted: 2010-02-14 00:37   
Quote:

On 2010-01-19 10:05, Defiance{R33}*XO* wrote:


you cant force pple to be a faction.. that would just drive people off





i say they can (and should) because massively uneven teams drive ppl off just as much if not more.

or just make ppl faction hop to the winning side, wich IS what ppl tend to do.

trying to run a balanced MMO thats ALL about pvp and NOT have faction restrictions is evidently not working. all you need to do is look at pretty much all the successful pvp MMO's out there. they all have faction restrictions in one way or another. and the ones that do end up like this game, failed and forgotten.

i've lost count on the number of times i've seen ppl log in, orbit some planet for 10 minutes and then log off, and then 5 - 10 minutes later i see the same person bomb away on a planet that was the faction he/she joined earlier.
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Starcommander
Marshal

Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 579
From: In your base, stealing your cookies
Posted: 2010-02-14 02:53   
Quote:

On 2010-02-14 00:37, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-01-19 10:05, Defiance{R33}*XO* wrote:


you cant force pple to be a faction.. that would just drive people off





i say they can (and should) because massively uneven teams drive ppl off just as much if not more.

or just make ppl faction hop to the winning side, wich IS what ppl tend to do.

trying to run a balanced MMO thats ALL about pvp and NOT have faction restrictions is evidently not working. all you need to do is look at pretty much all the successful pvp MMO's out there. they all have faction restrictions in one way or another. and the ones that do end up like this game, failed and forgotten.

i've lost count on the number of times i've seen ppl log in, orbit some planet for 10 minutes and then log off, and then 5 - 10 minutes later i see the same person bomb away on a planet that was the faction he/she joined earlier.





This seems to be much easier now for unfleeted players with planets now auto unlocking when the player that locked them logs off. Sabo is so easy and rampant now its not even funny. The one solution that we (the players) put forth that said to allow players to CHOOSE at what rank to lock a planet at (from your rank and down), seems to have been blown off.

Yes I agree to making people choose a faction for at least a few days at a time. That way they can fly around and see if they like that faction or not, then change in a few days and try another till they find one they can call home. There are a FEW players who want to always be able to faction hop, and well....TOO BAD. Go LEARN how to play the game which means learn to STAY with a faction weather its on a down turn or not. Fleeted members have to play with there faction through thick and thin,. Yes they can change sides just like everyone else but they have a 1 week cool down. Also there is a reason there is a limit to how many ships you can have, it use to be only 6! So to those faction hoppers, learn the game and find a faction to call home.




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WH 40k armies, Grey Knights, Dark Angles, Imperial Guard (Vostroyan First Born) and Orks.

There is a thin line between knowing when to give up and when to try harder.

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Sens [R33]
Admiral

Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
Posted: 2010-02-14 10:05   
See... the problem with "proc farming" to assist newbies is that you need at least five to get anywhere near a positive net prestige gain. Mir repair pretty darn fast, and with a HC or BC, you'll be lucky to even scratch the hull. That being said, there are dozens of Mir about, all flying around to om nom nom you to submission. The point is, you're better off building or supplying as a newbie until you're an admiral.

As for the "majority..." Oh how the tables have turned, it was only a week ago that the ICC were the big dogs in the MV. Suck it up is all I can say. What we need are faction hoppers; not the ones that pounce onto the winning team, but the ones that voluntarily fly on the smaller faction. In the end, its more fun for everyone: fairer battles and more targets to shoot at.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2010-02-15 01:24   
Make it so fleeted members always have access to their one faction (guranteed spot).

Fleetless members are forced into the factions with the least players.

Sorry, but, I have to agree that you drive off more people with team imbalance than forcing them into a faction. Gives you alot of good incentive to be in a fleet (you will always get the faction you want).

I can't think of the number of times I've joined a game only to leave because there was no one on my side to work with. At least this way there is some kind of guarantee that there will be people on another faction and it doesn't force people to automatically go join the faction with people on it.

It should be within a reasonable degree though. Kind of a range. So UGTO has 10 people on, ICC has 5, Kluth 3, you'd get the choice between ICC and K'luth. But if there were 10 UGTO, 9 ICC, and 3 Kluth, all you can pick is Kluth. That way the underdogs get a better chance of getting more people, because face it, people will do what they can to get the most prestige gain.

Of course, this is circumvented if everyone joins a fleet, but hey, alot of people don't like fleets. So it works to me.




-Ent
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Jackal'
Admiral

Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 22
From: Connecticut U.S.A.
Posted: 2010-02-15 04:17   
Quote:

On 2010-02-15 01:24, Enterprise wrote:
Make it so fleeted members always have access to their one faction (guranteed spot).

Fleetless members are forced into the factions with the least players.

Sorry, but, I have to agree that you drive off more people with team imbalance than forcing them into a faction. Gives you alot of good incentive to be in a fleet (you will always get the faction you want).




I like the Idea but i'm not sure it'll be to our benifit.. I played WOW for 3 years and saw more guild names then i care to remember. One of the reasons i like this game is that, usually if your in a fleet, you have some skill and knowlege in what your doing. If i see a kluth out there with "pb" or "wolf" (few weeks ago at least), i'd steer clear or make sure i had backup, cuz i know that they probalby outmatch me. That's not to say that newbs shouldn't fleet up, they should. But they should be invited, or want to join a fleet. they shouldn't be forced too just to be able to play ugto or Icc.

Secondly, All the good fleet's i've seen brought their members in from working together. Before chall and I joined RSM, we worked with steve and nem, and other members for a few days and that helped us show them our skill. Well that was more for my benifit, we ALL know who challenger is. And i know that I was already in WKA, but if i hadn't been, i wouldn't have been able to work with those guys and they might not have known who I was or what I could do. We have to let people pick their factions as much as we have to let them pick which ship they wanna fly.


[ This Message was edited by: -Jackal- on 2010-02-15 04:28 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2010-02-15 04:52   
But not all people pick the factions they want because they like that faction, a good many pick the faction they want because they want to win.

Having more fleets around is not a bad thing, it is a bit elitist to think there should only be fleets for 'good' people, as subjective as that is. Any people who choose to band together should do so, if they so wish.

To fly under a common banner for the faction they want, why not?

All I know is I've had far more satisfying battles in scenario over MV than I can count because of the simple fact I could at least count on the teams to be even. And nothing is better than a fight on even odds.

There is always the choice of faction and fleet with this idea, its just not as freeform. You can either decide to be forced to balance out the MV or you can create a fleet with a few friends (or join an existing one) for the faction you want. The choice is always there.



-Ent


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Jackal'
Admiral

Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 22
From: Connecticut U.S.A.
Posted: 2010-02-15 05:23   
Sorry ent, i didn't mean to sound arrogant, i'm not suggesting that ONLY the skilled are allowed to join fleets. I'm just saying that forcing people to join the lowest faction unless their fleeted means that your gonna have a LOT of one or two man fleets, and that kinda defeats the purpose of having fleets. The idea of a fleet is to, yes grab a group of people to "work with" not just be there so you don't have to go with a faction that you don't want to be.

And not EVERYONE joins "the winning team" look at people like icarus II, he joins the smallest faction by choice to even things up. How about, instead of forcing unfleeted members to join the lowest faction, give them a reason to want to. I'm not sure how, i'm not very creative, but we shouldn't be forcing anything on people. The purpose of having 3 factions with 3 COMPLETELY different playstyles is to let people play the game how they want. I play on the senario server at least once a week just to get some fly time in with another faction to learn their ships and strenghs and weaknessess, blah blah blah... But i can tell you, i HATE kluth ships. and i wouldn't EVER wanna be forced to fly one in MV. I'm not saying they're bad, just not my style at ALL.And i'm sure there are others in other factions that share that opinion.
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Life is pleasant
Death is peaceful
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral

Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
Posted: 2010-02-15 05:28   
Quote:

On 2010-01-19 15:04, BackSlash wrote:


Notice how a few months ago it was "KLUTH ARE OVERPOWERED, NERF THEIR CLOAK!"..?





and they still are, just that your so deep down in the defensive trenches you cant see it.
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Jar Jar Binks
Grand Admiral

Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 556
Posted: 2010-02-15 05:30   
Quote:

On 2010-02-14 02:53, Fast Starcommander*CO* wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-02-14 00:37, Jar Jar Binks wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-01-19 10:05, Defiance{R33}*XO* wrote:


you cant force pple to be a faction.. that would just drive people off





i say they can (and should) because massively uneven teams drive ppl off just as much if not more.

or just make ppl faction hop to the winning side, wich IS what ppl tend to do.

trying to run a balanced MMO thats ALL about pvp and NOT have faction restrictions is evidently not working. all you need to do is look at pretty much all the successful pvp MMO's out there. they all have faction restrictions in one way or another. and the ones that do end up like this game, failed and forgotten.

i've lost count on the number of times i've seen ppl log in, orbit some planet for 10 minutes and then log off, and then 5 - 10 minutes later i see the same person bomb away on a planet that was the faction he/she joined earlier.





This seems to be much easier now for unfleeted players with planets now auto unlocking when the player that locked them logs off. Sabo is so easy and rampant now its not even funny. The one solution that we (the players) put forth that said to allow players to CHOOSE at what rank to lock a planet at (from your rank and down), seems to have been blown off.

Yes I agree to making people choose a faction for at least a few days at a time. That way they can fly around and see if they like that faction or not, then change in a few days and try another till they find one they can call home. There are a FEW players who want to always be able to faction hop, and well....TOO BAD. Go LEARN how to play the game which means learn to STAY with a faction weather its on a down turn or not. Fleeted members have to play with there faction through thick and thin,. Yes they can change sides just like everyone else but they have a 1 week cool down. Also there is a reason there is a limit to how many ships you can have, it use to be only 6! So to those faction hoppers, learn the game and find a faction to call home.








they dont even need to sabotage it, just need to find one that isnt built for bomb defenses.
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Jackal'
Admiral

Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 22
From: Connecticut U.S.A.
Posted: 2010-02-15 05:55   
Just on a side note before i go to bed. Kenny_naboo came up with an idea that won't outright fix the problems, but might help a little bit. I like the idea, although it would require some decent reworking. He talked about balancing uneven teams in the MV with AI. So if there's 5 kluth dreads on, and 1 ugto dread, there's some ugto AI cruisers, or maybe even another AI dread or two to help him out. Again it would take some work, but i could see something like that helping. For more details look at the post "Throwing Ideas out".


Just something to think about. DON"T TAKE IT AS MY IDEA AND THROW THINGS AT ME PLEASE..
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Death is peaceful
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