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Death penalty |
Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
|  Posted: 2010-06-13 18:30
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On 2010-06-13 11:10, Diep Luc wrote:
So, this is my last opinion for this thread.
Is death penalty necessary?
I just made a quick look from the beginning of the thread. The idea of death penalty is to punish the poor pilot, and prevent "quick revenge". But don't forget, when the death penalty applies, everybody will stay under it effect, even in sce. So, if you want to prevent your opponent to come back, then it's you will also be prevented when you're destroyed. Some players in this thread talked "I don't want that guy to come back immidiately after I kill him", but I don't hear "Oh, I was destroyed, now I don't want to come back". Why does everybody want the bad thing for the enemy, but not for himself/herself?
Ok then, I don't wanna Go back in the fight immidiatly after he killed me,oh wait, i never did jump back in a fight after death. here happy?
Oh, and zero ships when spawn is a crazy idea. If I know somebody is killed, I'd take a scout/fri to their shipyard/gate and kill them with one shot and not worry for myself. Kluth will get all the benefit from this.
what the hell doe sthat have to do with anything? arn't you mistkaking board by any chances?
It's true that the one who sacrifice one's big ships has a reason to die for. If anyone thinks Steve is mad, no it's not. He's used most of his ships to cease the activity of the enemies by his force and kami. That's a brave tactic that I bet not many will do.
he also got tons of prest to lose unlike most other people
I also notice that who support the idea are all admiral and above, who has the awareness of what to do. How about the newbie? To die again and again so fast will cause them to leave DS...
and what about the newbie, 1 who manage to finish off a dreadin his cruiser, BANG he gets jumped by a station by that same dude he just killed. THe timer penalty will stop them from Dieing all the time will give him a breather after a fight.
Because we all know the great vets of Ds love to pounce newbs dessy and Suppys in Dreads and stations, and that cannot be fixed by the Devs/mods, killign them all the time over and over again
So, my last line is to Violently agree to the idea.
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[ This Message was edited by: Zero28 on 2010-06-13 18:34 ]
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-06-13 20:59
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I also notice that who support the idea are all admiral and above, who has the awareness of what to do. How about the newbie? To die again and again so fast will cause them to leave DS...
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A respawn delay will not cause players to leave the game. Other games have respawn delays and it does not cause problems. All of the Battlefield games use respawn waves. Other games have built-in delays in returning to battles, like in Eve (for example), you get blown up, you have to fly away in your pod (if you are lucky) dock, wait 30 seconds, change to your next ship (assuming its outfitted and ready to roll), undock, warp back reaquire target. I have never played WoW, but my old roommate did and I saw him play once. When they died, they turned into ghosts and had to do all kinds of running around and crap to get back to business.
There is nothing wrong with a game that enforces return-to-battle restrictions on defeated players.
The game SHOULD have rewards for the victorious and penalties for the defeated. That's what it means to win and lose. That's how you play a game.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-14 00:09
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On 2010-06-13 11:38, Lonectzn wrote:
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On 2010-06-13 11:10, Diep Luc wrote:
Oh, and zero ships when spawn is a crazy idea. If I know somebody is killed, I'd take a scout/fri to their shipyard/gate and kill them with one shot and not worry for myself. Kluth will get all the benefit from this.
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You misread that. The suggestion was to zero energy and jump drive only, guaranteeing a short period until the ship is combat ready. I didn't suggest zero hull or armour.
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Actually zeroing the JD would be enough. You don't need to zero the energy too. That would put the returning player at too much a disadvantage.
Zeroing the JD for a set period according to the last ship lost would ensure that he has to wait till it charges up before he jumps in.
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-06-14 08:08
Love the idea, of a delay before you can jump back in to action again.
Upon death having what ever ship you select next have its jumpdrive exhausted to start recharging from 0 would work for me. (same goes for the WormHole device, set to 0 recharing upon spawning)
This would allow small ships to get back in to action very quick as the have a very short charge time.
Also, I doubt new players are even fully aware of any death penaltie at all.
This quite harmless deathpenalty that causes jump drives to start recharing upon death will make them aware of it.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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NoBoDx
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 784
From: Germany / NRW
| Posted: 2010-06-14 08:59
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On 2010-06-13 20:59, Kanman wrote:
I have never played WoW, but my old roommate did and I saw him play once. When they died, they turned into ghosts and had to do all kinds of running around and crap to get back to business.
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in WoW you have a increasing timer for continious dying:
first you can respawn right after you reach your corpse
after that you must wait 10 sec between dying and respawning and every additional death increase the number ( and not dying for a set time resets the respawn-timer)
i thought something similar, when i read the topic:
first death -> 0s respawn
second death -> 5s respawn
third death -> 10s respawn and so on
(+5s for scout, +10 for frig...)
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-06-14 09:11
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On 2010-06-14 08:08, Wild Cat wrote:
Love the idea, of a delay before you can jump back in to action again.
Upon death having what ever ship you select next have its jumpdrive exhausted to start recharging from 0 would work for me. (same goes for the WormHole device, set to 0 recharing upon spawning)
This would allow small ships to get back in to action very quick as the have a very short charge time.
Also, I doubt new players are even fully aware of any death penaltie at all.
This quite harmless deathpenalty that causes jump drives to start recharing upon death will make them aware of it.
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There's room for exploit with this system.
A player could lose his station, respawn in a scout and charge his JD in quick time, then switch back to a fully charged up station.
So it's not just zeroing the JD. It's also adding a flag and a timer that causes any ships spawned within that period to have zero JD. And that timer is determined by the ship class that the player last lost.
eg: Losing a station flags you a penalty of 3 minutes. So if your respawn in a scout and charge up your JD within 20 secs and switch to a station, your JD would still be zero and it'd start all over again.
So you can either fly that scout around for the next 3 minutes, or simply spawn that station and let the JD charge up on its own.
If you spawned within range of the battle, then good for you, you're back in action. It's just your lucky day.... unless you get jumped and targetted by the enemy again.
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-06-14 09:22
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On 2010-06-14 09:11, Kenny_Naboo wrote:
There's room for exploit with this system.
A player could lose his station, respawn in a scout and charge his JD in quick time, then switch back to a fully charged up station.
So it's not just zeroing the JD. It's also adding a flag and a timer that causes any ships spawned within that period to have zero JD. And that timer is determined by the ship class that the player last lost.
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Great fix...
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-06-14 16:15
Just to clarify.... I didn't suggest zero energy/jd with a new ship after dying. I said that should happen always. Any time you spawn a ship, new or from garage, it should come out like that.
The more I think about it, the more problems a change like that seems to solve. It only has one problem which unfortunately is a killer. Anyone camping transfer gates during fights would have easy pickings. It might have to wait until the single map.
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-06-15 08:02
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On 2010-06-14 16:15, Lonectzn wrote:
Just to clarify.... I didn't suggest zero energy/jd with a new ship after dying. I said that should happen always. Any time you spawn a ship, new or from garage, it should come out like that.
The more I think about it, the more problems a change like that seems to solve. It only has one problem which unfortunately is a killer. Anyone camping transfer gates during fights would have easy pickings. It might have to wait until the single map.
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In scenario I believe there is a no fire zone.
Don't know about MV, but if the game can tell the difference between spawning because of death or transferring from one gate to an other a difference can be made there.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Mr Black
Grand Admiral
Palestar
Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 486
From: Gaifenland
| Posted: 2010-06-15 09:08
This is actually an idea that goes alongside something me and Jim have been considering recently.
Lets say that we start with a spawn delay of hullLevel * 3.
Scouts = 6 seconds
Frigates = 9 seconds
Destroyers = 12 seconds
Cruisers = 15 seconds
Dreadnought = 18 seconds
Super dreadnought = 21 seconds
Station = 30 seconds
Transports = 6 seconds
Supply/Engineering = 6 seconds
This could be referenced in the game as a constuction or undocking timer.
Now, for the clever bit.
This timer could also be affected by a planets morale, the Shipyard level and the current blockade status. Instead of a blockade preventing spawning completely, it could instead increase the time taken for ships to spawn at that location. Higher level Shipyards could undock the bigger much faster, yet also have significantly increased support requirements.
Of course, the big hurdle is trying to convince Faustus of the benefits of such a system, outside of further encouraging the use of the smaller ships for convenience in pitched battles.
[ This Message was edited by: Mr Black on 2010-06-15 09:14 ]
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2010-06-15 10:38
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On 2010-06-15 09:08, Mr Black wrote:
Of course, the big hurdle is trying to convince Faustus of the benefits of such a system, outside of further encouraging the use of the smaller ships for convenience in pitched battles.
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Here is the benefit. Someone could actually win a battle without having to wait for the entire other team to log off.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-06-15 12:17
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On 2010-06-15 10:38, Kanman wrote:
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On 2010-06-15 09:08, Mr Black wrote:
Of course, the big hurdle is trying to convince Faustus of the benefits of such a system, outside of further encouraging the use of the smaller ships for convenience in pitched battles.
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Here is the benefit. Someone could actually win a battle without having to wait for the entire other team to log off.
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THIS a thousand times over. While I love long battles, and I love incredibly long sieges Darkspace lacks almost any kind of functionality when it comes to actually winning or losing on a factional level.
Anything you kill, and anything you capture is extremely temporary. I love the above idea completely as it reverses at least one of those. (well, except for the small timers, but you take what you can get.).
-Ent
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-06-15 12:49
I'm all in for "some form" of delay after death before you can get back in to action, but I find a spawn delay (a little) more harsh then a jump delay.
Even tho the difference isn't that great as both yield the exact same results, With not being able to spawn (spawn delay) your limited to doing nothing but waiting until spawning with the exception of chat and limited use of the map.
With a jump delay, you have time to plot a course, more control over the map and what you can see (more camera control), able to reconfigure weapon fire groups if needed. For me this will feel like a lot more freedom and less the feeling you can't do any thing like with spawn delay.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2010-06-15 12:52
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On 2010-06-15 12:49, Wild Cat wrote:
Even tho the difference isn't that great as both yield the exact same results, With not being able to spawn (spawn delay) your limited to doing nothing but waiting until spawning with the exception of chat and limited use of the map.
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If its a spawn delay by ship class, you can always pull out something else to help in the fight. You do not suddenly become unable to do anything just because you can't spawn a dreadnaught or station.
-Ent
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Wild Cat
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 109
From: The Netherlands
| Posted: 2010-06-15 12:57
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On 2010-06-15 12:52, Enterprise wrote:
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On 2010-06-15 12:49, Wild Cat wrote:
Even tho the difference isn't that great as both yield the exact same results, With not being able to spawn (spawn delay) your limited to doing nothing but waiting until spawning with the exception of chat and limited use of the map.
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If its a spawn delay by ship class, you can always pull out something else to help in the fight. You do not suddenly become unable to do anything just because you can't spawn a dreadnaught or station.
-Ent
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True, missed that one, but the exact same goes for a jump delay in freedom of taking an other ship that can jump sooner.
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Wild Cat
Dutch Time
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