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Kluth Shrouds Invisable even with ECCM active |
Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
|  Posted: 2012-12-23 16:07
Quote:
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On 2012-12-23 12:27, Pantheon wrote:
I've just changed the natural signature of the Shroud Missile to -0.5 from -2.5. Changed should go into beta whenever a build next goes out.
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So will a Dread level ECCM counter shrouds? I thought the whole point of them to begin with was that you needed effective sensor cover and PD. I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't be super hard to detect, but If a single combat dread can easily PD all the missiles, whats the point of even having them? I could easily be wrong here, but I thought I would ask anyway. 
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Brutality *COM* on 2012-12-23 16:09 ]
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-xTc- ExisT
Chief Marshal
Army Of Darkness
Joined: March 20, 2010
Posts: 534
From: Red Lobster
| Posted: 2012-12-23 16:32
Naturally, being a kluth player, I don't like the idea of this nerf to shrouds, it makes me question the future usefulness of stinger/ganglia. Or maybe it wont be that big of a deal. Either way, I can't give my full opinion till after I can test it in beta.
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-12-23 20:32
It's a difference of 2 sig. Personally I think it's not much. And Panth has stated that it might not solve the problem of the missiles only appearing at the last minute or not at all.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo[+R] on 2012-12-23 20:47 ]
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{:FOS:}=Miziricord= [Elite]
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 20, 2012
Posts: 4
From: Omicron Gamma
| Posted: 2012-12-23 23:24
Nerf shrouds? My imho: dont good idea i think. Why? Well, if you nerf shrouds - need nerf some more ships for correct game mechanics. For exaple: If we follow the "canonical" model of game balance - luth - close ranged faction, and i think they should have a not very good missiles. But, EAD - it's a mad dog, we have to kill without remorse. Siphon would be better, and deal higher dmg in close range than ead.
So, my position in this situation - before we nerf shrouds, make some new feature for luth(better Krill?).
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Jumbat
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: August 26, 2012
Posts: 16
| Posted: 2012-12-24 02:23
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On 2012-12-23 12:27, Pantheon wrote:
I've just changed the natural signature of the Shroud Missile to -0.5 from -2.5. Changed should go into beta whenever a build next goes out.
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. Am wondering wy devs do all the time whatever ask ugtos rsm two face about nerf other factions you realize that you ruin the game and you make as hate more the ugtos rsm two face ctr. Please the game have 3 factions with diference ships and mendality dont make just ugto and the others Ps. Please ugto coresponder two face. STOP. Enaf. Of your misery just play and enzoy and letas play to. Ps2. Sory for my lang.i cant right in engll.:)
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Brutality
Marshal
Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 659
From: Alaska, USA
| Posted: 2012-12-24 03:55
Quote:
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On 2012-12-24 02:23, pangaia wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-12-23 12:27, Pantheon wrote:
I've just changed the natural signature of the Shroud Missile to -0.5 from -2.5. Changed should go into beta whenever a build next goes out.
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. Am wondering wy devs do all the time whatever ask ugtos rsm two face about nerf other factions you realize that you ruin the game and you make as hate more the ugtos rsm two face ctr. Please the game have 3 factions with diference ships and mendality dont make just ugto and the others Ps. Please ugto coresponder two face. STOP. Enaf. Of your misery just play and enzoy and letas play to. Ps2. Sory for my lang.i cant right in engll.:)
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Pantheon didn't change it just because two face brought it up, he changed it to help "balance" the game. If it's in beta, go test it out and report how it works. That is the best way to provide feedback. 
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Jumbat
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: August 26, 2012
Posts: 16
| Posted: 2012-12-24 06:53
Quote:
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On 2012-12-24 03:55, Fatal Brutality *COM* wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-12-24 02:23, pangaia wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-12-23 12:27, Pantheon wrote:
I've just changed the natural signature of the Shroud Missile to -0.5 from -2.5. Changed should go into beta whenever a build next goes out.
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. Am wondering wy devs do all the time whatever ask ugtos rsm two face about nerf other factions you realize that you ruin the game and you make as hate more the ugtos rsm two face ctr. Please the game have 3 factions with diference ships and mendality dont make just ugto and the others Ps. Please ugto coresponder two face. STOP. Enaf. Of your misery just play and enzoy and letas play to. Ps2. Sory for my lang.i cant right in engll.:)
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Pantheon didn't change it just because two face brought it up, he changed it to help "balance" the game. If it's in beta, go test it out and report how it works. That is the best way to provide feedback.
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. Xm. . Wen i right that i didn't have the shrouds in my mind .is the way thinks chance or not chance today is shrouds other time was shields other time was icc ad and ctr.
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Pantheon
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1789
| Posted: 2012-12-24 07:57
I/we never change something based on one player's view(s).
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Rykros1987
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 88
From: Not in an asylum. Yet.
| Posted: 2012-12-24 12:18
Honestly you never need invisible extremely hard to detect missiles to kill dreads. Most dreads don't have heavy pd on the rear and sides....just mostly in the front. It all depends on where you launch missiles from and the other pilots skill during battle in adjusting their sides to best distribute pd.
A UGTO Missile Cruiser can hit even siphons! Why? 8 missiles and on top of that if a siphon is firing on another ship or if your missiles come in at its rear it'll bypass most of the pd and slam into it.
This goes to show that having extremely hard to detect/buggy missiles that don't get detected often when they should (-2.5 sig vs 30+ sig inducing eccm from multiple ships) are not needed to actually deal damage with missile ships and honestly only imbalance the game because the difficulty of detecting them was so great that it caused their average dps to excel above all other missiles and weapons.(missiles do massive damage)
It's quite obvious that no weapon in this entire game is supposed to wreck things that much unless it has a flaw.(siphons running out of energy close up and taking fire as an example)
Also even if their easier to detect now not all ships have eccm so the missiles will still have some targets their good against without needing to fire on exposed sides of enemy ships.
I do believe ganglia for certain have a rather not so far out min range on missiles. Could always just approach the rear of a dread while cloaked in battle and near min range uncloak and let loose. The dreads just cant turn fast enough so if a dread ventures away from the pack even for a moment it can be deadly.
[ This Message was edited by: rykros1987 on 2012-12-24 12:22 ]
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Hakketak
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 24, 2009
Posts: 301
| Posted: 2012-12-26 05:19
edit: nvm misread from/to signal dif
[ This Message was edited by: Ubawaus on 2012-12-27 03:27 ]
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DiepLuc
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 23, 2010
Posts: 1187
| Posted: 2012-12-26 08:11
Quote:
| On 2012-12-23 12:27, Pantheon wrote:
I've just changed the natural signature of the Shroud Missile to -0.5 from -2.5. Changed should go into beta whenever a build next goes out. |
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Quite logical.
Technically, a single ECCM can't raise -2.5 to positive signature. But it's possible to do so in -0.5 case.
A ship without ECCM is still vulnerable to Shroud.
A quick comparison between shroud and psionic
- maxDamage: 500 + ( LEVEL * 1650 )
- energyCost: 800 + ( LEVEL * 400 )
- energyCharge: 8 + ( LEVEL * 1 )
- projectileVelocity: 100.0
- damage: 250 + ( LEVEL * 1350 )
- damageRandom: 250 + ( LEVEL * 1350 )
- areaDamage: 250 + ( LEVEL * 1350 )
- areaDamageRandom: 250 + ( LEVEL * 1350 )
- areaDamageRadius: 10.0 + ( LEVEL * 1.5 )
- maxDamage: 500 + ( LEVEL * 1500 )
- energyCost: 300 + ( LEVEL * 900 )
- energyCharge: 8 + ( LEVEL * 2 )
- projectileVelocity: 115.0
- damage: LEVEL * 1900
- damageRandom: LEVEL * 1900
- areaDamage: LEVEL * 1900
- areaDamageRandom: LEVEL * 1900
- areaDamageRadius: 8.0 + ( LEVEL * 1.25 )
Changing from -2.5 to -0.5 is not a nerf of shroud. It brings shroud closer to psionic. ATM, shroud is superior to psionic. In practice, I think shroud's negative signature make it the most fantastic missle in game.
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-12-30 19:47
if the devs dont bring in an emergency patch update for these shroud issues then you are going to lose lots of players! Dont leave it till its too late.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2012-12-30 20:48
dont dramatise too much,
its been a while since missiles were like that, and took a while enough for people to notice that. Dev already said they were on it. give them time, its the holidays
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Two Face
Marshal
Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 145
| Posted: 2012-12-30 21:07
Quote:
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On 2012-12-30 20:48, Zero28 wrote:
dont dramatise too much,
its been a while since missiles were like that, and took a while enough for people to notice that. Dev already said they were on it. give them time, its the holidays
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Zero if it wasnt me that posted my above post i bet you wouldnt of said anything.
You also login and play about once every 2 weeks compared to my everyday, so you should be able to see where mine and others frustration is coming from because i certainly can understand where your non frustration is is not coming from..
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2012-12-30 21:16
Quote:
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On 2012-12-30 19:47, *Two Face* wrote:
if the devs dont bring in an emergency patch update for these shroud issues then you are going to lose lots of players! Dont leave it till its too late.
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You complain abt ECCM not working, and yet just a few hours back, Ken2228, Bladerunner and yourself built a number of sensor plats ard a planet and used that (along w a Covert Op Scout) to successfully persecute and destroy -Schweinhund- in his Mandi.
The area was so saturated with ECCM that he ran out of energy while cloaked and got beaconed and died.
ECCM works. The problem is your usage of it. I see ICC players automatically building sensor plats around planets when they know Kluth are afoot, and not regularly QQ abt how they can't see in the dark.
Next, when i decloaked next to you and alpha'ed you into oblivion, the first thing you said to me was that Kluth can now kill you while cloaked. LOL. This clearly shows that you have some kind of latency issue going on.
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