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More 1.481 Fixes... |
Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
|  Posted: 2004-03-04 15:23
I agree, SY's are just a modified Gate System. Ask yourself what is a Shipyard? Thats Easy its where you Make ships. Not travel from place to place.
Once a Player has Spawned From Either Gate or SY, Thats where THEY ARE. They can either pull out a new Ship from that Yard or Spawn back at the ICC gate. AS simple as that. SYs shouldnt be thought of as a Gate system.
unfortunatly people would probably log to choose a new yard.
So probably people shouldnt be able to Spawn from The Yards All together, they can make new Ships but cant use these as a system of Travel.
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2004-03-04 15:26
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On 2004-03-04 15:23, Vicious wrote:
So probably people shouldnt be able to Spawn from The Yards All together, they can make new Ships but cant use these as a system of Travel.
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Interesting point. maybe ...
now here is an idea.
a planet-supported WH generator. there are many possibilities how this could be implemented.
that might actually be a really elegant solution.
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AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
| Posted: 2004-03-04 16:02
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On 2004-03-04 15:26, Kamikaze Baron von Richthofen wrote:
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On 2004-03-04 15:23, Vicious wrote:
So probably people shouldnt be able to Spawn from The Yards All together, they can make new Ships but cant use these as a system of Travel.
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Interesting point. maybe ...
now here is an idea.
a planet-supported WH generator. there are many possibilities how this could be implemented.
that might actually be a really elegant solution.
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The problem with that is people already want to nerf the wormhole-supported ships. They are already ready to take off the engines of the station and make it completly station. What the hell is it supposed to do 1000 gu from a planet?
With only 12 inf, it isn''t viable to cap anymore, at least without numbers, and theycan't really reload effectively with the numbers of reloads that they(ICC, UGTO, and K'Luth) that they have. So what would be the point of stations after that? Sorry, a bit off topic.
Anywho, I'd vote "no" to a wormhole dictor device, seeing as how WHs are all that common anyway (not all ships have them).
Bito
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Therax Anrak
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: February 07, 2004
Posts: 11
| Posted: 2004-03-04 16:38
How about an idea stolen from Space Empires 3, a turn-based space strategy game? In that game, when you spend the resources on a ship, the ship is created in orbit around the planet, but with all components onboard inoperable (in damaged status). This makes the ship vulnerable and easy to destroy, and cannot be used until it has been "constructed," i.e. all components have been repaired. It reflects that the construction of a starship is a long, arduous process involving orbital shipyards, even after the basic resources have been assembled.
I can see this working in DS is that any ship spawned from a shipyard (whether a new ship or one from the garage) spawns in orbit with 10% hull remaining and 90% damage to all devices, and all devices discharged. Then make the shipyard act as an advanced depot (they should act like one anyway -- they have all the facilities for ship construction and repair). Thus any ship spawned would have to sit in orbit, being "constructed"/reparied before being able to engage in operations, and simultaneously vulnerable to any enemy ships blockading the planet.
We can experiment with the specifics, i.e. start with full hull, but no systems, so you're a sitting duck, or start with full systems, but minimal hull, so that you're very vulnerable but at least have a chance to defend yourself or jump away from the planet.
Thoughts?
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Ceridan
Cadet
Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 608
From: Canada
| Posted: 2004-03-04 17:22
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On 2004-03-04 14:42, IceMECH wrote:
On the Shipyard issue, how about preventing ships from entering a shipyard when there are enemy contacts with in some distance, say 1000gu.
It would allow defenders to come to the aid of the planet quickly, however would keep them from using the shipyard to escape distruction or as a quick means of transfering troops.
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Good Idea, but I would add that as long as there is nmy infatry on the SY planet, no one could spawn from that planet.
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stuck in Univercity limbo
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Lith Ragond
Cadet
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 25, 2001
Posts: 1854
| Posted: 2004-03-04 17:51
if you dock at a shipyard, your ship SHOULD stay there. and if this is the case, then when you click on a ship, you DEFINENTLY need a screen which tells you what system and planet that ship is at. also, if this is the case, we need LARGER ship garages! and ALSO, if this is the case... then if we log in a ship, then it makes sense that that ship will stay at the spot you logged out from. you really cant have one without the other, it just wouldnt make sense that way.
for the eventuality that the planet which your ship is stored at is taken, i can only see 1 of 2 things happening: 1) the ship goes bye-bye 2) the ship goes to the faction gate.
anyway, that's my input.
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RagAnok
Admiral
Joined: February 02, 2004
Posts: 237
| Posted: 2004-03-04 18:25
whether a new ship or one from the garage) spawns in orbit with 10% hull remaining and 90% damage to all devices, and all devices discharged. Then make the shipyard act as an advanced depot (they should act like one anyway -- they have all the facilities for ship construction and repair). Thus any ship spawned would have to sit in orbit, being "constructed"/reparied before being able to engage in operations, and simultaneously vulnerable to any enemy ships blockading the planet.
i think this a good idea
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Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
| Posted: 2004-03-04 18:52
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On 2004-03-04 10:09, Faustus wrote:
- Defense bases are using way too much CPU. I had no ideal how many would get built, I think at last count we had over 1000+ defense bases in the metaverse. 1/2 of them defense base III's, each with 3 missiles, 3 beams, and 1 cannon type weapon. Anyway, most of the CPU time is being used updating all these defense bases currently. I'm optimizing the code for defense bases so they will use MUCH LESS CPU time, and much less bandwidth when firing their weapons (currently, a Verb for each weapon used is fired, I can bring this down to 1 verb to fire all weapons).
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I think the easiest solution would be to add the option to replace fighters, missiles, cannons, and possibly beams with 2D sprites. THat'd clear out plenty of polygon room for even my defunct PC  .
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DangerBabe
Cadet
Joined: December 21, 2002
Posts: 429
From: Charlotte, NC
| Posted: 2004-03-04 20:42
I prefer the "you can't spawn at a planet under attack" option because I like being able to use the SY's as a gate system. The tech-level ideas about planets only being able to produce ships relative to it's tech/resources levels are good as well.
I don't care for the "ship you docked/spawned at a SY is only available at that SY" idea. That would be a pain if you wanted your modded cruiser or dread and it's sitting in a SY halfway across the MV, because when you took it out, you'd have to jump or WH to wherever you needed it.
I REALLY don't like the "SY spawns a damaged ship" idea. Why even have the SY spawn if that was the case. I'd rather jump to my destination for 5 minutes (get up and stretch my legs) than sit there unable to move and/or fight for several minutes.
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[ This Message was edited by: DangerBabe on 2004-03-04 20:43 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2004-03-04 21:04
I like the simple timed queue idea, and of course the proper tech idea.
But I wouldn't try to limit shipyard use too much! Just those two ideas alone should suffice.
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Chubba
Grand Admiral
Joined: April 29, 2003
Posts: 293
From: Australia
| Posted: 2004-03-04 21:05
Well i just joined the server and my computer restarts....
done it 2 times how...
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Hitman23
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 22, 2002
Posts: 585
From: WoW
| Posted: 2004-03-04 21:08
I would have to agree with the "cannot spawn from a SY when the planet is under attack" idea.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2004-03-04 21:33
Just a suggestion, for cleaning up the lag some... Fighter formations....
Instead of buzzing around merrily exploding, perhaps every 5 fighters launched could form up into a loose delta formation, which would probably neaten things up in terms of server lag... if you have shoddy graphics... well too bad 
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2004-03-04 22:02
Suggested solution: A ship that is stored at a Shipyard STAYS at that shipyard. It cannot be accessed from any other shipyard or the home gate, just that planet. We would *probably* have to give each player a seperate 6-ship storage for each Shipyard.
As a bonus, this would eliminate another exploit that Vinco pointed out (endlessly spawning transports to reinforce a planet's infantry and/or population). If we make infantry require population to train, then any ship built at a shipyard that has troops by default (Transports, Command Dreads, etc) will use up population on the planet it is built. Ships spawned at the gate, that create their infantry out of thin air, would have to travel to the planet and be vulnerable to attack.
Even better, when Shipyards are eventually represented as an orbital structure (as I believe Gideon is working on), we could have ships that are stored there remain in-game (and hence vulnerable to enemy raids).
Edit: - Another thought...perhaps we could have several levels of Shipyard, which can both A: build increasingly larger ships, and B: store more ships and bigger ships in their docks.
Say a Minor Shipyard can build non-combat ships, Scouts, and Destroyers. It can store up to 18 ships of those sizes total.
A Major Shipyard could build Cruisers, and would store upwards of 36 ships.
A Capital Shipyard could build Dreads and Stations, and would store 64 of any size.
...this is going to tie into one of my ideas that won't die, but we COULD theoretically have a Shipyard's storage be available to ANYONE. Hence, one player stores a Destroyer there, a different one can take it out (provided they have sufficient rank). Players could lock access to a ship based on rank and clan ownership. Heck, we could even have SHIPYARDS on a clan-owned planet be clan-only...
And to ensure that nobody loses track of their ship amongst all the identical ones, we could give ships individual names, instead of identyfing them by who is flying them.
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Therax Anrak
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: February 07, 2004
Posts: 11
| Posted: 2004-03-04 22:38
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I REALLY don't like the "SY spawns a damaged ship" idea. Why even have the SY spawn if that was the case. I'd rather jump to my destination for 5 minutes (get up and stretch my legs) than sit there unable to move and/or fight for several minutes.
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There are a number of benefits. You still don't have to fly all the way from the gate. If the front is 8 systems away from your homeworld, that's a lot more than 5 minutes you'd spend in transit, so a shipyard still helps you out there.
Really, it embodies all of the other suggestions for eliminating the problem where ships instantly spawn to the defense of a world under siege:
- We don't lose the shipyard ability to move across the universe, as long as your destination is safe from enemy activity.
- It institutes a time-delay, based on the size class of the ship and how long it takes to reconstruct, not based on distance. This gives another concrete incentive to fly smaller ships: they're combat-ready much faster than the larger ones.
- It prevents spawning at a world under enemy siege, although you can still risk it and hope your depots/supplies keep up with the damage the enemy can deal out.
- You can easily have multiple levels of shipyard worlds. More advanced SY worlds could sacrifice defense for additional depots. This would speed the repair process and in effect reduce the time-delay required to spawn to that world.
In addition we get other benefits. It removes the problem where you kill an enemy station, only to see him spawn a new one immediately from a shipyard without sparing a breath, even another shipyard that is secure and not under attack. This improves realism by reducing the idea that ships are throwaway items, easily replaced.
It also improves realism and the sense of immersion. We would be able to see ships under construction. Doesn't it bother you at least a little bit to see a Dread flying out of the surface of a planet that the Dread is easily half as big as? If shipyards really are going to orbital structures in the future, this proposal gives us most of the gameplay benefits without much in the way of engine overhauls.
Really, it wouldn't take much coding either.
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