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Questions to consider for rework of Stations |
Ascension(Purge)
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2003
Posts: 194
|  Posted: 2004-05-03 13:26
[quote]
On 2004-05-02 07:48, Darksworde wrote:
So, I would like to see an increase in the number of reload slots on a station by 1 or 2, meaning turnover of friendly ships is quicker. Secondly, an increase in the number of drones, maybe to say 5000 or 10000, or the ability for supply ships to transfer drones to a station, providing a supply chain , maybe.
(Infinate drones...the thing is a moving planet shouldnt it have infinate?)
3) What about the ability to defend itself
As a support ship, a station should automatically be regarded as having defensive weaponry, not offensive, which immediately narrows down the types of weapons it can have. Torpedoes, for instance, I view as offensive, so in my view, it should lose its capability to hold these.
(I agree!  )
4) Should a station use primarily Missiles with PD Beams (Like a planet), or scrap the idea of long range weaponry and devote itself to Hvy Beams only.
(Well...no...errrr...this one is kinda hard to answer.)
Removing missiles and giving the station hvy beams only (lets say 15) now changes the enemy view of a station. At close range, the station now has the ability to incinerate most ships in 1 or 2 alphas. When attacked by long range weapons such as missiles, the Station now has the defensive ability to deal with a large number of fighters.
Finally, Increasing the range of its hvy beam weapons to say 400/500gu would provide a good way of putting the fear of god into torp based ships. Of course, a need for balance should be maintained.
(Maybe no, but a station HAS to be able to defend against torps, somehow)
5) Does a station really need to move?
Of course a station needs to move, without an ability to move, a station would not be able to provide support to a fleet in deep space. Of course, before the addition of Worm Holes, my suggestion in this area wouldnt have been practical. What I propose is that a station retains its ability to use worm holes, allowing itself to position in enemy territory, but loses its ability to move under engines. This essentially removes the ability to cap enemy planets totally, as Worm holes do not (correct me if im wrong) work within 2500gu of an enemy dictor.
(No movement at all, /station = stationary/ a wormhole should spawn just out of reach of a station and a station should select this wormhole and be able to increase its size. Therefore, the worm hole will pull the station in, when power to the wormhole is increased, and on the other side the station could stay, or increase the power again and return.)
6) Without being able to cap a planet, how can a station provide capping support?
With the loss of its movement rate of 5gu and an ability to drop inf onto an enemy planet with a dictor, I would like to see the maximum amount of infantry raised from 12 back to 20, or maybe even more, lets say 32. This means that a station can now fulfill its role in capping support by acting as an inf repository for transport and other such ships.
(Yes, a station should require other ships to cap. PS 32 inf is a good idea!)
7)What about Fighters, and, which type of fighters to use
Well, fighters are a bit of an issue. With the incoming types of fighter, namely attack, interceptor and bomber, we have to decide which type of fighters, and how many, can a station have.
(A station should be able to select which fighter type it wants for each slot. Considering its size a station would have all types.)
This all comes down to which type of station platform we choose. I believe that with a missile based station, the need for fighters is pointless, as the station would have enough long range weaponry.
(Well...maybe you can limit the types of fighters for each station.)
However, the second type of station, I believe needs some amount of fighter support, but with issues of balance, the more fighters you have, the less beam weapons you would need. A good balance I think would be say with 15 hvy beam weapons, the number of fighters on a station should around 3 or 4.
(How about 5-8, its a station, hence a place were others are meant to stay, repair, return and even start from)
8) On the subject of Wormholes
With the change in a stations layout, I think it is very important that the station also have the ability to close its own wormholes, else a station will have no chance of escaping from an enemy fleet. As of 1.481, the ability for an enemy fleet to follow a station through its escape wormhole means that using stations in large fleet is almost an act of suicide, a stations only possible means of escape being to wh to a friendly planet with a SY and then use it to disappear.
Of course, the other issue with worm holes is, with a reduced movement rate, some stations might not be able to enter a worm hole in time. I would also like to see an increase the amount of time that a worm hole stays open!
(I feel it would be best, if Worm Holes required energy for creation and maintanance and the station would select how long it would invest its energy in the wormhole, as I said before a station should be able to spike the ammount of energy it invests into the wormhole. Allowing its size to increase, pulling in the station and eliminating the need for speed /pun intended/.)
Well, Ive rattled on about this subject for long enough now...So, I open up the subject to other ppl. Please remember to remain constructive and explain your opinions, whether positive or negative. I think we would all like to see the station fulfill its role as a support ship, I know I would, and hopefully, this thread can go a fair way into pointing the developers in the right direction!
(Infinate reload, selectable fighter class, no engines, energy consuming wormholes, long range beams, missiles /maybe/ and 32 inf slots. Remember a station is stationary, and HUGE therefore it should have many features that prove it so, IE: Cant move, More fleet control, More slection, More infinates.)
(PS: THANK YOU FOR ONE OF THE BEST CONSTRUCTED, CONCISE AND BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN POSTS EVER!!!)
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[ This Message was edited by: Ascension(Purge) on 2004-05-03 13:37 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2004-05-03 13:31
First off, thanks for the good post; this is indeed the kind of feedback DS needs.
Here's a preliminary look at how we were considering changing the stations. Gideon might have more to share, but for now, here's a quick overview.
Some notes up front:
Figters is not specified at the moment; when we implement the different versions, we will likely change the specific layouts of the stations.
Also, this was made before the introduction of the wormhole device, and thus may be tweaked a bit due to the new gameplay dynamics.
This is really just to provide an overview of the layouts we were thinking of giving the stations.
Beams have different ranges based on their slot size. Heavy beams reach the farthest; light beams are short-ranged.
Armor/Shield values are also higher than our current version. In this case, heavy armor is almost 5 times the strength of our current heavy armor. Light armor is about on par with our current Heavy.
Weapons are spread evenly across the arcs, since it doesn't do to have a beast that large that can't defend itself from any direction.
Also, hull values will vary in the new version between factions. That is, Kluth hulls may well be weaker than UGTO hulls, which are weaker than ICC (subject to change and tweaking). Thus, even if armor amounts are the same, the actual defensive ability of the ship may be greater than it seems.
Kluth Station ("Hive")
Top speed - 8
Armor - 8
Point Defense Beams - 8
Medium/Heavy Beams - 8
Cannons - 4
Missiles - 8
Fighters - 8
Repairs - 2
Build
Tractor Beam
UGTO Station
Top Speed - 8
Armor - 12
Point Defense Beams - 8
Cannons - 8
Missiles - 8
Fighters - 8
Flux Wave
Repairs - 2
Build
Tractor Beam
ICC Station
Top Speed - 5
Armor/Shield - 12
Point Defense Beams - 12
Cannons - 8
Missiles - 4
Fighters - 8
Pulse Sheild
Repairs - 2
Build
Tractor Beam
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Ascension(Purge)
Admiral
Joined: March 04, 2003
Posts: 194
| Posted: 2004-05-03 13:47
Hey Dev team what you think about my idea of making Wormholes energy related, so that they cost energy to make and maintain, so that a station can control them tacticaly and if the station presses J button again, the WH disapears?
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Dempster
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 668
| Posted: 2004-05-03 13:53
could you explain why the icc station stays at 5 when ugto, kluth go to 8 ?
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2004-05-03 16:43
Quote:
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On 2004-05-03 13:53, Cap'n Jack S. wrote:
could you explain why the icc station stays at 5 when ugto, kluth go to 8 ?
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Is a typo. UGTO station top speed should read: 6
Also, keep in mind these are max speeds using level 1 IE drives. Results will vary with different drives and levels of technology.
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2004-05-03 16:52
Well thank you Dark and DEV for the reply but i still have 1 question that is perhpas not awnsered fully.
Quote:
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On 2004-05-02 07:48, Darksworde wrote:
2) How does a station provide combat support
The quickest answer to this is 'Supply'. At current however, regardless of faction, there is a limited number of uses to each reload, namely 1000 drones. The whole point behind a station when providing combat support is to act as a refueling/reloading centre, whether deep in enemy territory, or helping defend a planet.
So, I would like to see an increase in the number of reload slots on a station by 1 or 2, meaning turnover of friendly ships is quicker. Secondly, an increase in the number of drones, maybe to say 5000 or 10000, or the ability for supply ships to transfer drones to a station, providing a supply chain , maybe.
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now my question is this.
Currently the ICC S42 supply ship will have the same ammounts of reloads as the station.
this in turn will definately mean that the repair times will be virtually the same.
Dreadnoughts Hull values are going up last time i heard so im afraid that we will get stuck for 10-20 min repairing a ship to 100%.
now here is my question:
Will the station get some sort of Class 2 reload bay?
one that is perhaps 2-4x faster than the current ones.
i mean its a station the one thing that should be able to get a ship going again FAST or be able to supply fleets in a speedy way.
in no way would any faction let its top brick fail that much in such an critical area.
If you want i can easely come up whit some idea's for deversity in reload functions just gimme the word.
but im realy curious what the dev team is doing to improve this field of the station.
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Gideon
Cadet
Joined: September 14, 2001
Posts: 4604
From: Oregon, USA
| Posted: 2004-05-03 18:05
initially, the stations will come with 2 of the standard reload devices.
The option exists for us to make improved versions, for use on stations. However, we want to do this in small steps. First we want to see how our currently planed changes for stations work out. Then we can explore the possibility of enhanced repair devices, if it looks like we need that.
Otherwise, we risk changing too much, creating a balance issue, and not having a clear picture of what is causing the most trouble.
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AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
| Posted: 2004-05-03 22:34
While I agree that a stations needs a few more reloads than a heavy supply, in answering the question "How does a station provide anything more in support than a supply ship?" I would answer "Protection"
A wounded ship sitting under a station or getting chased will be much less likely to get chased by an enemy if that enemy has to face an alpha strike from a station.
Also, what is an ICC station going to do with *12* point defense beams?!
Bito
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Axianda The Royal
Fleet Admiral
Terra Squadron
Joined: November 20, 2001
Posts: 4273
From: Axianda
| Posted: 2004-05-04 07:31
Quote:
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On 2004-05-03 22:34, AdmBito wrote:
Also, what is an ICC station going to do with *12* point defense beams?!
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probably fight off the 3-5 carrier dreads fighter groups....
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42861
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 32
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2004-05-04 09:37
maybe fighters will be a bit toughter now and require 2-3 point defense hits to be destroyed:)
this would mean the more PD, the better:)
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Creeping Shadow
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 22, 2003
Posts: 261
| Posted: 2004-05-04 09:37
i've been reading bout the post and well i'm luving what the dev team comes up with ... good work great work
but one input if i may
wel we all know it'z pain to wait 20 min to get a dread up to 100% again with juz 2 reload .. so i have a suggestion
: station only -- ship who wish to be repaird will have to dock with station to be repaired... while in dock the ship lose all control untill it is undock -- and wel hanse this will allow u dev team to ravm up the repair reate for stations and will avoid abuse from players who will like to sit nex to a station being constantly repair and shooting ..
this will make stations actually stations and also stations will beat repair rate against heavy supply which makes sense .. in my view suply ship = combat support something like madic in the battle field and stations = hospital .. better facilities hance faster repair .. if u can't understand wel juz ask again but for now this is good enought .. feel free to haf constructive comment
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42861
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 32
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2004-05-04 09:52
I noticed stations will get missiles instead of torps. I'm really glad about this because missiles are more 'defensive' like planet defense.
One thing that would be nice though, is the possibillity to create different kinds of missiles.
for example:
-fast firing short-medium range missiles that have a fast fire-rate.(work a bit like the ar-missiles we have now, only more damage)
-slow firing, long range missiles that have quite some damage, large explosion radius, slow firerate
-the normal it-missiles
-prehaps an enhanced it-missile that has better tracking abbilities and lower signature, but slower firerate
just something that came up when i heard about the missiles:)
what do you think ?
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Creeping Shadow
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 22, 2003
Posts: 261
| Posted: 2004-05-04 09:55
wel just another idea dun't flame me oke .. anyway here goes .. how bout we eliminate normal drone slot in stations and wel default repair facility that mean for juz example oke ship 'john doe' is the only ship dock at station .. station will repair 'john doe' at the rate of 4 min .. now if another ship dock in station will repair both ship at once but at rate of 1/2 eatch ship and wel 3rd ship will make it 1/3 rd .. and maximum ship can be dock at station will be 3 .. and mind u stations fix may be 2 or 3 time faster then heavy supply so ya stall making a good speedy repair with 2 ship dock about 1 and a 1/2 time of heavy supply ... wel these numbers juz for explaination so may be we can work on it sum more but yehh ..
anywya one of the main dif will be if station have repair facility it will repair any ship which is dock , it'z like a drive in .. if u see a station n u r injured u go dock with it and ya'll be repair automatically the station owner dun't even need to press y anymore automatic repair to ship that r dock ..
and wel i guess to reload u can dock .. or if we stil prefer drone system we can haf like a reload drone for stations that reload ammo only ..
so haf a crack at it .. i've been playing for a while and wel this is what i would luv to c
thanx ya'll
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Puny
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 117
From: Gettysburg, PA
| Posted: 2004-05-04 15:09
I like the ideas!
I say remove all offensive weaponry, make it a huge supply ship of death. Having around 3-5 drone slots, it makes quick work of repairing an allied ship, but more than that, it takes on enemy ships with cannon slots (Railgun, Particle, Psi, etc..) and enemy projectiles with it's built in light beam weapons, but I think it should also contain 2-3 Really Really Heavy Beam Weapons, let's call them RlyHvy beams, think of them as CL8ks, capable of annihilating anything that comes near it, once. The CL8ks could have insane dmg to all forms of defense, but is unable to be put onto PD, and it's recharge time is unnaturally slow, and it has a slightly good targeting range.
My 2 credits.
-Puny
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42861
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 32
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2004-05-04 18:26
I like the thought of heavy beam weapons, but we have to keep it balanced.
No Uber beam that can destroy dreads in one shot please
Keep posting those good suggestions everyone
42861
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