| Author |
Prestige system problems (Long) |
Banshee
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: August 28, 2001
Posts: 2181
From: Philadelphia, PA
|  Posted: 2004-05-06 16:39
Had a rather interesting discussion with Gideon, AdmBito, Vinco, Sonlox and some other people in the lobby last night.
One of the topics raised was problems with the current prestige system, and the general concensus was that the only way to implement a new system which would be deemed appropriate, would be to wipe current player profiles, which everyone also agreed would lead to something along the lines of anarchy I.E. Impossible to do and justify.
Though the main arguments for the reset were:
1/ The current system is too 'Top Rank Heavy'
2/ Newer players were often left behind in the learning curve due to not having many peers to learn with/from, this is due to prestige being too easy to gain and rank advances being exceedingly rapid (Especially for the lower ranks).
based apon the simple reasoning that, a prestige system was implemented in the game by its developers, and people have paid hard earned cash to subscribe to a game using said prestige system. To then turn around and say "It's a mistake and isn't working how it is supposed to", and then reset users profiles (which they have been paying for) because a mis-judgement/mistake was made, is in the opinion of average Joe Bloggs, unacceptable, they should not be made to pay (Literally) for someone elses mistake/mis-judgement.
The first idea passed around was decreasing the amount of prestige each point of a certain action (For example, reducing 1 Ships Damaged to be equivalent of 2 prestige and not 3 prestige) and increase the prestige difference between ranks, with the possibility of adding a few new ones inbetween. This was also deemed a bad idea as players would be unhappy with loosing their current rank, even though keeping current prestige levels. Although it was noted that this would be preferable to a complete profile wipe.
(**NOTE** This has been done before, with reference to prestige gain decreased and rank requirements increased, along with 3 profile wipes I can physically remember, but it was done during the Beta phase of DarkSpace's development at which point our profiles were the property of Palestar and not our own)
After much too and fro'ing, I made a half serious suggestion about basing rank upon time with Darkspace.
The idea caught with various people in the lobby, and many suggestions were made as to how it would work, with the end result being something similar to this (not exactly though, as it was 6am and i was VERY tired)
The prestige system would still be in place as it is, to show a certain level of player achievement, but would no longer co-incide with player rank.
Instead a players rank would be determined by their time with the game, although not just the time the account has been around since creation (This could easily be exploited) but by physical time subscribed, halting again at the point at which your subscription ends, this would avoid futher exploitation of just subscribing the account for one month and then leaving it to build up.
An idea was then put forward that maybe there should be some sort of punitive rank decrease once a subscription ends, although your first month un-subscribed would be a 'freeze' period, during which time nothing would be altered, but then for every subsequent month you would be demoted one rank at a time.
This was deemed to be unfair towards people who genuinely are having issues and can no longer afford to pay for the game, or to those who must stop playing for a while due to RL commitments. It was put forward that the month long 'freezing' period would also be a month to allow a player to contact an Admin and explain their situation, although only certain/special circumstances would warrant a complete freeze on the players current rank, again, to prevent exploitation.
Finally there was a suggestion that, should you go inactive, and lose your rank, there could be the option of paying a small fee (Equal to 1 months subscription) to have your stats fully restored to the state they were in before the termination of the subscription.
Ok nearly at the end, I swear!
Rank Requirements (At a very preliminary stage) would be something like:
Midshipman - 0 Weeks
Ensign - 2 Weeks
2nd Lieutenant - 4Weeks
1st Lientenant - 6 Weeks
Lieutenant Commander - 8 Weeks
Commander - 10 Weeks
Captain - 12 Weeks
2nd Rear Admiral - 4 Months
1st Rear Admiral - 6 Months
Vice Admiral - 8 Months
Admiral - 10 Months
Fleet Admiral - 1 Year
Grand Admiral - 2 Years
This in my honest opinion is the time it should take to reach the ranks within the game system, and on average is just double the time it currently takes most players.
This would be benificial in many ways,
For newer players, there would be peers who would be in the same 'boat' they are, thus encouraging a little team-work and co-operation for survival.
It would reduce the 'Top Heavy Rank' system that is currently in place.
Ranks like Vice Admiral, Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and especially Grand Admiral, would no longer just be a prestige farmers wet dream, they would actually mean something,
both in respect that you have played a long time, and have a lot of experience, and that in return you would hold the highest ranks, be able to fly the Stations and Assault Dreadnought class ships, and the other 'Bonuses' to be implemented in the future.
Thi would be a Reward for long service, loyalty, and devotion (Such are the qualities looked for in men and women in todays armed forces around the world for such ranks), no longer merely a number and a fancy title.
Im not sure if this idea could work, but it does make a lot of sense, im expecting plenty of flames for this aswell, but that is life.
Feel free to comment.
_________________
The Rookery
[ This Message was edited by: Hirad Coldheart on 2004-05-06 16:47 ]
_________________
|
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2004-05-06 16:44
I like the timed idea VERY much. those seem perfect. More you play the more u gain rank ( very much like experience ).
But I dont aggree with the after 1 month u go down a rank :/.
But yeh the timed idea is a fricking mastermind.!
_________________
|
$yTHe {C?}
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: September 29, 2002
Posts: 1292
From: Arlington, VA
| Posted: 2004-05-06 17:13
Part of this IS a good idea...however...
This makes the prestige system based on time played, not skill. One could just sit and jump around a bit, and in a few weeks have decent ships for essentially doing nothing
All in all its a good idea, it just needs a bit of reworking 
_________________
|
Kaine Darkheart -SO-
Grand Admiral
Deicide
Joined: March 30, 2002
Posts: 458
From: Oshkosh, Wisconsin
| Posted: 2004-05-06 17:20
Quote:
|
On 2004-05-06 16:39, Hirad Coldheart wrote:
Rank Requirements (At a very preliminary stage) would be something like:
Midshipman - 0 Weeks
Ensign - 2 Weeks
2nd Lieutenant - 4Weeks
1st Lientenant - 6 Weeks
Lieutenant Commander - 8 Weeks
Commander - 10 Weeks
Captain - 12 Weeks
2nd Rear Admiral - 4 Months
1st Rear Admiral - 6 Months
Vice Admiral - 8 Months
Admiral - 10 Months
Fleet Admiral - 1 Year
Grand Admiral - 2 Years
|
|
Alright then....
/me log in date jan 01 2002 last log in date jan 1 2004 time played 0000001
rank: Grand admiral
umm not thinkin so and i know this is just a rough draft but... that kinda take earning away from press gain seeing as how as long as your loged in/subbed you wouldnt have to play
_________________
|
Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2004-05-06 17:22
Perhaps some kind of stat/time ratio system could be implemented?
In the armed services a skilled soldier will be promoted faster anyway.
The one thing I don't like is having your rank reduced. That shouldn't happen at all, but accounts SHOULD be deleted periodically, like every 6 months or so, if the user doesn't at least log in occasionally.
_________________
|
Sovereign
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 14, 2003
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2004-05-06 17:40
I like how prestige could be tied into time played/active. I think the prestige should be more influenced by skill than time though.
I say nay to dropping in rank after a month.
_________________
|
AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
| Posted: 2004-05-06 17:49
Who cares about your rank, you still have to get the badges for the ships...a Grand Admiral with no badges is up a creek without a paddle, and no row boat either.
_________________
Puppies gotta die, too.
|
Vinco
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: August 31, 2001
Posts: 939
From: Too Close for Comfort
| Posted: 2004-05-06 17:58
I agree with the badge system, and think that under this proposed prestige revamp, more badges should be added, and their need expanded. Virtually all specialized ships should require heavy badge stats, with some ships accessible only after a long and arduous effort at aiding your team.
_________________
Vinco
In Another Place
Honor is all.
|
Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2004-05-06 18:25
This is a very good idea with a small problem.
The rank decrease should not be implemented, instead, just freeze the stats as they are. Rank shouldn ot be taken away just because they unsubscribed.
But because of the timed thing, it makes the game better. People stop worrying "I dont want to lose prestige." and there willn o longer be competion of prestige.
I do also have one more beef with it though...
If I spent a Year and a half to get the rank im at now. It would all mean nothing because of this. Meaning that the people who have worked for the current rank they have, their time has been wasted. So it kinda makes conflicting issues.
Once again a great idea with lots of annoying problems...
-Ent
_________________
|
Banshee
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: August 28, 2001
Posts: 2181
From: Philadelphia, PA
| Posted: 2004-05-06 18:39
See thats the problem, prestige doesnt determine skill at all, you can sit in a supply for days on end, where is the skill in that?
And Ent, im in the same Boat, but the fact is, prestige means nothing, id keep Grand Admiral, ive been here 2 years 5 months subscribed, plus 4 months in beta, 2 years 9 Months, youve been here one and a half years, youd still be a Fleet Admiral.
The point put across by the Dev team is the old prestige system doesnt work and it needs to go.
Ive offered a solution here that wont see everyones profiles wiped, that will allow them to keep their current prestige... but nobody seems to have read that part.
Instead the biggest gripes are about losing prestige, which with this system you WONT, but with the Devs simplest answer, you WILL.
Maybe i didnt put that point across clear enough, but here it is in blue and black.
Hirad.
**EDIT** Quote:
| This makes the prestige system based on time played, not skill. One could just sit and jump around a bit, and in a few weeks have decent ships for essentially doing nothing
All in all its a good idea, it just needs a bit of reworking |
|
Prime example of what i mean, the prestige system would have nothing to do with time played, it also has nothing to do with skill (be it now or in the future)
Prestige would remain the same, as in you would still gain it, youd still gain bomber supply and combat points, but prestige would NOT Determine Ranks.
However the Active time with DarkSpace would, and like something else thats said, what is to stop someone logging in, subscribing, and leaving the account for two years?
Well ok, who is going to pay $10 a month for two years, thats $240, for absolutely nothing? sure they would come back and have a Grand Admiral Rank, but still wouldnt be able to fly anything better than say a Heavy Cruiser, why? because they havent put the effort in to work for the badges required.
I didnt post as much detail as i could have because the post took an hour as it was, but please dont assume i havent thought it through, if there is an aspect your unsure of, just ask, ill answer, if i hadnt considered it, i'll say as much and then figure something out for it 
_________________
The Rookery
[ This Message was edited by: Hirad Coldheart on 2004-05-06 18:49 ]
_________________
|
Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2004-05-06 21:08
I dont think rank based on subscribed time is good solution, time played would be better but I think the best solution should remain based on achievement i.e. prestige earnt.
However rather than a static table of value = rank DS could use a dynamic system.
Midshipman: <99%
Ensign: 98%-91%
2nd Lieutenant: 90-81%
1st Lieutenant: 80-71%
Lieutenant Commander: 70-61%
Commander: 60-51%
Captain: 50-41%
2nd Read Admiral: 40-31
1st Rear Admiral: 30-21%
Vice Admiral: 20-11%
Admiral: 9-6%
Fleet Admiral: 5-3%
Grand Admiral: 2%
These values are illustrative.
_________________
|
Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-05-06 21:49
bad idea wyke..... then if sopmeone stopped playing and someone else earned more pres theyd be demoted
_________________
|
42861
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 13, 2003
Posts: 32
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2004-05-06 23:40
What if you would calculate rank apart from total prestige. You can actually calculate a players skill like this:
take all the good things like:
Ships destroyed
Bonus prestige
Ships Damaged
Planets Damaged
Planets Captured
Repaired
Buildings constructed
Kamikaze
Jumps
Scout
and divide them by all the bad things like:
Deaths
Friendly fire
Self Destructs
Planet collisions
Resources lost
you would then get a value, and you can give ranks based on that value or maybe an average of total prestige and this value, so skill will play a part in the ranking system.
What do you think?
_________________
|
Banshee
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: August 28, 2001
Posts: 2181
From: Philadelphia, PA
| Posted: 2004-05-06 23:59
Pretty good thread right until the EvE player decided to get his two cents in, Hey piotr, do us all a favour, dont bother next time.
Really this is just something that arose from an idle discussion in the lobby and got a lot of interest, its now just here for general discussion amongst a wider audience.
_________________
|
Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-05-07 00:45
@42861
u have a good idea.
_________________
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
