| Author |
Large Fleet Tactics |
Icefox
Vice Admiral
Joined: September 29, 2004
Posts: 33
|  Posted: 2004-10-02 00:34
As an aside toward Captain Blue - Let's not be too cynical. Not all new players are completely clueless and/or unable/willing to learn. I think I did some good in MV today, and I've been learning a lot. Then again, I did beta back in the day, but I've forgotten just about everything.
[ This Message was edited by: Icefox on 2004-10-02 00:34 ]
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2004-10-02 07:42
Fleet Tactics are simple, actually.
Stick together.
Nax
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-10-02 10:17
incorrect nax.
in this context correct however. but i can think quite a few tactics where "spreading out" would be preferable.
also:
Quote:
| On a side note, Assault Scout is an oxymoron. You can't "assault" in a scout. "Assault" and "Scout" are mutually exclusive. Assault craft tend to be slow, and scouts are fast....
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let me correct you on a few points.
you can assault in a scout. the reason? assault doesnt mean powerfull. it just means assault. in the darkspace context theyve ruined the word assault.
right now if a combat dread and an EAD went head to head, you all know who would win. in real life however this wouldnt be the case.
a "Combat dread" one on one Should beat an EAD. but 10 EADs vs 10 Combat dreads the EADs would win.
why you say?
becuase Assault generally implies a "group assault". thats what EADs are good at killing in groups. the reason why darkspace has marred the word "assault" is becuase the combat dread really is no match for an assault dread.
what im getting at is this:
you can assault in a scout. you just need a few of them. because assault implies group.
Clearing up point number two. scout doesnt mean fast. thats usually assault (again darkspace has screwed this up).
why is assault fast? well how well will an assault go with the defenders having years to prepare....
oh ya scouts, scouts are secrative, invisible, and silent. hense thier size in darkspace (*few* they got it right.)
and while im bashing the ds teams desisions with names of ships..... FRIGATES ARE BIGGER THAN DESTROYERS..... but no. not in darkspace 
sorry guys you got that one backwards. (i mean hell even Lucas got it right )
anyways way to long post.
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Captain Blue
Cadet
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 69
From: Movieland
| Posted: 2004-10-02 12:22
Quote:
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On 2004-10-01 23:55, Axalon{Absolut} (Recruiting) wrote:
*sizzle* someone just got pwned 
Oh yeah, hate to be mean but get this thru your head: Frigates are useless in this version. Come 1.483, MAYBE frigates MIGHT serve as a sort of picketship/patrol. So please, even though you love frigates (and yet you use destroyers, hmm ) try and base your tactics on DS play, as opposed to morphing naval tactics. I don't want to be mean, but please try to think in a DS perspective, not a n00b-a-round.
The only way frigates are justified is if you shove that role into a n00b where frigs are all they can get.
On a side note, Assault Scout is an oxymoron. You can't "assault" in a scout. "Assault" and "Scout" are mutually exclusive. Assault craft tend to be slow, and scouts are fast. Its like saying you have a slow racecar...no...or a supersonic Mach 2 Jet Fighter that has a 400mph max speed. And besides, assault refers to ahem, dogfights. Scout vs. Dread = Laughter and one less scout.
The End
-Axalon
PS: Frigates = Zippy targets. Unless they move in "gaggles" you won't get much out of them.
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im gunna have to go along with axay with this one on the fact that some of the ship like the frigs are not cut out for the version of darksapce
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yah thats right
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DarkWard
Chief Marshal
Team Germany
Joined: November 25, 2001
Posts: 105
From: Switzerland
| Posted: 2004-10-02 13:17
My tactics for myself is doing the unexpected
For fleets it depens, quiet a bit on the fact of the "operation" one wants to achieve.
But generally it's a good advice that besides the main goal you always have some secondary targets. Staight attacks are only usefull if you outnumber the enemy (if there's any at all).
If there are many players on both sides it's a good idea to create various activities such as distraction attacks.
In any case however it's always a good tactics not to show the enemy your full force.
-DW
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Gannon291
Cadet
Joined: August 16, 2003
Posts: 17
| Posted: 2004-10-02 17:37
The reason I like frigs so much is thus: they have more firepower then anything else with their speed, and they have more speed then anyone else with their firepower.
Think about that.
As for my skills, I have played some in the MV, but the reason I suggest this stuff is because I'm a big time military historian. DS much resembles navel battles of WWII.
All of the following tactics are asuming you have a standered 20 ship fleet.
Basic Fleet movment: When moving a fleet always have scouts far ahead and frigates covering the other side of the fleets main body. This is because the frigs and scouts are fast enough to be recalled quickly should the picket spot another fleet or ship. When orbiting a planet have the main body near the planet, the frigs further out and the scouts at a few other planets that are near by, to warn of an incoming fleet. The supply ships should always be in the middle of the fleet, surrounded by the dreads and destroyers so they arn't quickly destroyed.
ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, send scouts out first, even when withdrawing from or entering a battle, you don't want your fleet rolling into a trap set by another.
Basic Fleet Combat Entry: When ever you spot an enamy fleet in a position where it would be good to attack, DO NOT JUST RUN INTO THE BATTLE! send the scouts out and search the area around the fleet, make sure what you have spotted is the entire force, and not just a decoy to pull your fleet out of hiding. Once you have determined it is not a trap, send the frigs and some destroyers in, to open a path and distract the larger ships and support vessles as they jump in. Once they are in they can focus firepower on one or two large enamy ships as the frigs and a couple of desteroyers distract the others. then systematicly work your way through the fleet till nothing remains.
Basic Fleet Combat Exit: during the battle keep your scouts out and looking to make sure no other enamies are coming, if they do then you may want to pull the fleet out. When you diside to retreat, then send the scouts to your fall back point and scout it out, make sure it is safe. then pull the larger ships out, as they have a higher sig and are easier to follow. As they are enrought have the frigs keep the other ships at bay then jump out themselves. Once you are out of the battle DO NOT STAY THERE, they will likly be searching for you. Make sure your inital fall back point is in the middle of nowhere. and From there you can jump to a more secure location.
Basic Fleet Trap setting: The easist way to set a trap is to find a planet/location to serve as the trigger area. scout it out, make sure its what you want, and make sure there is something that will draw the enamy out there, such as making a planet a fall back point for a small force that attacks and jumps to this point and stays there. Once the enamy fleet enters fully, don't attack right away, more may be coming, spring the trap. Ships should be waiting a good distance out of sensor range, but fast enough to be there quickly, and they should come from every direction at once. For traps Basic Fleet Combat Entry dosn't apply, it gives the other fleet too much warning, just jump the entire fleet in and slaughter them.
Questions are encouraged, but please be respectful or I won't answer, Thankyou.
_________________
Would Genaral Patton won if he just asked for the biggest tanks and simply charged in with no knowlage of what was there? No.
When you look at it strategicly, Dreds arn't always the best choice.
My favorite ship: Interseptor Frigate
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Wyke {ThorsHammer}
Cadet
Joined: February 22, 2003
Posts: 416
| Posted: 2004-10-02 20:16
Quote:
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On 2004-10-02 10:17, Meko wrote:
and while im bashing the ds teams desisions with names of ships..... FRIGATES ARE BIGGER THAN DESTROYERS..... but no. not in darkspace
sorry guys you got that one backwards. (i mean hell even Lucas got it right )
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IRL Frigate and Destroyer has nothing to do with size, it has to do with role, a Frigate is an escort vessel for other ships. A Destroyer is a offensive ship.
In early Navies, the frigate served as the scouts for the fleets ships of the line. In modern navies Frigate serve as either Air-Defense picket duty and/or Anti-Submarine-Warfare roles.
In early navies the Destroyer was typically a 3rd rate ship of the line used in back-water thearters.
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2004-10-02 23:17
um, okkkkkk.
I stick with my most basic premise of flying a fleet is to 'stick together'.
It's all about wingmen. Two ships together will survive more than a single ship, even against similar numbers. Players tend to try to pick off vulnerable targes...incremental reductions in enemy firepower.
Flying together fixes that...
Darkspace combat tends to be a little more similar to squadron level operations though....although the K'luth do love to play "Bait".
Nax
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AgentFritz
Fleet Admiral
Joined: August 23, 2001
Posts: 765
From: RAF Mildenhall, UK
| Posted: 2004-10-03 03:54
Large fleet tactics are things like what the Agents fleet did a long time ago. Hide right outside sensor range of a planet with all systems and ECM turned on, with a few ships near planet, wait for enemy fleet to jump in and engage, and then proceed to flank them.
I am sure ya remember that Banshee. That was back in the good old days
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2004-10-03 06:10
agent fritz if you like these kind of tactics, should consider dropping the sleepign giant and join raven.
and nax i wasnt trashin you i was just thinkin of "distractions" and bombing tactics.
And Wyke.
A Picket ship is obviously going to be slower and more powerfull than an assault ship. and an escort ship is also going to be more powerfull than an assault ship.
so you must agree with me size Does play a factor in the Role of a ship.
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Captain Blue
Cadet
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 69
From: Movieland
| Posted: 2004-10-03 08:41
Quote:
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On 2004-10-02 17:37, Gannon291 wrote:
The reason I like frigs so much is thus: they have more firepower then anything else with their speed, and they have more speed then anyone else with their firepower.
Think about that.
As for my skills, I have played some in the MV, but the reason I suggest this stuff is because I'm a big time military historian. DS much resembles navel battles of WWII.
All of the following tactics are asuming you have a standered 20 ship fleet.
Basic Fleet movment: When moving a fleet always have scouts far ahead and frigates covering the other side of the fleets main body. This is because the frigs and scouts are fast enough to be recalled quickly should the picket spot another fleet or ship. When orbiting a planet have the main body near the planet, the frigs further out and the scouts at a few other planets that are near by, to warn of an incoming fleet. The supply ships should always be in the middle of the fleet, surrounded by the dreads and destroyers so they arn't quickly destroyed.
ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, send scouts out first, even when withdrawing from or entering a battle, you don't want your fleet rolling into a trap set by another.
Basic Fleet Combat Entry: When ever you spot an enamy fleet in a position where it would be good to attack, DO NOT JUST RUN INTO THE BATTLE! send the scouts out and search the area around the fleet, make sure what you have spotted is the entire force, and not just a decoy to pull your fleet out of hiding. Once you have determined it is not a trap, send the frigs and some destroyers in, to open a path and distract the larger ships and support vessles as they jump in. Once they are in they can focus firepower on one or two large enamy ships as the frigs and a couple of desteroyers distract the others. then systematicly work your way through the fleet till nothing remains.
Basic Fleet Combat Exit: during the battle keep your scouts out and looking to make sure no other enamies are coming, if they do then you may want to pull the fleet out. When you diside to retreat, then send the scouts to your fall back point and scout it out, make sure it is safe. then pull the larger ships out, as they have a higher sig and are easier to follow. As they are enrought have the frigs keep the other ships at bay then jump out themselves. Once you are out of the battle DO NOT STAY THERE, they will likly be searching for you. Make sure your inital fall back point is in the middle of nowhere. and From there you can jump to a more secure location.
Basic Fleet Trap setting: The easist way to set a trap is to find a planet/location to serve as the trigger area. scout it out, make sure its what you want, and make sure there is something that will draw the enamy out there, such as making a planet a fall back point for a small force that attacks and jumps to this point and stays there. Once the enamy fleet enters fully, don't attack right away, more may be coming, spring the trap. Ships should be waiting a good distance out of sensor range, but fast enough to be there quickly, and they should come from every direction at once. For traps Basic Fleet Combat Entry dosn't apply, it gives the other fleet too much warning, just jump the entire fleet in and slaughter them.
Questions are encouraged, but please be respectful or I won't answer, Thankyou.
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hey gannon that is actually some good advice now maybe the ugto whont just sit around and be like what do we do no whats happening next and stuff like that.
_________________
yah thats right
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Captain Blue
Cadet
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 69
From: Movieland
| Posted: 2004-10-03 08:42
[ This Message was edited by: Captain Blue on 2004-10-03 08:43 ]
_________________
yah thats right
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Captain Blue
Cadet
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 69
From: Movieland
| Posted: 2004-10-03 08:43
Quote:
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On 2004-10-02 10:17, Meko wrote:
incorrect nax.
in this context correct however. but i can think quite a few tactics where "spreading out" would be preferable.
also:
Quote:
| On a side note, Assault Scout is an oxymoron. You can't "assault" in a scout. "Assault" and "Scout" are mutually exclusive. Assault craft tend to be slow, and scouts are fast....
|
|
let me correct you on a few points.
you can assault in a scout. the reason? assault doesnt mean powerfull. it just means assault. in the darkspace context theyve ruined the word assault.
right now if a combat dread and an EAD went head to head, you all know who would win. in real life however this wouldnt be the case.
a "Combat dread" one on one Should beat an EAD. but 10 EADs vs 10 Combat dreads the EADs would win.
why you say?
becuase Assault generally implies a "group assault". thats what EADs are good at killing in groups. the reason why darkspace has marred the word "assault" is becuase the combat dread really is no match for an assault dread.
what im getting at is this:
you can assault in a scout. you just need a few of them. because assault implies group.
Clearing up point number two. scout doesnt mean fast. thats usually assault (again darkspace has screwed this up).
why is assault fast? well how well will an assault go with the defenders having years to prepare....
oh ya scouts, scouts are secrative, invisible, and silent. hense thier size in darkspace (*few* they got it right.)
and while im bashing the ds teams desisions with names of ships..... FRIGATES ARE BIGGER THAN DESTROYERS..... but no. not in darkspace
sorry guys you got that one backwards. (i mean hell even Lucas got it right )
anyways way to long post.
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and also to comment on you Meko ummmmm yah i dont think you really no what your talking baout assault scouts suck even in large numbers they are defeintally not made for attacking
_________________
yah thats right
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Fatal Weden
Cadet
Joined: November 07, 2002
Posts: 33
From: Essex, UK
| Posted: 2004-10-26 11:10
Quote:
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On 2004-10-01 23:55, Axalon{Absolut-DSA} (Recruiting) wrote:
*sizzle* someone just got pwned
Oh yeah, hate to be mean but get this thru your head: Frigates are useless in this version. Come 1.483, MAYBE frigates MIGHT serve as a sort of picketship/patrol. So please, even though you love frigates (and yet you use destroyers, hmm ) try and base your tactics on DS play, as opposed to morphing naval tactics. I don't want to be mean, but please try to think in a DS perspective, not a n00b-a-round.
The only way frigates are justified is if you shove that role into a n00b where frigs are all they can get.
On a side note, Assault Scout is an oxymoron. You can't "assault" in a scout. "Assault" and "Scout" are mutually exclusive. Assault craft tend to be slow, and scouts are fast. Its like saying you have a slow racecar...no...or a supersonic Mach 2 Jet Fighter that has a 400mph max speed. And besides, assault refers to ahem, dogfights. Scout vs. Dread = Laughter and one less scout.
The End
-Axalon
PS: Frigates = Zippy targets. Unless they move in "gaggles" you won't get much out of them.
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A quick side note...
Isn't that a razor?
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Schakal*
Cadet
eXcellent Strategists
Joined: December 16, 2001
Posts: 664
| Posted: 2004-10-26 11:14
THis thread is 23 days old... why do you answer here oO ??
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You cannot win a war!
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