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Taking a Break |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2005-04-15 18:01
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On 2005-04-15 17:38, Azreal wrote:
As far as EAD vs Claw, sure the Claw is very manuverable, and I believe it carries as many torps as an EAD, but has pitiful armor. The EAD seems most effective with it's CL2K. Other than that, it's a battle for who get's who's armor first. I say it comes down to the pilots in each ship, and the tactics they choose. But I do not fear an EAD in my Claw.
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Thats the point, you arnt MEANT to be able to duke it out with an EAD in a destroyer.
*shakes head*
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-04-15 18:28
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On 2005-04-15 12:15, Lonectzn wrote:
Actually 'crucial fixes' was referring to things like flux/elf/ac, and not bugs/lag etc (sorry I wasn't very clear, chalk it up to haste). I understand the reasons for the rewrite, that's not my target. My point is exactly what you said: 'Once the low level code is complete, beta will be rolled out'. Waiting on this is balance changes that don't (or shouldn't) depend on it. Modifying ship module layouts and module types is not a one year project, but is being made that long. I'm not talking about new content, that I agree is much more efficiently done released with the new code. Sure it's also easier to do balance changes with it, but in the meantime the cost is a flawed game.
Perhaps you thought originally beta would not take so long, so decided to put the changes off to be released with beta. That would make sense if beta would be rolled out in 3-4 months.
tp://users.tpg.com.au/cody_h/garfield/garfield14.jpg[/img][/url]
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Unfortunately you missed the big point...
The tweaks can not be done... Its all ONE source code. There are different layers which we all work at, but it has to all be compiled at once... Hence while F works on the low end code, the Devs are tweaking and balancing the devices. Only F works on the low end code. The rest of us work on the upper level codes and gadgets. So nothing to do with balancing or tweaking is affecting or holding up the beta. In fact except a few minor tweaks, the balance portion is nearly finished... So its a matter of waiting for the low end optimizations to be completed and then we can push it out.
Then we can work on the fighter dogfight code and ai stuff in the next patch... We keep constant track of who is at what level of work and each portion is done in phases so that it can be closed out and pushed out should the low end code be at a recompile point without breaking anything.
The original focus for 1.483 was backend/low level optimization. We are just rolling in the upgrades and balance into it to save time. So technically 1.483 is the combination of two or three updates in one patch.
Because the code is all version controlled, there is no way to put out "tweaks" or "fixes" to a gadget without recompiling the whole code.
Beta and Release code bases are close to 70% different so completely incompatible. Thus to push out any minor "fixes" would actually set us back 8 to 10 months as we'd have to roll back everything to the state the game was a year ago.
If we used a database system for gadgets, then we'd be able to edit on the fly. Unfortunately that would also bring about a whole slew of other potential issues... So they are hard coded. Additional changes to the code are slotted for the next set of patches after 1.483 that will allow certain devs to immediately roll out certain types of content updates without a recompile. Such as changing minor gadget options, but any major changes to a device would still require code updates.
Hope that clears things up for you... The short answer is, it cant be done. We can not push out any short quick fixes to the release version.
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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2005-04-15 18:50
I do agree that the Wolf clan has been the far more fun one to fight against. 
It's mostly when [GER] and that last, tenacious [BIS] show up that things get annoying...
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize that those 3 individuals are what's doing most of the K'luth capping, scrapping and AC rushes... Humph.
I also agree that UGTO is way too friggin' disorganized. I'm trying to fix that, too. 
[ This Message was edited by: Bobamelius on 2005-04-15 18:51 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-04-15 18:57
with the exception of the Hive, no other kluth ships have better loadout than the destroyers. And destroyers are too supposed to be able to go against a dread. Maybe not single handedly, and I wouldn't do it personally. But as a part of a group? Destroyers definately have their place vs big ships.
Full torps and speed to nip away at the larger ship, while the Siphon does the muscle work. K'luth cruisers are nice, but the lack of full torp slots, just 2 of 7, is their downfall in this scenario. The Scarab is a psuedo exception, in that it does at least have a (golly gee) mine slot. 1. the only mine slot on any K'luth ships.
Siphons are the only real muscle ship we have when you break it right down. And not everyone likes to fly a slow semi armored energy sucking 'rupter platform. Like me. I hate dreads. Too slow. Siphons eat torps and crap lost prestige when I have 1.
I guess my point is, that vs other factions, sure, we have better dessies. From what I've seen, the UGTO has the best heavy combat, most armor. The ICC has the pulse weapons. We have cloak and some destroyers.
But it doesn't matter. As long as we have the AC, some folks won't stop crying.
They can use flux TCs and flux MDs, but we still have the AC.
They can COB and SY abuse, because after all, we still have the AC.
They stubbed their toe getting outa bed, all because we have the AC.
and I just have to say this;
IF YOU HATE THIS GAME SO BAD THEN LEAVE IT. IF YOU LOVE IT< DEAL WITH THE UPS AND DOWNS AND HAVE FUN.
This is a game. This is only a game. Had this been a REALITY SITUATION, you would NOT have been notified of your pwnage by the server. This concludes today's REALITY CHECK ALERT.
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Tikki
Cadet
Raven Warriors
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 132
From: Canuckistan
| Posted: 2005-04-15 20:03
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On 2005-04-15 18:57, Azreal wrote:
They can use flux TCs and flux MDs, but we still have the AC.
They can COB and SY abuse, because after all, we still have the AC.
They stubbed their toe getting outa bed, all because we have the AC.
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Flux boats, CoBing and SY abuse are very Richard Simmons no matter who does it, imo. But that stubbed toe still hurts.  *duck*
I will definatley agree, UGTO and ICC both lack some serious cooperation. Only reason I end up doing my own thing is because of the total lack of direction out there, and I'm no leader. I mean, I can... but I hate it. >.>
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Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-04-15 20:09
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On 2005-04-15 18:57, Azreal wrote:
They can use flux TCs and flux MDs, but we still have the AC.
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You can do that too (with every single ship you have above scouts).
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On 2005-04-15 18:57, Azreal wrote:
They can COB and SY abuse, because after all, we still have the AC.
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You can do that too.
Just to clear things up.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-04-15 20:17
gonna be a real fun game when we are reduced to modded out Extractors. Worse yet is if you only gave us that ship, and the ability to mod it the way we can now, we'd pwn your unimaginative selves right back into the lobby to cry over tractored milk.
And I'd still try too. Instead of sitting in lobby and crying. I'd still go into the MV, with my ittle bitty extractor, and i'd still try to defend my systems.
Shame is, ya'll don't have that excuse and still don't. Best dreads in the game and they still say they can't whip us.
Hmmmmmm. I see that there are 5 ugto in the lobby now. And twice as many ICC. Think I'm the only Kluth in lobby. I think I'll hit MV.
If you don't want your systems, I guess I'll take 'em.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-04-15 20:19
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On 2005-04-15 18:28, Tael wrote:
Because the code is all version controlled, there is no way to put out "tweaks" or "fixes" to a gadget without recompiling the whole code.
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Indeed I did miss the point. I naturally assumed you were using a database system for gadgets. So yeah, it's a real pity, but I can't see a much better way of doing it either. Know what? Now I don't want to see DS source...
Well there, I managed to learn a bit about DS and waste some staff's time. I consider that a good day
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-04-15 21:24
Holy flame war batman!
It seems a simple going away post has yet again gotten out of control, since it is NOT my thread, I cannot request a lock.
But I CAN spam Tael forever till he does, cause this is getting old quickly.
-Ent
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-04-16 02:30
imagine this
if the gamecode allowed this
switch the ac to ugto
and give kluth the ead
would be funny to see what would happen
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LOVE the smell of human flesh in the morning smells like MVictory
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-04-16 03:28
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On 2005-04-15 18:01, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Thats the point, you arnt MEANT to be able to duke it out with an EAD in a destroyer. |
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At the same time, I have been historically very successul with my Assault Destroyer against enemy dreads and cruisers. Granted, if I get within beam range, I don't last terribly long - but neither do the Kluth. And yes, I realize there is a difference in armaments... but I played for a few hours the other day without ever dying (nor in fact losing more than half my hull more than once) and I damaged a number of people on my own and assisted in the killing of a multitude of ships.
Does this make my ship unbalanced?
I'm not trying to say the AC or the Kluth Dessies aren't comparatively overpowered; however, factionally, I don't feel anybody is so far out of whack as to warrant the volume of bitching we get around here. But then... my viewpoint is a bit odd.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-04-16 06:41
Finally. What have been saying all along. Sure, we have a few ships that are better WITHIN their catagories. But just like Kluth dessies are powerful, the UGTO has that same advantage over all other dreads. The ICC has better cruisers than Kluth, but their dessies aren't too fearful.
There is a balance here. And just because you can't kill a ship in one alpha, doesn't mean you are being unbalanced. It means that your expectations are extremely unrealistic.
Take away our dessies, and replace them with nothing else that can do some damage, and Kluth is dead. Take away UGTO's dreads, they are equally in peril. And the ICC w/o the Assault Cruiser? Who would fly that faction?
Fact is, every faction has their "stable" ships, that you can expect to see often. Kluth not flying a Claw will happen when the other factions stop flying their best ships. Till then, stop your whinning. Find a new hobby.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-04-16 08:00
Just to kerb some thoughts I would like to point out that I have no problem with the claw, or any other ship for that matter barring the AC.
Nor do I have a problem with anyones tactics. So long as it's not exploiting bugs or otherwise violating RoC, it's fine by me. If you want to flux md, chain elf or sd AC that's ok, I can't reasonably expect people to not use a legal tactic just because someone may not like it. Personally I never fit flux except to fry inf, because I know it can be annoying. But I'm not about to try force my beliefs on everyone else. That's the motivation behind my original post - you can't blame people for taking advantage of what's available, but you can certainly try get rid of those options 
Unfortunately Tael has indicated there's no chance on fixing it earlier, so there is scarce any option but to just sit and wait. When you can't do anything about it, it's not worth stressing over. So for the moment I'd say this is quite closed.
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RedDoggy(1)
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: August 14, 2004
Posts: 118
From: Oregon
| Posted: 2005-04-16 14:39
""I'm sorry if you read all this and am wondering who the hell I am,""
Ya who the ____ R U?
Interesting thread you started here, hope you get back in the game. You may see me in there again if I can get some things/projects finished around here.
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