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planetary shields |
Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
|  Posted: 2005-04-19 14:27
Well Sleepin, since you don't play it get points, what does it matter if prestige gain is turned off? You just play it to have fun, right?
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-04-19 14:46
Do you have empirical evidence of past gaming companies shaping their games based upon your demands?
I'm sorry, but generally games are made by developers, and played by those who subscribe to the views of said developers. You're free to suggest changes to our game and they will be considered; you're also free to build your own game, or play another. We like having more people around here, so I don't prefer anyone to leave, but at the same time, we can't meet everyone's demands nor expect them to like what we do. C'est la vie.
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* [S.W]AdmBito @55321 Sent \"I dunno; the French had a few missteps. But they're on the right track, one headbutt at a time.\"
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Tikki
Cadet
Raven Warriors
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 132
From: Canuckistan
| Posted: 2005-04-19 16:07
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On 2005-04-18 04:18, Sleepin wrote:
Let's say you do turn off pres in Newb. Do you really believe that a Commander has a snowball's chance in Hell of surviving in the MV? I think not... but it's your game, do what you will.
[ This Message was edited by: Sleepin on 2005-04-18 04:20 ]
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Supply.
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I'm going to start wounding you now. I don't know when I'll stop.
Commander of the Missle Cruiser 'Nevermore'
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Sleepin
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 28
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2005-04-19 19:56
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On 2005-04-19 16:07, Tikki (Viking Kitten) wrote:
Supply.
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Tried that, Tikki... a supply ship is a juicy morsel indeed for an EAD. And you need much more than a Gold Supply Badge to make it in the MV.
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On 2005-04-19 14:27, Tbone wrote:
Well Sleepin, since you don't play it get points, what does it matter if prestige gain is turned off? You just play it to have fun, right?
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Actually, I said that I don't play for easy points. There is usually one, and most times more than one veteran on the other team. I usually find playing a scenario on the Newbie server quite challenging. If it were easy, I'd quickly get bored and wouldn't play at all. It's not that the MV is that much more difficult... just cumbersome.
I've been thinking quite a bit on this topic the past couple days, and I can't help but remember how it was when I logged on for the first time, fresh from the tutorial... man did I ever get owned those first few hours. I had zero clue what I was doing, and it seemed like the enemy were everywhere all at once. Slowly but surely I got better, but not because I was playing against newbies. I got better by watching and learning from the veterans. A couple of them took the time to chat with me for a bit,(thanks Destructor, Viet Minh, and Smokey) taught me a few of the core strategies, (cloud bombing, for instance) and helped me get over my newbieness  There were a few that just enjoyed eating me alive, but I expected that. They had the advantage, and they used that advantage as some will. As I got better, that advantage became smaller. I figured out how to protect myself, and eventually began beating them at their own game. But I digress... the point here is that, as a newbie, you don't learn from other newbies. You learn from veterans.
Mods,
I would suggest that if you don't want veterans beating up on newbies and discouraging them from playing (and paying), then perhaps a mod or two could log in and train them properly.
I knew what I was getting myself into when I first logged on. I knew I would get the crap beat outa me at first and I was ok with that. Some are not ok with that, and expect to instantly be able to play well, as unrealistic as that expectation is.
It's my opinion that penalizing a player for playing his/her preferred style of game (in my case the scenario based, small map style) discourages said player, and may cause him to stop playing (and paying). The MV is not for everyone, as the many many rants about the FA/GA server show.
Sorry for the long, long post.... I've been thinking quite alot about this
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2005-04-19 20:06
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On 2005-04-19 19:56, Sleepin wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-04-19 16:07, Tikki (Viking Kitten) wrote:
Supply.
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Tried that, Tikki... a supply ship is a juicy morsel indeed for an EAD. And you need much more than a Gold Supply Badge to make it in the MV.
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would this be a bad time to point out that i can (and regularly do) fly a engie around the mv like nobody's business? and make a healthy dose of pres at the same time? and dont die all that often?
[ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2005-04-19 20:08 ]
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Tikki
Cadet
Raven Warriors
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 132
From: Canuckistan
| Posted: 2005-04-19 20:13
I should point out that the pres you get from nabbing that gold supply should be more than enough to push you into cruisers.
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I'm going to start wounding you now. I don't know when I'll stop.
Commander of the Missle Cruiser 'Nevermore'
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Sleepin
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 28
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2005-04-19 21:09
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On 2005-04-19 20:13, Doran wrote:
would this be a bad time to point out that i can (and regularly do) fly a engie around the mv like nobody's business? and make a healthy dose of pres at the same time? and dont die all that often?
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Hehe no, not a bad time at all, and a good point. However, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the absolute best combat ship that you can fly as a K'luth Commander is a Scale class cruiser (I use K'luth just as an example here). It does require a Silver Combat Badge, which can possibly be attained on Newbie before you make Commander (I think I got mine around Captain/2nd RA though). Now, a Scale is a pretty tough ship, and could possibly hold it's own against a modded EAD or similar dread, in the right hands. However, as a newly minted Commander who may not be sure how to mod properly yet, and who may not realize the advantage that a cruiser has over a dread (speed, jumpdrive reset time, and rate of turn). You see what I'm getting at... just picture that nugget 500gu from an enemy controlled planet just as an EAD jumps in 50gu from him and starts wailing away... and it still takes more than a Gold Engineering Badge to survive in the MV
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On 2005-04-19 20:13, Tikki (Viking Kitten) wrote:
I should point out that the pres you get from nabbing that gold supply should be more than enough to push you into cruisers.
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And then some, Tikki. I would agree. I've actually done some supplying, and it was ok for awhile, I'm sure I'll do it again, but I think most want to experience all aspects of DS, including (especially?) combat.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-04-19 21:49
Whats a combat kluth ship got to do with a engineer?
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Sleepin
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 28
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2005-04-19 22:28
The point was, that you can't fly the better combat ships with just engineering and supply badges... so you're stuck with either engineering or supplying until you somehow manage to get enough combat under your belt to earn the badges for the better ships. Hard to get on the MV as a Commander, yes?
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-04-20 04:30
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Actually, I said that I don't play for easy points. There is usually one, and most times more than one veteran on the other team. I usually find playing a scenario on the Newbie server quite challenging. If it were easy, I'd quickly get bored and wouldn't play at all. It's not that the MV is that much more difficult... just cumbersome.
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I felt to step in here.
Quite challenging? Consider this.
Its newbie, is exactly that. For newbies, with newbies, doing newbie things. That isn't challenging, that easy pickings. And its very easily taken advantage of.
Newbies with no prior knowledge to the game, have absolutely no idea what glassing is. One single bomber frigate can easily come up, and nuke an enitre planet, just because they forgot the shield.
And even with a shield, a few veterens with bombers could easily take it down. This is the reason the limit is being put back on for prestige gain, because it can so easily be gained. Newbie can be easy gainings for those out there who wish to get prestige quickly, and effortlessly without the risk of losing much in return.
While my greatest sympathys to you and your endeavors into the MV, I can say fully that you need to live with it. Dieing in the MV is common, and its part of the game. If your in a smaller ship and you allow yourself to get CJed by an enourmous Dread, thats no ones fault but your own.
Supplys are going to be the first target because they help the bigger ships that many people try to kill. Bigger ships attract more attention. Destroyers (not on Kluth, and not a bomber) attract usually the least attention. Try those.
Sometimes things are tough, but remember if the rest of us had to work like mad in the MV for what you have, you need to accept that it is likely that you will need to as well.
Leave newbie to the newbs. They don't learn if you baby-walk them through everything, sometimes you need to get out there and let them find their own way, and its sometimes the best.
Note the sometimes, not always.
-Ent
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Tikki
Cadet
Raven Warriors
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 132
From: Canuckistan
| Posted: 2005-04-20 17:52
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On 2005-04-19 22:28, Sleepin wrote:
The point was, that you can't fly the better combat ships with just engineering and supply badges... so you're stuck with either engineering or supplying until you somehow manage to get enough combat under your belt to earn the badges for the better ships. Hard to get on the MV as a Commander, yes?
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Sorry, I need to point this out to you. Pulled straight from the manual. K'luth ship requirements. Dessies only.
5.18.3.3 Destroyers
Claw
Commander
Drainer
1st Lieutenant
Bronze Navigator
Shell
2nd Lieutenant
Stinger
1st Lieutenant
I think a commander can fly.... any of them. and we ALL know how effective the Claw is in combat. (read very)
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I'm going to start wounding you now. I don't know when I'll stop.
Commander of the Missle Cruiser 'Nevermore'
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Sleepin
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 28
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2005-04-20 19:10
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On 2005-04-20 17:52, Tikki (Viking Kitten) wrote:
Sorry, I need to point this out to you. Pulled straight from the manual. K'luth ship requirements. Dessies only.
5.18.3.3 Destroyers
Claw
Commander
Drainer
1st Lieutenant
Bronze Navigator
Shell
2nd Lieutenant
Stinger
1st Lieutenant
I think a commander can fly.... any of them. and we ALL know how effective the Claw is in combat. (read very)
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Correct Tikki, a Commander can fly all of those. How long do you think any of those ships would last against a dread? Not long enough to get any pres from flying it, that's for sure.
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Sleepin
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 17, 2005
Posts: 28
From: Tennessee
| Posted: 2005-04-20 19:33
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On 2005-04-20 04:30, Fleet Admiral Enterprise wrote:
Its newbie, is exactly that. For newbies, with newbies, doing newbie things. That isn't challenging, that easy pickings. And its very easily taken advantage of.
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Try playing on Newbie one night, I'm sure you'll see a mix of Nuggets and Veterans. After trying it, you may not find it challenging, you may even find it boring. I don't.
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Newbies with no prior knowledge to the game, have absolutely no idea what glassing is. One single bomber frigate can easily come up, and nuke an enitre planet, just because they forgot the shield.
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I learned how to defend a planet against cloud bombers by actually having to do it. I watched others defending against it and learned how. If no veterans played on Newbie, then the newbies would have no idea that flying into the bombs is the way to defend if you're UGTO or K'luth.
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And even with a shield, a few veterens with bombers could easily take it down. This is the reason the limit is being put back on for prestige gain, because it can so easily be gained. Newbie can be easy gainings for those out there who wish to get prestige quickly, and effortlessly without the risk of losing much in return.
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I have never, ever seen a 150% shielded planet damaged by bombs (unless the enemy is K'luth). It may have been done at one time, but it's not done now. The way it's done these days is to tranny rush once a few units have been pulled off. Most UGTO try to bomb and cap before the shields go up. You keep pointing out that it's easy to gain pres on Newbie. I encourage you to try it. If it's that easy for you, then you're several orders of magnitude better than I am.
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While my greatest sympathys to you and your endeavors into the MV, I can say fully that you need to live with it. Dieing in the MV is common, and its part of the game. If your in a smaller ship and you allow yourself to get CJed by an enourmous Dread, thats no ones fault but your own.
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No, I'm not willing to live with it, which is the whole point of these posts of mine. I don't mind dying, it's part of any war game, but dying multiple times with nothing to show for it is no fun at all. By the way, what is CJed?
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Supplys are going to be the first target because they help the bigger ships that many people try to kill. Bigger ships attract more attention. Destroyers (not on Kluth, and not a bomber) attract usually the least attention. Try those.
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I beg to differ with you here, supply ships are the first targets because they are easy pickings. Something you are opposed to, or so you say. I have tried the smaller ships, and believe me I go down first. 2 salvoes (3 tops) from a dread and I'm toast.
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Sometimes things are tough, but remember if the rest of us had to work like mad in the MV for what you have, you need to accept that it is likely that you will need to as well.
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I feel that I am working for every point I get. I do not make it a practice of targeting scout ships piloted by newbies. I usually don't even pilot a combat ship until the last 20 minutes or so in a scenario. Please do not include me in with those folks who you believe go to Newbie for easy pickings. You've never played with, or against me.
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Leave newbie to the newbs. They don't learn if you baby-walk them through everything, sometimes you need to get out there and let them find their own way, and its sometimes the best.
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So you really want them to get to the MV not knowing a thing? Come on... that's frustrating for everyone. There are strategies in DS that you can't learn by reading the manual, and running through a few scenarios.
[ This Message was edited by: Sleepin on 2005-04-20 19:35 ]
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Tikki
Cadet
Raven Warriors
Joined: March 10, 2005
Posts: 132
From: Canuckistan
| Posted: 2005-04-20 20:15
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On 2005-04-20 19:10, Sleepin wrote:
Correct Tikki, a Commander can fly all of those. How long do you think any of those ships would last against a dread? Not long enough to get any pres from flying it, that's for sure.
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You know, the Claw is a heavily used combat ship on the MV, right?
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I'm going to start wounding you now. I don't know when I'll stop.
Commander of the Missle Cruiser 'Nevermore'
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-04-20 20:15
First off...
Newbie was FINE, I might even go as far to say PERFECT before 1.481 came and pres-gain was enabled. Vets now go in there to just get stats or kill newbies, its not used for that. You are not a newbie, your VA for christ sakes, you dont need to go into newbie anymore, you shouldnt even be in there at commander level.
CJed = Closs Jumped, if your VA and didnt know that, that is your fault for going in newbie all the time. Your meant to move into the MV after commander rank and learn bigger things, not stay in there.
Also, the supply arguement? Not true.
The UGTO Heavy Supply and Kluth Ultimate Supply are some of the most leathal lower ranked ships you can get.
Self Supplied...
Heavy weaponry on both sides. (kluth have ruptors (which ARE powerfull on low level ships) and UGTO can mount sabots).
They also have their share of uber-ness. UGTO supply is quiet heavily armoured for a supply (hence the name), and can take on any destroyer easily, same for the kluth version, sneak and kill. Couple this with the ability to repair anyone on the field, with two reload bays, they are your first port of call to kill. They help emencly on the battle field, hence why they are first target.
A destroyer on teh other hand, will do ... what? 25-50% armour damage, im willing to let him do his bit, I dont mind, its experience for him. If the supply ship is following a bigger ship, the bigger ship is there to protect it, and its THEIR job to do so, so if that supply dies, its more your fault then theirs (ofcourse, if they are running off into 15 or so enemys, it isnt your fault). A destroyer can fight its own, doesnt need much backup (if any), and has more fire power to boot. I'd rather take a supply anyday over a destroyer, simply because of their value on the battlefield.
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