| Author |
a different take on lvl's |
Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
|  Posted: 2005-04-19 03:59
instead of striping ships for better parts (or redoing factorys to support lvl'ed equipment)...
crew xp...
as you gain pres the effectiveness of your ship incresses (armor, wepons, speed)... limate the lvl's to 3 (well 4 since since you start at lvl 0)...
im thinking 50pres for lvl 1, 100pres for lvl 2, 200pres for lvl 3... when your ship goes BOOM you start over again at lvl 0 with a new ship
you mod your ship the same way you do in the current version and as you use this ship its effectiveness incresses to reflect your crew improveing...
just an idea... talked with a few players to get thier take on the idea... it was liked so i put it to the comunity to voice what they think...
[ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2005-04-19 10:28 ]
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Captain_Savage
Cadet
Joined: September 30, 2003
Posts: 144
| Posted: 2005-04-20 22:54
that would really cut down of the SD's, methinks.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-04-20 23:15
Or you get shipyards to upgrade the parts like Tael and F have said all along.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-04-20 23:18
actually considering having parts put in the starport reset to level 0 to deter gate moding, either that or reset all stock ships to all level 0 items
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2005-04-20 23:26
I never understood the leveling sstem.. I could never get why the larger weapons simply weren't divided into seperate slots, for their class...
like small, med and large, and xtra large, and then the different weapon classes
I mean I think about it, why would you have level 8 guns that would be mounted on a heavy cruiser, or dreadnought capable of being installed on a scout?
Or, you could stick with being able to upgrade, via crew prestige, as this topic suggested, I think that's a great Idea
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Flagship: MCC-717: C.S.S Antaeus
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-04-21 01:59
crew has been discussed before but ruled out by F... I've been pushing for a crew system for over 2 years now...
The super strong weapons are broken up into different slots, ie, CL Standard and then CL Heavy... Since the CL Standard replaces the CL300 and CL500 which were interchangable, just as the CL1000 and CL2000 were (ie CLH) there is no difference between then and now...
It did get murkier when it came to torps, but the system still works by controlling the number of launcher slots...
The original concept for 1.483 did call for small, medium, large, assault slots for each class of device, beams and projectiles were seperate types. That called for over 35 distinctive slot classes. And virtually nullified any modding since you couldnt exchange a CL Medium for a RailGun Medium, or anything thing else really since there were no other medium beam weapons...
As stated before, to deter gate modding, we may consider either zeroing all stock ships to all level 0 items, or making it all items taken off your ship revert to level 0...
If you read the Dev log, you will see that we have put a priority on returning the mission system in the next patch after this so you have another way to earn money for modding...
1 level 8 torp in itself wont kill you, but 8 of them at once will do serious damage. So that scout with 1 level 8 torp stings, but its not a killer. Now if you get swarmed by 8 scouts with level 8 torps... now you have to watch out... Hmm, look another incentive for teamwork at lower ranks to take down bigger prey...
[ This Message was edited by: Tael on 2005-04-21 02:00 ]
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2005-04-21 12:48
Then we still need some way to upgrade ship weapons from 0. Having to pay to have them upgraded in a SY kind makes sense, but how do you do that?
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Flagship: MCC-717: C.S.S Antaeus
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2005-04-21 16:52
Tael, actually I WANT to add crews to the ships... so when you say I shot it down, nope I haven't.
-Richard
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NiteHawk
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 16, 2001
Posts: 209
From: Sag Hothha
| Posted: 2005-04-21 16:52
"As stated before, to deter gate modding, we may consider either zeroing all stock ships to all level 0 items, or making it all items taken off your ship revert to level 0... "
I like the idea that it rechanges to level 0 in a starport, not on a ship.
The starport is filling up TONS already. its gonna be a huge list that moves off the screen also.
But if you do it the ship way, it would stop people from ripping off things from bigger ships and putting them on little ones.
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Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
| Posted: 2005-05-27 01:17
If you could integrate the current level system and tie it into prestige gain for that ship, it could be an interesting way to level up a ship.
50 pres = + one level for all ship systems ie from 0 to level 1
100 pres = level 1 to 2
200 pres = level 2 to 3
up to 800 prestige for level 8
some items should max out here
Beyond level 8 requirements increase:
1000 prestige = level 9 to 10
1200 prestige = level 10 to 11
would make it an incentive to keep a ship alive.
also fun to stick someone with a green crew.
would need to have levels zero if item is removed from ship, so people dont use some higher prestige gaining ships to make higher level weapons.
on a unrelated note I think that any delay in aquiring planetary tech should be solely controlled by build time.Tech should level up as soon as tech building has been constructed.Current system seems to have a scenario type situation in mind, where a delay helps to prevent someone from gaining the upper hand too quickly.
I really find it hard to believe that citizens sent out to colonize a front line world wouldnt at least have an inkling on how some of the adavanced technologies an empire posessed function.Never mind planets with surviving population that up until a few minutes ago actually posessed that same technology.Building planets up needs a speed increase and perhaps a lower prestige gain for doing it or everyones prestige will be from building insta planets.
building recently glassed planets that have just been captured and still in the combat zone might make you wish for that level 15 build on your 2000 prestige engineer.
[small][ This Message was edited by: Lothar on 2005-05-27 01:36 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: Lothar on 2005-05-27 01:47 ]
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-05-27 13:18
I think it would be neat if upgrades were done by either an engineer or supply ship. We have subsystem targeting, so it'll be a simple case of giving an order which costs money, that creates a mission, that an engy or supply can fulfill and get payed for and prestige for.
More teamwork that way.
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-06-05 01:19
Not to derail from the idea of crews, but here's what I always thought levels were going to mean for DS.
Instead of the fixed levels 0 thru 10, how about a much more flexible and 'modable' system. Give the player the ability to upgrade each behaviour of a weapon separately, i.e. the power output, range, ammo, tracking, energy efficiency etc.
By simply right-clicking a component, you could increase each category. To keep it balanced, each component can only be upgraded by a fixed number, say 10. Once you've used them up, you can't mod it anymore.
Hmm, moving swiftly on...
By increasing the 'upgrade points' available to a player for bigger ships, you can create a simple stepping up of component power from frigate up to station.
Each upgrade should cost money, exponentially more money the higher you mod a behaviour. Maybe if crew were to be introduced, experienced crew could reduce the costs.
It could also only be done near depots and/or supply ships.
You could also allow players to upgrade empty storage slots, to specialize in life support or raw materials or for carry spare parts.
Every component type can be modded, and it wouldn't take many categories (5 or 6 per type) to allow modding of every behaviour there is.
The result of all this would be highly specialised ships and no two modded ships the same.
Of course, it creates a huge fudge factor in a far as balance is concerned and the current simple level system is probably better for achieving that balance. However, I'd love to see something like this when all the kinks are ironed out of the game.
Edit:
Just to add slightly; some of the behaviours are of course dependent on each other and others act as controls on that dependency. Take for instance a CL. It's 'Damage dealt' stat is dependant on its 'Recharge rate'. An increase in one leads directly to a decrease the other. Its control is 'Energy efficiency'.
In the current level system as I understand it, each increase leads to an increase in power at the expense of energy. This would (almost) be akin to using up all your upgrade points on 'Damage dealt' in my system. But it would be wiser to spend 5 on Damage and 5 on Energy efficiency.
You can see it creates a complex, three dimensional, mechanism for modding a component. A good player would need to know the weapon inside-out to get the best out of it.
In fact, by doing it this way, you can 'describe' the weapon in a much more sophisticated way.
Take for instance the current difference between AM torps and P torps; it’s a simple matter of one having more ammo but less power.
In this system, they can both have exactly the same power and ammo to start with, but the underlying relationships allow the AM torp to be modded for damage far easier (with respect to it's control and dependant) than the P torp. Likewise the P torp can be modded easier for Ammo.
With all these behaviours, you might think there are too many variables to display, but that's not the case. Here are some examples;
AM torp
Variable: Damage
Dependant: Ammo (assuming bigger torps=less room to store them)
Control: Efficiency (of the explosive process)
Variable: Muzzle Velocity
Dependant: Tracking
Control: Guidance Tech
So, 6 variables. There are others, like Range, but they can be left as constants. In fact, I think most can be reduced to 6 or less. So;
Fighter
Variable: Armour
Dependant: Speed
Control: Engine power
Variable: Damage done
Dependant: Ammo
Control: Efficiency
...
Yet another Edit to include a revised graphic.
[ This Message was edited by: c0ldfury on 2005-06-05 06:25 ]
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2005-06-05 01:46
Tael I dont think all class ships should be able to upgrade to level 8. scout should be level 1 ,Frigates level 2 and 3,Destroyers 4 and 5,Cruisers6 and 7 and Finally Dreads level 8.
This does 2 things.
1.It actually seperates the ship classes from each other.
2.It will force captains in smaller vessels to think twice before taking on larger ships.
This should apply to all forms of modding Armour weopons shields everything.
Why? you might ask. Well when a race is to the point of no modding planets it would be silly for a few scouts and frigates with level 8 weopons pwning stock cruisrs and dreads.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-06-05 02:38
That, coldfury, is pure brilliance.
I don't know that it'll show up any time soon, but it is undeniably brilliant. I look forward to a day when we could have something like that.
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c0ld
Midshipman
Joined: June 24, 2003
Posts: 342
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-06-05 07:43
Thanks Shig, but I'm pretty sure something similar has been suggested before.
Anyways as a late addition;
By changing 'Damage done' in the example of the AM torp to 'Mass' (which it is really), you can derive both Damage and Range as secondary variables by combining Mass and Velocity (spooky eh?)
So Damage = MVx, and
Range = V / Mx
Where x is a corrective number unque to that type of torp.
(or somthing like that)
The multiplier(x) for an AM torp would be larger than a F torp, making the damage greater and the range smaller.
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