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Assault Class Dreads rework collaboration thread |
Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
|  Posted: 2005-06-23 16:40
From watching the play issues for the heavy dreads (410, EAD, Siphon) I've created a second level dread ship framework.
Both dreads types will show the same in game and on the selection and Nav map screens. But now with device level limits we can limit the max level a device can be upgraded on any hull class. This left the Assault and Elite dread at a disadvantage compared to their standard dread class cousins.
Effective next code update and WOB update, the Following changes have been implemented.
Heavy Dreads have:
- Slightly greater mass than standard dreads (slower accelleration/deceleration).
- Higher weapon mount max levels than standard dreads
- Lower Special class 1 device level ratings (ie ecm and eccm)
- 10% increase in hull strength increase
- 10% increase in shield/armor multiplier
- 10% increase in cloaking energy cost
- 10 - 15% increase in cost, resources, and build time for ship (build times not implemented at this time)
- Can mount Core class weapons
A change that I have been mulling over and am unsure of at this time is removing its jump drive and instead equiping them with HMA's. The same jump drive option stations have... This would mean they would jump slower as well. But would have the ability to mount a wormhole device if they so desired.
This is where I am on the fence. My first idea called for on the Humans to have this option. This gives the human dreads an advantage by being able to bring the fleet with them to battle. The K'luth Dreads would have an advantage by using the older drives by having a faster jump speed, thus could out run the human assault class dreads. (Note again, only the 410, EAD, and Siphon are Assault Class dreads).
As of now they all use the old jump drive, but wonder whats peoples thoughts on giving them access to the HMA/Wormhole2 device but with a device upgrade limit of 0 or 1 (only stations could go higher).
If there is overwhelming support to try it i can code the changes tonight before my trip, if not, then I will leave the jump drives as is on these ships.
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Ospolos
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 31, 2004
Posts: 567
From: ON, CANADA
| Posted: 2005-06-23 17:11
Well if there is a difference in the ammount and lvl of mounting, id be ok with the HMA/WH idea. And since you stated so, it might be worth it.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-06-23 17:19
On 2005-06-23 16:40, Tael wrote:
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Both dreads types will show the same in game and on the selection and Nav map screens. But now with device level limits we can limit the max level a device can be upgraded on any hull class. This left the Assault and Elite dread at a disadvantage compared to their standard dread class cousins.
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Yeah, it made those dreadnoughts in particular useless in their role.
Quote:
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Effective next code update and WOB update, the Following changes have been implemented.
Heavy Dreads have:
- Slightly greater mass than standard dreads (slower accelleration/deceleration).
- Higher weapon mount max levels than standard dreads
- Lower Special class 1 device level ratings (ie ecm and eccm)
- 10% increase in hull strength increase
- 10% increase in shield/armor multiplier
- 10% increase in cloaking energy cost
- 10 - 15% increase in cost, resources, and build time for ship (build times not implemented at this time)
- Can mount Core class weapons
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It all sounds good, as its good balence of pros and cons.
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A change that I have been mulling over and am unsure of at this time is removing its jump drive and instead equiping them with HMA's. The same jump drive option stations have... This would mean they would jump slower as well. But would have the ability to mount a wormhole device if they so desired.
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I like this idea as well; this would allow people who perfer combat to allow WHing to places instantly to provide support, so I would go for this.
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This is where I am on the fence. My first idea called for on the Humans to have this option. This gives the human dreads an advantage by being able to bring the fleet with them to battle. The K'luth Dreads would have an advantage by using the older drives by having a faster jump speed, thus could out run the human assault class dreads. (Note again, only the 410, EAD, and Siphon are Assault Class dreads).
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This would coincide with K'luth being quick, strong first punch.
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As of now they all use the old jump drive, but wonder whats peoples thoughts on giving them access to the HMA/Wormhole2 device but with a device upgrade limit of 0 or 1 (only stations could go higher).
If there is overwhelming support to try it i can code the changes tonight before my trip, if not, then I will leave the jump drives as is on these ships.
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Put the HMA on it, and make us happy. 
On a side note hower.
There are other ships, that need fixes as well.
Take the CD (Command Dreadnought), the CC (Command Carrier) and the Gangila. They are Command ships without a purpose, however they need one. I think though, they would better fill the role with a HMA/WH device, along with many of these changes, because now their...useless fillers.
They need a Role..so we should give them one.
-Ent
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-23 17:20
My personal opinion is that you are giving a Dread that was supposed to be specialized more multi-tasking capability. Or rather, this is trying to put said ships at flagship status when they absolutly are not designed to be Flagships.
My point is: Assault-class Dreadnoughts are close-ranged, front-mounted bruisers. Pretty much brought out when there is a need for such ships (Such as breaking battlelines) and shelved for when there is not. They have no multipurpose combat capability.
With the arcs they currently have they have no capability of properly defending themselves in a fleet slugfest...
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Mithrandir
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 1276
| Posted: 2005-06-23 18:00
I think I'm with Red here.
They're not currently "Flagship" type ships; nothing really is. They're hard core fighting ships. This seems to mean, to me (and Red, it seems), that they would be just like the other combat ships, but more heavily armed and armored.
Make some other ship the Flagships, if we want them, and give them this option; the Command ships could potentially fill this role.. since they don't, after all, have many other roles to fulfill.
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-06-23 18:11
God forgive me but I'm going to agree with Ent on this one. Assault class ships have always been single purposed, to beat the snot outa the other guy. No frills, no fancy tricks, just a lot of raw firepower and the armor to take a few punches.
If you're going to make them tougher, with higher max levels, then that fits in with the role that they are given - assault.
I wholeheartedly agree, also, that HMA/WH2 should, if it is going to be mounted on a dreadnaught, become a luxary of the multiroled Command dreads. These ships are akin to 482 stations in that they do pack a bit of a punch that will tell smaller ships to keep there distance & show some respect, but not so much that you would want to take one to the front and slug it out with it. It should, however, be used to ferry troops, and supplies via WH - and since it doesn't have the power capabilities of a station the drawback is that when your WH/HMA is recharging, you've got to be very careful with your energy usage.
My $0.02 
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Bobamelius
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 2074
From: Ohio
| Posted: 2005-06-23 18:18
My opinion:
Leave the Assault dreads with JDs. If you're gonna give HMA's/WH gens to a dread, make it the command-class ones.
I like the other changes though, definitely.
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Ospolos
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 31, 2004
Posts: 567
From: ON, CANADA
| Posted: 2005-06-23 18:40
yes... **Looks both ways** (Flag ships with the WH/HMA drives to lead, transport and command battles >=D )
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-06-23 18:43
Pretty much uber ships of their class...
I dont like the HMA on them though, atall, doesnt fit their roll..doesnt fit it ATALL....
Just increase the armour etc, and increase the cost and accer/decel time. That way its pretty balanced
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-06-23 18:52 ]
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-06-23 18:57
ILIKE the idea of having Wh's on Assult Dreads, and the Changes that have been proposed. This Makes it easier when there arent as many people arround. Sorry Red, but man I really dont see ya in the MV, and when it comes right down to it there ARE alot Less people arround. We can wish in one hand and Crap in the Other .. Ill let you decide which FiLLs up first.
Having a WH option on a Command Class ship is Also a Good Idea, but not in the Sense of keeping the bombs on it.
[ This Message was edited by: CharAznable on 2005-06-23 21:17 ]
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Obiwan Kenobi
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 14, 2005
Posts: 99
From: Mooresboro , North Carolina United States
| Posted: 2005-06-23 19:01
i have to go with the rest of the pack here myself and say that the wh device should be on the command dreads and not the other classess. this does give the command dreads more use as like one of them said earlier it brings the rest of the fleet with it.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-06-23 19:02
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On 2005-06-23 19:01, I.B.B. Litany of Fury wrote:
i have to go with the rest of the pack here myself and say that the wh device should be on the command dreads and not the other classess. this does give the command dreads more use as like one of them said earlier it brings the rest of the fleet with it.
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All Tael is asking about is for the Assult Class.. not " The Other Classess".
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Feralwulf
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 24, 2004
Posts: 1729
From: sitting somewhere drinking beer
| Posted: 2005-06-23 20:07
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On 2005-06-23 19:02, CharAznable wrote:
All Tael is asking about is for the Assult Class.. not " The Other Classess".
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Actually Tael is asking for input on these Ideas for the Assault Class Dreads. One of those ideas is to give them the Worm Hole option. People seem to have (in giving their input) come to an agreement that a Worm Hole device option on a Dread is a good idea........just better for the Command Dreads than the Assault Class.
In that regard I must agree. I have always thought that the Command Class Dreads should have a WH device (rather than the Jump crusier and it alone)
The Assault Dreads should keep the JD.
I like all the other proposed changes to the Assault Class however.
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Don't mess with old dudes...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill!
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-06-23 20:23
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On 2005-06-23 20:07, Feralwulf wrote:
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On 2005-06-23 19:02, CharAznable wrote:
All Tael is asking about is for the Assult Class.. not " The Other Classess".
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Actually Tael is asking for input on these Ideas for the Assault Class Dreads. One of those ideas is to give them the Worm Hole option. People seem to have (in giving their input) come to an agreement that a Worm Hole device option on a Dread is a good idea........just better for the Command Dreads than the Assault Class.
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Thanks, but i dont think im the one that needed the synopsis here...
[ This Message was edited by: CharAznable on 2005-06-23 20:24 ]
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Feralwulf
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 24, 2004
Posts: 1729
From: sitting somewhere drinking beer
| Posted: 2005-06-23 22:16
Didn't mean it that way. I'm sorry.
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Don't mess with old dudes...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill!
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