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Assault Class Dreads rework collaboration thread |
Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
|  Posted: 2005-06-23 23:59
Reason I didnt want the HMA on the Command Dreads was because they should be quicker...
The other stuff was already implemented... The HMA/Wormhole was what I was really contemplating. For now I will leave it off the assaults.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-06-24 00:29
@Tael, I think it makes alot of Sense to atleast have the Option. now wether or not people use that option should be up to them.
I think it makes sense because these are Massive ships, Not to mention that when people will be LOCKED out of there ShipYards because of Enemy blockade, people are going to be Like .."Damn i wish i would have Voted for my EAD, Siphon, or AD to have that Option".
Not to beat a dead horse but how often do you see people in the MV pull out a station just to use the WH and then pop out another Ship to go through that WH..
Tael, as an ICC GA, I would gladly put together a ALL ICC petition for the AD to have this Ability.
-Charz
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Trekkie_zero
Cadet
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 146
From: A state with too many A\'s....
| Posted: 2005-06-24 02:06
I have to aggree assault class dreads should have the better armor and lower speed, the WH HMA option would be an awesome addition to them if you could use the HMA WH1 WH2 that would be pretty awesome.
I have to aggree with the other guys about the command ships too but its not what this thread is about.
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-24 02:31
I sat down and thought long and hard about it, posted my deliberations here... and read over the threads... And actually the command dread is the more logical choice.
The plan for the Command Dread is at a later date to give it a command and control screen. You can see quickly where your team mates are and their status, ie, health and armor, maybe even ammo % remaining. Then the command can task orders(read missions) to their team mates, direct supply resources to where they are more needed and plot multi pronged assaults on the Nav screen.
But that is way down the pipe. So for now a few minor changes have been made to give it a purpose again.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-06-24 03:53
Quote:
| The plan for the Command Dread is at a later date to give it a command and control screen. You can see quickly where your team mates are and their status, ie, health and armor, maybe even ammo % remaining. Then the command can task orders(read missions) to their team mates, direct supply resources to where they are more needed and plot multi pronged assaults on the Nav screen. |
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im wet.
with drool
ok i think i understand this. we will have the option of having EAD (reg) and EAD (heavy).
and alike for the other factions, but im a little confused in this.
this is why im confused. why would anyone choose the (reg) EAD over the heavy one? what are the advantages of having the regular one.
also, anyone wanna PM me what in the name of the holy chedder is a "core" weapon?
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-24 09:48
Tael, Right now while Wormhole seems a good idea for Command-level dreads, they need some form of battlefield purpose. Otherwise people would just pop em out, wormhole, than put them back into storage. Cause thats what the Jump Cruiser is in release right now.
Ive always imagined Command-level Dreads as being the flagships of the fleet. More expensive and tougher to kill than the average Dreadnought.
A new class (Yes, more dread classes, the current DRead2 just doesnt fit Command-style dreads, but is a step in the right direction)
Unless stated otherwise, all increases are from Dread1
Command Dreadnought
- Greater mass than standard dreads and slightly larger than even Heavy Dreads (slower accelleration/deceleration). Although mass increase from Heavy Dread to Command Dread may be insignificant or significant.
- Same Weapon Mount Max as Heavy Dreadnoughts (Toying with the idea of putting it between Dread2 and Dread1 however)
- A Complete reversal from normal policy, High-level Electronic Warfare devices (Specials) are mountable. Maybe in comparable strength to Scouts.
- 30% increase in hull strength
- 20% increase in shield/armor multiplier
- 20% increase in cloaking energy cost
- 20 - 25% increase in cost, resources, and build time for ship (build times not implemented at this time)
- 35 - 45% increase in rare resources, due to use of more advanced, expensive materials
- Does NOT Mount core-class weapons
- Maximum of One Build Device (No Reload)
- Arc-favorable, no matter which side you attack from, theres something scary pointing at you.
The UGTO Command Dread will mount a fair mix of Medium and heavy weaponry, designed to combat destroyers, cruisers, and dreadnoughts. Generally, this also makes them fairly nasty alone, but they are also expected to fight alone with the rest of the fleet on the front lines. In addition, the Command Dread will mount a decent amount of electronic warfare devices. (2 ECM, 2 ECCM, 1 Scanner)
The K'Luth Ganglia will mount more heavy weapons than medium or light weaponry. Typically these weapons would be more forward-mount favorable, but some side and rear protection will also be added in. The Kluth Ganglia will mount slightly more ECM than Human Dreads, no ECCM. (3 ECM, 0 ECCM, 1 Scanner)
Both configurations will have about three or four fighterbays
The ICC Command Carrier will mount a similiar configuration to the UGTO Command Dread, however, it will have fewer Light, Medium and Heavy weapons in favor of additional Fighterbays. However, it is not extreme in an attempt to retain multicombat capability. This only results in a marginal increase to 6 fighter bays rather than 4, it only sacrifices a small amount of weaponry in turn. (2 ECM, 2 ECCM, 1 Scanner)
All configurations will have a Heavy Special device, and a build.
ALL THREE SHIPS WILL BE UPPED TO FLEET ADMIRAL RANK WITH GOLD STAR REQUIRED.
[ This Message was edited by: RedXIII on 2005-06-24 10:00 ]
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-24 11:06
Command dreads are not being made uber...
In fact in most fleets IRL the command ships are NOT the biggest ships. The USS Blueridge is an Aegis class cruiser. Rather smaller than other ships of her class. Weapon load out is marginal and mainly defensive, but she has superior sensors and communication systems.
The command dread is simply a normal dread with different sensor and supportive rolls. So other than the HMA is not changing.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2005-06-24 13:03
Are device limitations being implemented on a ship by ship basis or a class by class basis?
The Assault Class idea sounds good. The WHD on them doesn't sound so great.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-06-24 17:14
This idea needs a real think about the energy on the ships. They effectivly lost more than 50% of their recharge rate because they now cant equip level 8 reactors, and are now stuck with 144.1 energy with all level 2 reactors. Not that bad I hear you say...The level 8 reactors gave far more energy per second than the level 2's, and at high speeds you will only get 6 alphas off before you are dead in the water.
In reflect of this, I think the assault class dreads should have a boost in energy somewhere around the x2 mark, since assault dreads are meant to 'assault' they need some speed to do that, probably more so than the other ships, and with the current setup...speed + assault do not work, not even half speed and assault work...
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-06-24 18:29
That sounds like a pretty uber build for a command dread.
Regardless.. the decision has already at least in part been made: Assault dreads keep their normal jump drive, but get the bonuses listed in the first post.
Command dreads have been slightly reworked, giving them the HMA instead of a standard jumpdrive, which then provides the option of mounting a WH device instead.
The lack of energy upgradability for the Assault dreads is an oversight, an a consequence of the upgrade limit being by gadget class rather than actual gadget. We'll work on a fix for that in the near future, but it won't make it into the stress test.
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-25 09:23
I looked over the current Command Carrier, and decided that I went overboard a little. Ill repost a general list of specifications.
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2005-06-25 10:00
Quote:
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On 2005-06-23 16:40, Tael wrote:
Lower Special class 1 device level ratings (ie ecm and eccm)
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this has spilled over into other dreads (acutally its spilled over to dessies and cruisers as well, and im sure several other classes are affected too)
ugto and icc formerly had upper level (4+) reactors and tractor beams available. im upwards of 95% sure i had had Reactor8s on my BD which now only has Reactor2, and 100% sure i had Reactor8s on my missile dreads. these devices seem to have completely disapeared and the only >L2 EW are on scouts..
now, being that the salt dreads are arguable the most power hungry (all those torp8s, SCL8s, HCLs and the super weapon, not to mention shields on icc and pulse/flux/cloak), it does not strike me as a particularly wise idea to restrict them to Reactor2..
likewise as most salt dreads will probably not be using more than one EW in a slot, if any, i dont see any reason that they shouldnt be able to install ECM4 or ECCM4
further more, command dreads (read: bomber dreads in the case of kluth/ugto) are liable to install upperlevel EW to maximize/minimize sig while still keeping a slot or two open for as large a reactor as possible to power not only their EW but their beams and any other misc weaponry
[small][ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2005-06-25 13:32 ][/small]
[ This Message was edited by: Doran on 2005-06-25 17:26 ]
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-25 10:31
YEah, I agree with you Doran... Command-level Dreads should have decent Electronic warfare.
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Mithrandir
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 1276
| Posted: 2005-06-25 15:30
Quote:
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On 2005-06-24 18:29, Shigernafy wrote:
The lack of energy upgradability for the Assault dreads is an oversight, an a consequence of the upgrade limit being by gadget class rather than actual gadget. We'll work on a fix for that in the near future, but it won't make it into the stress test. |
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-24 11:06, Tael wrote:
The command dread is simply a normal dread with different sensor and supportive rolls. |
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In other words, you're right, and we've said so, and it will be fixed. It just hasn't yet.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2005-06-25 16:35
Minor suggestion: Instead of calling them Assault-class Dreadnoughts, why not call 'em Superdreadnoughts?
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