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Upgrading Costs |
Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
|  Posted: 2005-06-28 01:55
This got mentioned in the stress test thread, thought I'd go a little more into it.
Basically the cost of upgrading is far too high. But also, it has to be worked out that the value of an item MUST equal base cost of lvl0 version + cumulative upgrade cost. If the value of the item is higher, then it is cheaper to simply strip the item off another ship. If lower, then it is profitable to upgrade items and sell for cash. So it's gotta be equal.
Of course stripping is only an issue when there's a ship that has that level item, take engines for example. But still it should be the same.
Perhaps could also have upgrading costs increase exponentially, upgrading from 0-1 should be cheap, while 14-15 should be a lot more expensive (think decreasing returns, you're trying to squeeze more out of the same piece of machinery). This also helps reduce costs for small ships (since limited level) and newer players, also reflects higher tech not being linearly more expensive than lower.
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-06-28 02:16
Wonder if they can have cost based on level... like to upgrade from 0-1 as an ensign costs a fraction that it would for a GA - that would help level the playing field I think.
For example, since ensign is the 2nd rank of all 13, it would cost 2/13 of the price to upgrade an IE engine from 0-1. I leave it to all the gurus to work out some usable math, thats just my thought on the matter 
But yeah... not looking forward to upgrading my AC 
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-06-28 02:39
No plans to change this at this time as Mission system is slotted for return in the next patch.
Also the system currently takes the Value of the item at the level it currently is, the factors the price difference for the next level and then times it by 4.
Not by the whole value, just the difference of the upgrade.
This is on purpose.
You will spend money to have devices retooled and fixed up. Once you no longer want that device, you take it and sell it to a Star port. You will get the items Value.
So someone that does not want to take the time and cost to upgrade a device can periodically locate one at a shipyard for a fraction of the cost of upgrading it themselves.
This means there is a market now for salvaged componets after a battle.
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WinterRose
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 12, 2002
Posts: 126
From: WinterRose
| Posted: 2005-06-28 03:45
I hate to say this, but won't this also kinda lessen the versitality of the player base? Normally this might not be a bad thing, but at the moment there isn't a whole lot of people playing. Being able to yank out a dread when the situation calls for it, or yank out a supply when it's needed, etc, makes the game worth playing.
But if prices are so high that you can only afford to modify one or two ships, you're gonna stick with that ship. Mainly because everyone's gonnab e running around with level 10 armor and someone's gonna have level 8 weapons.. And a non-stock ship is gonna be eaten for breakfast by these ships.
Just a thought.
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Mithrandir
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 1276
| Posted: 2005-06-28 05:37
Or the MV will start with high level ships, and slowly slide down to lower level over time, as people can no longer afford to mod all their ships.
That's what I see happening.. people start fielding stock ships after a bit (with current prices, 'a bit' = 4 hours).
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-06-28 06:42
So I hope that means that Starports will no longer have item decay?
And also, will salvaged tech from the AI faction/s be moddable to a players ship?
Just curious.
We may need to find a way to make more money in MV with these prices.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-06-28 07:42
i think certain systems should have a type on mineral on a planet that isnt able to be built on (fire planet for EG). that way people can mine for money.
and if this new type on mineral come about, could be used for those Jump gates your all talking about =)
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Novacat
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 30, 2001
Posts: 2337
From: Starleague Cache
| Posted: 2005-06-28 08:07
More like 'a bit' = 0 hours...
Nobodys going to be able to mod with current prices.
Im sorry, but this is a pretty stupid move IMO.
[ This Message was edited by: RedXIII on 2005-06-28 08:09 ]
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-06-28 08:46
In beta as it is now, the cost to upgrade a standard cl is 8k (just to lvl1), but stripping a lvl8 off a dread will only cost you 6k. You save massively. Upgrading a standard armour to lvl1 costs 16k (though seems to cost 32k), as opposed to stripping a lvl8 off a dread for a cost of some 22k (I think).
Rather than upgrading, you save millions by just stripping as we've been doing already. Or if you're going higher than 8 just strip then upgrade the rest of the way.
This is what I'm talking about Tael. Irrespective of the actual costs, the item value must be the same as the cumulative upgrade cost + base, otherwise you can easily break the upgrading system by stripping.
This of course only works if there's a ship with the item of that level, but most of the time a ship can be found with at least one. And that's not important either, what matters is it's possible and easy for the most common items.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-06-28 08:47
Quote:
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On 2005-06-28 06:42, Azreal wrote:
So I hope that means that Starports will no longer have item decay?
And also, will salvaged tech from the AI faction/s be moddable to a players ship?
Just curious.
We may need to find a way to make more money in MV with these prices.
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They dont decay, just like before 1.481.
Some AI stuff will not be modable (SE drives/SE JD's for instance).
Mining costs should pretty much be ramped up. I get about 3k a-unload with 7 mining beams on a command station, thats way too small. It needs to be about 300k...500k..
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2005-06-28 08:53
It might be necessary to reimplement the credit loss when you dock a ship into the starport that has lower value than the stock version, if we want to avoid the stripping of ships. Stripping will still be more cost effective than upgrading from lvl 0, but this will act more as a deterrent.
In combination with this, doubling the credit value for resources would help to an extent. Not too sure how this balances vs resource cost for factory items though.
Would a bounty reward be hard to implement? 500 credits for a scout, doubling for each succesive ship class or something like as follows
Scout - 500
Frigate - 1000
Transport - 2000
Utility class - 4000 (engineer/supply)
Destroyer - 6000
Cruiser - 12000
Dreadnaught - 24000
Class 2 Dreadnaught - 32000
Station - 64000
[ This Message was edited by: Drafell on 2005-06-28 09:06 ]
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-06-28 09:10
I was thinking about bounties too. The problem is, much of the time a planet steals a kill, or the person sd's, or someone else (who only did the final shot). If you could find a way to work around that fairly, then I think it'd be really good.
Another possibility - have more items survive an explosion, and make scrap last longer. Thus after a battle you can scour the field in a tranny and collect it.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2005-06-28 09:13 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-06-28 09:12
It could be based on how much damage the player has done to that ships overall hp (shield + armour + hull). Then it gets distributed to the player.
Say a station is 100000 bounty, and 100000 hp.
Say I do 50000 damage
Drafell does 25000
CharAznable does 25000
That means I hae 50000 credits, and the other two get 25k.
The problem is, if the station repair, the bounty of the station would go up...unless it worked it out as a percentage, and reloads added a value to HP, ie, say a reload repairs 100 hp a second, add 100 hp to the overall every second, so that the outcome is still the same. You would need to add a sort of "If ship = being reloaded, (get reload level), add [value] to [overallhp]"
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-06-28 09:20 ]
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2005-06-28 09:26
Then it has to be recorded how much damage you did to anyone, in case they die. And if they crash, and you had taken half their hull, do you get bounty?. Also hulls aren't static through a battle, they can be repaired, thus you can do several times their hull damage before killing, how much bounty then?
It's hard to reward individual work when it's so much a group effort. Perhaps when an enemy dies - to a friendly planet/ship - all the friendly in the system get the reward. Or something
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-06-28 09:34
/me suggests bringing back grouping......
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