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Kluth: Clearing up some confusion for them. |
Ramius
Fleet Admiral
Agents
Joined: January 12, 2002
Posts: 894
From: Ramius
|  Posted: 2005-07-18 02:11
why not just have so if kluth are beaconed, kluth still have base 0 sig, but now eccm works against them... so they can still cloak, and still ejump and can cloak and remain hidden, etc. etc.
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ReZ
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 59
From: Eh?
| Posted: 2005-07-18 02:36
all these years i've been mislead..
i keep thinking kluth cloak is more of a psi weapon than actual technology, which is why it took little to no power back in the previous versions.. and why we could fire while cloaked and whatnot.
since their species have psi weapons i had assumed cloak was just another part of their collective "mental" projection.. in theory if that were the case, things like eccm would do little.
In terms of the beacon system, why not just pop it back to the way it was in previous versions. Although i like the suggestion about it having its own slot.
And it would help if it was a limit of 3-4 beacons on a target.. lord knows how annoying it is to have 3482342934893284 beacons slapped on you by some fool who wishes to add lag.
ah well, my 1.243434343 cents worth 
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Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
| Posted: 2005-07-18 02:37
back to the eccm exploit ...and it is an exploit, you might have tested it with one ship pinging....and got random results how about 20 people all pinging ...that infrequent randomness becomes constant...it makes kluth mounting a strike against a planet tough cause the planetary def can target us ...happened to me and i wasnt beaconed i was never within range of an enemy ship however planet def could target me just fine along with qst's and fighters from enemy ships.
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-Viper-
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 55
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-07-18 09:49
Its a bug, people are using it as a work around to gain an advantage that wasn't intended, therefor its an exploit. They should put in some delay and a check when you enable the eccm or something. ECCM is not supposed to effect cloak at all
Also beacons are a huge problem for kluth, they rely on cloak a lot due to having weaker ships, I don't think they should stick to the ship for so long. Or keep the beacons ONLY on scouts. Currently you can go and buy a level 1 beacon for 1k credits? and make a level 10 cloaking device (costing something closer to 300k) 100% useless, seems a bit unbalanced to me.
[ This Message was edited by: -Viper- on 2005-07-18 10:12 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-18 10:15
Beacons were not designed with 1.483 in mind. True, they were designed in part to counter cloak, but they were also the product of a version where cloak was affected by ecm/eccm. I do not think, had they been first introduced in 1.483 and not a few versions ago, that they would function like they do now.
Now there is zero countermeasures to a beacon (there used to be ecm and ecm forts), Every ship you encounter in 1.483 can and usually does have a beacon. You know what that does to a faction that relies on cloak? Renders them helpless. One little easy to mod item renders them helpless. It's too powerful an ability to allow every ship to have.
Make them scout and frigate only. Give scouts and frigates a beacon slot. I already see people beaconing in scouts so this isn't a big change. Just like flying a dictor cruiser limits that pilot's fighting and defense capabilities, so too flying a beacon ship would limit them. It's a sacrifice on the part of the pilot for the greater good of his fleet.
I honestly don't think there should be a way to disable a cloak at all other than damaging the ship, unless it was a very powerful planetary structure. But I know I'm in the minority so my suggestion is the middle ground.
Oh, and for heaven's sake go back to the way it was when killing the beaconing ship erased the beacon! The beacon is a link between it and it's controlling ship (the beacon scout or beacon frigate), and that ship in turn relays the info to the rest of the fleet (in my mind). So severing that link renders the beacon useless.
Don't think that this would be too advantageous to the Kluth. We already have to deal with planets that are easier to bomb than a hot knife through butter. So does UGTO 
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-Viper-
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 55
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-07-18 10:20
Or a limited range on the beacon? 
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-18 10:40
Stop that "beacons only for frigs and smaler" shiznit!
These ship classes are pure cannon fodder. If youz limit beacon to those,beacons will bevome useless, because no scout or frig survives long enough to beacon something.
Heck they already die to Splash damage from Core weapons.
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Eagleranger
Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2002
Posts: 342
From: Ozark mountains
| Posted: 2005-07-18 10:55
for crying out loud how low does the kluth have to go if your beacon jump the heck out of the fight it only last 30-90 sec.
i cant believe this whinning about beacons making you visible i beacon alot of you in a sensor frigate and lost i dont know how much prestige being killed in single strikes from you kluth .
shoot i wish icc had that kind of alpha adapt and inprovise for crying out loud quit looking for admin it program you a easy edge
beacons are fine just the way it is.
the kluth was not meant for a long ingagement . they were meant to do attacks in a pack,, fast and swift kills by those uber alphas of your
on the other side of the coin i do think it needs to be fix that they can tell that they have been beaconed
thats $5.00 worth on the beacon subject seeing they nerf the eccm
[ This Message was edited by: Eagleranger on 2005-07-18 10:57 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2005-07-18 11:25
Quote:
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On 2005-07-18 10:40, Daimen -{Rear Guard}- wrote:
These ship classes are pure cannon fodder. If youz limit beacon to those,beacons will bevome useless, because no scout or frig survives long enough to beacon something.
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hmm, or maybe people will use tactics to protect the scout, allowing the scout to BEACON ships, thus allowing the FLEET to attack CLOAKED ships.
or maybe I'm just the only one that doesn't want everyship to be multipurpose.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-18 11:48
Yeah Fattierob has the idea. It gives those ships a real genuine purpose and promotes fleet tactics.
What's the tactic now? Gather as many stations, dreads, cruisers and supply as possible and fight? Destroyers are a poor man's cruiser, frigates are for those who'd be better off in newbie, and scouts are those crazy guys that like evading weapons and are probably bored with the regular gameplay for the time being.
But they have no purpose. They USED to back when ecm/eccm was necessary. Now they don't. The sensor frigates and sensor scouts had a genuine purpose.
I want a purpose for these ships again and this is a great way to do it. It takes something that's a bit unbalanced at the moment and balances it. And promotes TEAMWORK. Not just a mass gathering of large ships but an actual fleet with varied ships all with their own purpose.
Or if you don't like that, give the beacon slot to destroyers and give the picket design to frigates. Let the scouts remain as ecm/eccm ships. This would give both the frigates and destroyers a tactical reason to be part of a fleet and yet not make the beacon ship so fragile.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2005-07-18 11:51 ]
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KanaDIEn ^_^
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 20, 2004
Posts: 294
| Posted: 2005-07-18 12:13
the fighters still rape you for a short period after you cloak
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-18 12:16
Quote:
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On 2005-07-18 02:37, General Grievous wrote:
back to the eccm exploit ...and it is an exploit, you might have tested it with one ship pinging....and got random results how about 20 people all pinging ...that infrequent randomness becomes constant...it makes kluth mounting a strike against a planet tough cause the planetary def can target us ...happened to me and i wasnt beaconed i was never within range of an enemy ship however planet def could target me just fine along with qst's and fighters from enemy ships.
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No it isnt an exploit, Tael and Faustus both know about this, and both set it to closed in mantis. Which means "SORTED/DONE/FINISH/NOTAPROBLEMO!".
If it was an exploit, Tael would of posted already, and implimented a change.
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Nax
Marshal
Joined: May 12, 2005
Posts: 768
| Posted: 2005-07-18 12:23
The admin team is discussing the balance between the different systems currently. Nothing is fixed - constructive comments are welcome.
But, to clarify this situation today.
Exploiting is when you are working around the as-designed intentions of the game system. You do not need to rapidly turn on/off the ECCM or Scanner systems to produce this pinging (a trick that would probably qualify as an Exploit) - simply turning the system on and using it *precisely as intended* produces the cloak-pinging.
Patches and updates are being done continuously over the next few days/weeks. The staff will let you know when a final decision is made.
Nax
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Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
| Posted: 2005-07-18 12:46
Not a bug eh...even as its being used...clicking it on and off with huge fleets all doing the same thing...you didn't address my concern of 20 ships all doing it backy ...believe me its intolerable it makes the cloak useless to get close to enemy ships and decloak , shoot , recloak ...that IS the way we were intended to fight is it not....I seem to recall you making a statement along those lines in another post.
Already decided on? I wonder if your opinion counted for much weight in that descision...having the ear of devs (or so it seems)
In beta you were always the loudest advocate of either nerfing kluth or strengthening Ugto...everything that could help UGTO...or nerf kluth you were right there mobbing the forum...I see the patern continues.
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Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
| Posted: 2005-07-18 12:46
Not a bug eh...even as its being used...clicking it on and off with huge fleets all doing the same thing...you didn't address my concern of 20 ships all doing it backy ...believe me its intolerable it makes the cloak useless to get close to enemy ships and decloak , shoot , recloak ...that IS the way we were intended to fight is it not....I seem to recall you making a statement along those lines in another post.
Already decided on? I wonder if your opinion counted for much weight in that descision...having the ear of devs (or so it seems)
In beta you were always the loudest advocate of either nerfing kluth or strengthening Ugto...everything that could help UGTO...or nerf kluth you were right there mobbing the forum...I see the patern continues.
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