| Author |
Kluth: Clearing up some confusion for them. |
Captain Sternn
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 225
|  Posted: 2005-07-18 12:50
As for beacons maybe they shouldn't be a standard slot...
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-18 13:25
It's definitely an exploit if eccm is no longer intended to detect cloak. It may not qualify as a kick/ban exploit but it's still something that should not be possible to do.
Now I don't know if it's intentional for eccm to "ping' cloaked ships, but I'm assuming it is not because that's another huge hindrance to Kluth using cloak for sneak attacking like they're supposed to.
Being able to tell if there's cloaked ships in the area is just unacceptable. Makes me wonder what the heck the point of cloak is if it's intended?
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-07-18 13:44
Before I begin, I would like to show my goodwill by saying that I AM a K'luth player, and yes, I AM going to suggest some things which are counter to the interest of K'luth, because I'm really trying to come to a FAIR solution for everyone.
Here's my proposed balancing solution. I hope I've addressed all of the complaints mentioned above:
1. Fix the beacon bug, so you know when you are beaconed.
2. Make a special beacon slot for ships in which beacons are intended to be used.
3. Increase the effectiveness of beacons - they are permanent and don't "expire" on the ship they are attached to.
4. Increase the travelling speed of beacons, so they can latch on to ships faster and more accurately.
5. Decrease the speed of the beacon reload device (loads slower - maybe 1 launch per 8 seconds) to reduce beacon-generated spam/lag.
6. Change the cloak code so that during the cloaking period, the signature gradually goes to zero, rather than jumps from 8.0 to 0 just like that.
7. Make K'luths be able to decloak instantly (as before) to preserve their ability to fight by element of surprise.
8. Make beacons removable only at depots or supply ships as part of the repair process.
What does this mean?
- Human fleets will finally have a specific use for scout/frigate ships.
- Beacons retain their usage.
- Human ships can completely even out the playing field with a good beacon.
- While the cloaking time stays the same, the new cloak code (#6) allows K'luth ships to stay in view for longer to give the scouts a better chance to beacon during escape.
- Chances of firing a beacon and hitting the enemy is now greatly increased.
- K'luths actually get the element of a surpise attack, which was what was meant to happen in the first place.
--
Hopefully this will give both sides a chance to have fun playing the game. I saw how hard it is for scouts to get their beacons on a moving ship, so I think it is fair that beacons should travel faster. I also think it is good to allow scouts a longer chance to beacon fleeing opponents. But it is silly that K'luth ships get beaconed before they even get a chance to attack, hence the instant decloak and "more detectable"/longer cloak.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-07-18 13:54
Quote:
| Especially if it was a frigate-only item. Frigates still have no use whatsoever.
Otherwise it too easily negates an entire faction.
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make frigates the beacon boats. and whoever says frigates cant last against dreads has no idea what thier talking about. why? frigates are faster than any dread weapon exept for beams. so why would a sane frigate pilot go INTO beam range?
your basing your assumption that frigates are useless on the fact of the only ppl who fly frigates are the ones who cant fly anything Bigger.
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-07-18 13:57
Then why would anyone use a scout, Meko?
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-18 13:57
Quote:
|
On 2005-07-18 13:44, Bottombum (Esari) wrote:
Before I begin, I would like to show my goodwill by saying that I AM a K'luth player, and yes, I AM going to suggest some things which are counter to the interest of K'luth, because I'm really trying to come to a FAIR solution for everyone.
Here's my proposed balancing solution. I hope I've addressed all of the complaints mentioned above:
1. Fix the beacon bug, so you know when you are beaconed.
2. Make a special beacon slot for ships in which beacons are intended to be used.
3. Increase the effectiveness of beacons - they are permanent and don't "expire" on the ship they are attached to.
4. Increase the travelling speed of beacons, so they can latch on to ships faster and more accurately.
5. Decrease the speed of the beacon reload device (loads slower - maybe 1 launch per 8 seconds) to reduce beacon-generated spam/lag.
6. Change the cloak code so that during the cloaking period, the signature gradually goes to zero, rather than jumps from 8.0 to 0 just like that.
7. Make K'luths be able to decloak instantly (as before) to preserve their ability to fight by element of surprise.
8. Make beacons removable only at depots or supply ships as part of the repair process.
What does this mean?
- Human fleets will finally have a specific use for scout/frigate ships.
- Beacons retain their usage.
- Human ships can completely even out the playing field with a good beacon.
- While the cloaking time stays the same, the new cloak code (#6) allows K'luth ships to stay in view for longer to give the scouts a better chance to beacon during escape.
- Chances of firing a beacon and hitting the enemy is now greatly increased.
- K'luths actually get the element of a surpise attack, which was what was meant to happen in the first place.
--
Hopefully this will give both sides a chance to have fun playing the game. I saw how hard it is for scouts to get their beacons on a moving ship, so I think it is fair that beacons should travel faster. I also think it is good to allow scouts a longer chance to beacon fleeing opponents. But it is silly that K'luth ships get beaconed before they even get a chance to attack, hence the instant decloak and "more detectable"/longer cloak.
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Me like, perhaps the beacon should, depending on the level, slow down the cloak. So on a dread, say its 5 seconds cloak, the beacon adds 0.5 per level. So level 10 beacon adds 5 seconds to the cloak.
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warner_lowcharge
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2004
Posts: 205
From: Finland
| Posted: 2005-07-18 13:57
But if frigates would be the only ships with beacons, don't you think they would be the primary targets for luthies?
i bet they would sneek up behind a frig cloaked, uncloak and alpha...bye bye frig=/
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2005-07-18 14:04
so the frig would want to sit under mama.
why would anyone use scouts? ECM and ECCM is why. thats thier domain. hense they scout
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-Viper-
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 55
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-07-18 14:18
Lol, that will just make things worse, most of those ideas contradict eachother. Beacons stay on perminantly? yea right, might aswell just remove cloak altogether.
The idea of cloak is to be able to sneek your way in and get first strike, the fact that eccm is bugged and prevents that makes it pointless having. The other fact that any ship can carry beacons makes scouts obsolete because they now have no role at all.
Also a level 1 beacon launcher should NOT effect a level 10 cloaking device. To get a lvl10 cloak costs a lot, so the device used to counter it should be equally as expensive.
[ This Message was edited by: -Viper- on 2005-07-18 14:25 ]
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-18 14:28
Quote:
"I just mounted dual Beacons to two Full arcs...
I like the current system as it is. "
I would do the same... I'd just manually target all around my ship and launch beacons every 20 degree angle or so until I get a hit, then its game over... We don't have any "decent" defenses left after we lose the cloak. It's too easy to counter if a pilot is smart enough to do the above.
My fix?
Beacons were fun back when they used to be only mounted on small ships, some guy would fly one about anytime ( for pure fun ) and beacon a ship or 2 that would then get chased around the system like a cat after catnip.
So I agree with most of the people here that beacons should get restricted to lower class vessels, promotes fleet diversity and teamwork as well as bring the balance of power between the factions a bit more towards perfection.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-18 15:18
Good  I do have some support for my suggestion.
What about suggesting that the beacons disappear if the ship that fired them gets destroyed? That's how it used to be right? Can't seem to remember too well.
But it was a lot of fun I do remember that. One scout would get hunted all over the map in scenario when he beaconed everyone.
Oh, and beacons did nothing to signature. They made you visible from anywhere on the map no matter what. I liked it. It was a more powerful beacon, but it was also counterable by destroying the ship.
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-07-18 15:21
Quote:
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On 2005-07-18 13:57, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Me like, perhaps the beacon should, depending on the level, slow down the cloak. So on a dread, say its 5 seconds cloak, the beacon adds 0.5 per level. So level 10 beacon adds 5 seconds to the cloak.
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Ok. Now that is a stellar idea, pardon the pun. Because now, the use of beacon ships would really enhance the tactics behind human fleets.
Working off of that idea, why not something like this?
- Beacons can actively slow down a cloaking process AND add time to the decloaking process if the ship is beaconed. Let's say...0.5s per level cloaking, 0.2s per level decloaking.
- ECCM can passively slow down the cloaking AND decloaking process by another 0.35s per level. (Effect MUST not stack)
- Scanners can keep a cloaking ship on your targeting systems yet another 0.5s per level.
- ECM on the cloaking ship can reduce the cloaking AND decloaking time by 0.25s per level (Effect MUST not stack)
- Instant cloak and decloak on a natural, unaffected, unmodded K'luth ship.
So, how does this all add up at level 10?
D = Decloak Time/C = Cloak Time
Beacons: +2 secs (D) and +5 secs (C)
Scanners:+0 secs (D) and +5 secs (C)
ECCM: +3.5 secs (D) and +3.5 secs (C)
ECM: -2.5 secs (D) and -2.5 secs (C)
Result: 3 seconds to decloak, whopping 11 seconds to cloak.
Though this is potentially debilitating to the K'luth, I think it may finally stop other factions from being so critical of cloak.
[ This Message was edited by: Bottombum (Esari) on 2005-07-18 15:25 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-18 15:48
If you have instant decloak and recloak, there will be some real problems in the MV and newbie...
I really dont think thats a good idea..Current cloak times + beacons would work well..not the scanners though, scanners are purely for objects and structures.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2005-07-18 15:48 ]
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-07-18 16:22
Agreed, I didn't consider the newbie server.
However, I think having an increased cloak time, an improved beacon AND having beacons slow the cloak process is too much.
How about this? If your ship is beaconed, you can still cloak, rendering your ship invisible, but the beacon itself remains visible (with its pulses) and the beacon, not the ship, CAN be targeted. The signature of the beacon would remain something like 20gu, but stacked beacons don't add up to become like 300gu, they stay at 20gu, just that people can target different parts of your ship where the beacons are attached.
This is a good compromise between an overpowered beacon that nullifies the purpose of cloak, and also gives human fleets a very good chance to do a lot damage to beaconed K'luth ships.
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We are many. We are one.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-18 16:29
No point in having the ship cloak then.
I like the other idea's though.
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