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New Idea for Cloak... |
Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
|  Posted: 2005-07-18 14:28
(couldnt find suggestions forum, im guessing it got taken away or cleverly renamed?)
okie, i had a new idea for cloak which people might like a bit more then current one
A) the cloak will still be undetectable "permanetly" by ECCM (I.E., a cloaked ship with 5 ECCM around it will remain cloaked, possibly with the pinging thing still in place)
B) Beacons will still make kluth ships visible
C) The Kluth cloak will make it so that the kluth vessel cannot target any objects ingame, what this means is that while cloaked, the MV has no target boxs to select, youre essentially flying by sight alone (the exception would be only friendly ships would be visible, but perhaps not even as target boxes, maybe just distortians in space)
D) Destroyer class vessels on the human factions would all have 2 "Depth charge" like devices standard onboard, basically wide radius splash bombs that only do damage to vessels that are using a cloak.
E) Kluth cloaks will no longer be like interdictors that you turn on and leave on to your hearts content. the cloak will have a set reload time like a torpedoe. the difference is, the entire time the cloak is "recharging" it is in effect, so your ship will stay cloaked for 20 minutes, decloak, then you would have to cloak again. the length of time this would be in effect would proportionally rise depending on ship hull class.
F) upgrading the cloak would allow its run time to last longer, so your scout could be made to run cloaked for an hour instead of 20 minutes. HOWEVER, the higher level a cloak was, the more likely it would be that you would be pinged by ECCM, so while you would be able to run in enemy space without fear of being directly targetted, they WILL know you are there, and they will make attempts to beacon or "depth charge" you.
i personally think that this would be a good balance between cloak pros and cons. id imagine itd be a pain to code tho, so im only suggesting it for a much later date.
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-18 14:57
No
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-18 15:13
The fact that you can't target anything is no good. Kluth would be just as blind as their enemy, and that would make the cloak a defensive item when it's meant to be offensive.
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-07-18 15:31
Clearly you do not play K'luth. Enough said. :)
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Trekkie_zero
Cadet
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 146
From: A state with too many A\'s....
| Posted: 2005-07-18 15:37
Actually the cloak is a defensive weapon and a first strike oppurtunity... Why do you think they made it where it was undetectable so you can run away easily and strike without being seen till you strike...
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-18 15:45
No.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-07-18 16:01
On 2005-07-18 14:28, Lark Of Eternity {C?} wrote:
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(couldnt find suggestions forum, im guessing it got taken away or cleverly renamed?)
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Its in Beta. ^^
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A) the cloak will still be undetectable "permanetly" by ECCM (I.E., a cloaked ship with 5 ECCM around it will remain cloaked, possibly with the pinging thing still in place)
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Remove the ping. Give K'luth a truely permanent cloak.
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B) Beacons will still make kluth ships visible
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Make the run time shorter on beacons, and higher level beacons last longer. Also make beacons removeable by reload.
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C) The Kluth cloak will make it so that the kluth vessel cannot target any objects ingame, what this means is that while cloaked, the MV has no target boxs to select, youre essentially flying by sight alone (the exception would be only friendly ships would be visible, but perhaps not even as target boxes, maybe just distortians in space)
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That doesn't make sense, why would you want to hinder them more? Target boxes should always be completely selectable in all cases...
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D) Destroyer class vessels on the human factions would all have 2 "Depth charge" like devices standard onboard, basically wide radius splash bombs that only do damage to vessels that are using a cloak.
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Another hinderance? We have torpedos and mines for splash damage, we don't need another weapon to combat them, and let alone specifically designed for cloaking.
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E) Kluth cloaks will no longer be like interdictors that you turn on and leave on to your hearts content. the cloak will have a set reload time like a torpedoe. the difference is, the entire time the cloak is "recharging" it is in effect, so your ship will stay cloaked for 20 minutes, decloak, then you would have to cloak again. the length of time this would be in effect would proportionally rise depending on ship hull class.
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Yet another hinderance. The beauty of the cloak is that it can stay on forever, as long as you have the energy to maintain it.
While on the subject of cloak though... I have a few points to make on my view of it.
- - Decloack should be immediate for all ships, including Dreadnoughts and stations.
- - Recloak should be timed, so that it takes a WHILE to recloak.
- - Cloak should reduce the signature of ALL ships around it.
- - Cloak should sustain as long as there is energy, AND there is no damage to the cloaking device itself.
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F) upgrading the cloak would allow its run time to last longer, so your scout could be made to run cloaked for an hour instead of 20 minutes. HOWEVER, the higher level a cloak was, the more likely it would be that you would be pinged by ECCM, so while you would be able to run in enemy space without fear of being directly targetted, they WILL know you are there, and they will make attempts to beacon or "depth charge" you.
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Cloak is an offensive/defensive weapon, not strictly defensive.
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i personally think that this would be a good balance between cloak pros and cons. id imagine itd be a pain to code tho, so im only suggesting it for a much later date.
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All cons no pros m'dear....
-Ent
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-19 21:32
I had this thought back when beta testing.
1. On ship classes Destroyer and under, use the old style of cloak. Have it be effected by eccm, sensors, etc. Seems that most of the exploitable issues are related to them, and only because of the fact that the cloak it's self has changed. Maybe add a SLIGHTLY higher power drain than what was previously used.
2. On Cruiser class and above, use the new cloak. Total cloak, uneffected by eccm, sensors, etc. Personally, I still say that the cloak on/off times are way screwed. It is a FACT that you cannot uncloak and attack an enemy before he can target and fire on you. Decloak should be instantaneous. If Kluth are penalized in every other area, because they are supposed to be able to choose the engagment and use suprise, then being fired on before you can fire back is not acceptable. Period. Cloaking should take longer the bigger the hull class of the vessel.
3. I like the idea of a "depth charge" type weapon, but I see the equivalent in the mine. Laying a nice fat field of mines would be just as effective, if not more.
4. Planets should be able to detect a cloaked ship somehow. Use whatever theory you want, this is to make things balance out. There should be at least some sort of a warning that a planet has hostiles nearby. Trade ships passing through may see the distortion of a cloaking dread. Civilian transports might see a strange stray engine trail....whatever. The server should announce that there is an enemy at a planet. Same goes for fleets running heavy ecm. There should be some type of server alert, even though the ships themselves, type, number, etc are not given away.
5. I would like the idea of being able to mod the cloak out completely, but would like another option besides the autorepair to replace it. while the extra repair is nice, maybe a spare ring of a second type of armor would be good as well. It would have to be a spare full armor though, as the cloak is a full mode gadget. Maybe it could be Cyborganic armor, or something like that, that heals just a little faster than organic, but is otherwise similar. My thought is offer people who want to a few options if they forgo the cloak alltogether.
Dunno. just some thoughts.
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KanaDIEn ^_^
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 20, 2004
Posts: 294
| Posted: 2005-07-19 22:17
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On 2005-07-18 15:45, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
No.
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no
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-19 23:03
wee yay, no constructive criticism...
and btw
STOP WHINING ABOUT CLOAK!
wow, its ten times better then it was last patch in any case, why the hell are you complaining about it now? because we spam beacons more then we used to? NEWS BULLETIN: we could and did spam beacons before, way back when u could build a planet with enough sensor bases to light up the entire system.
get over it.
and learn how to play your own faction. if ud like, ill make a post with 12 good strategies on how to use kluth, ones that are practically foolproof and only stoppable by luck. ones that none of u have used so far.
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Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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WinterRose
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 12, 2002
Posts: 126
From: WinterRose
| Posted: 2005-07-19 23:21
I still don't understand this all over the cloak.
You have the single most powerful device in the game. Yet you want it changed once again?
You can hide from anyone. You can get yourself into perfect positions, and using teamwork.. You can force your target to either just die, or immediately jump out of battle, effectively removing a ship from play..
You can fly into a fully defended planet, pop off a alpha or two on the little ships, get your kill point, and then cloak and get away scot free. I once watched as a k'luth dessie went through a enemy worm hole right into the midst of a entire fleet of ICC, then just.. Cloak and fly away as easy as you please.
You can even pretty much negate missles and especially fighters. This is especially unfair on your interdictors. How's a dread going to hope to scare off the ultimate sanctioned griefing tool of the game? Long range missles and fighters. What does the dictor do? Cloak and uncloak. Sure, you can escape at about that point, but there's always the bad luck of being pointed directly at a star or planet and don't have the time to turn your ship around for a safe escape.
You want beacon's changed? Why? Why do you want them dropped to Scouts and Frigates? Oh, right. Cause you can destroy them on one alpha.
There are two, only TWO counters I know of to the cloak. (Not counting that ECCM pinging, which I've never used or done). 1> Beacons. And that's only AFTER the k'luth ship has uncloaked and got his easy point blank alpha damage in. THEN You can hope to beacon them. IF said K'luth is smart enough to be swerving away and leaving at max range of your disruptors, you have a huge chance of dodging that fired beacon. And 2> Simply firing every weapon you have all around once you get an idea that there's a cloaked ship. And you know how effective that tends to be.
The amount of damage K'luth can dish out, and take, is very unbalanced. Two manidibles on any dread is more than enough to heavily damage that ship. An let's not bring in the 'team game' aspect of it all. We're looking at a game where one faction can position itself, free of threats, and then uncloak and fire.
Live with what you got and enjoy it. Leave the cloaks, and the beacons, alone. If you don't wanna be beaconed, fly cruisers, attack at max range, and swerve away immediately. Feel free to laugh as the little green beacon misses you entirely. Or heck, leave a beam or two dedicated to anti beacon PD.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-19 23:29
point of proof
apparently, kluth ships were shadowing UGTO fleets cloaked and completely undetected. theyd find an UGTO station, work their way up to it, and wait for it to WH an UGTO attack fleet somewhere. theyd follow this said fleet EVERYWHERE across the MV.
you can do that, and youre complaining?
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-19 23:29
Well Kluth don't enjoy being eccm pinged then targeted/beaconed. We will see how it is when eccm ping is fixed which it is (not sure when it will be updated).
And it's still lame to shoot beacons at random points in space in the hopes of hitting a cloaked ship. Beacons should not stick when they hit a ship that's cloaked. If we uncloak and get beaconed that's fine. If we are cloaked and get hit by beacon spam that's not fine. Got it? Like bombs now don't do anything if launched from within 100gu, beacons should not do anything if they hit a cloaked ship.
That's the problem. That's why I'd like to see a dedicated beacon ship instead of every ship being a beacon ship.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2005-07-19 23:33 ]
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Trekkie_zero
Cadet
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 146
From: A state with too many A\'s....
| Posted: 2005-07-19 23:31
I personally think the Kluth armor is too strong they shouldnt be able to engage in an extended fight but they sure do... Although their stations I think their armor needs to be stronger, but their dreads and anything below needs weaker armor...
I mean you have the perfect cloak, and when you decloak you go through lots of shields and armor and the only way I can really say that your armor shouldnt be weakened is if our armor got stronger...
[ This Message was edited by: Trekkie_zero on 2005-07-19 23:39 ]
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 00:02
@sparkle
i dont think neone actually ECCM pings on ICC, and if beaconing open space is lame... wow
kluth bio bomber with ecm can bomb a planet, uncloaking and cloaking, without their bombs being shot. i saw a clavate doing it in kaps.
but neways, if u make a dedicated beacon ship, itll probably be a frigate, wont it? which means one frelling cruiser could destroy it. itd be useless, so youd be impossible to detect.
beacons should be left alone. cloak should be left alone
let me put it this way, we did beacon spam before with the old kluth cloak. not only did noone complain, but u do realise how ineffective it is right? u have to fire 6 beacons to hit one ship, and even tho its not likely to happen. especially if youre moving. were just as likely to find u if we shot our railguns at random. maybe we shouldnt have railguns? but newho, NOW you have a better cloak that we cant detect, ECCM pinging pretty much doesnt exist im sad to say, as much as ud like to beleive it does (an ECCM will ping u maybe once every 5 minutes, and even then, we only know that you exist, not where u are) and the beacons havent changed at all... youre complaining because u want your cloak to be uber instead of good and balanced. so stop.
and btw, a lot of the time, what kluth think is eccm pingning is actually just a beacon hitting u...
if ANYTHING should change, i think the only modification is that kluth should be thoroughly indicated to when theyve been beaconed. no, supplies shouldnt remove beacons, then wed have kluth fleets with a cloaking and decloaking supply supplying ships for half a second before cloaking again. no, beacons shouldnt have a different speed, or effectiveness, or existence rate, because then sparkle here would be complaining more about all the beacon dreadnaughts chasing him around, and wed be even more annoyed. no, there shouldnt be a beacon ship, cause itd die too easily or be worthless.
nothing is wrong, youre all crazy. be quiet, im trying to have fun.
okie dokie, its your turn to make the pointless and nonsensical retorts.
PS: yes, luthies have too much staying power with all the armour their lesser ships have, and i think Hive is actually fine with its current def abilities
[ This Message was edited by: Lark Of Eternity {C?} on 2005-07-20 00:03 ]
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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