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New Idea for Cloak... |
Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
|  Posted: 2005-07-20 14:52
Last free soul:
Beacons are not invisible in flight. so you actualy KNOW when you get spammed with em.
Instant decloack is a bad idea, especialy because your ships have such an incredible Striking power, ripping L10 Armor like Paper.
At least leave us the chance to start turning and speeding up as soon as we see someone decloack.
If Kluth get Insta decloack, UGTO/Ickies get "fry kluth dreads up close" laserz
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Phoebuzz
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 110
| Posted: 2005-07-20 14:52
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On 2005-07-20 14:25, Lark Of Eternity {C?} wrote:
A) pls tell me where anyone said kluth cloak was supposed to be undetectable
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Development Log - 1.483(.0)
- Cloaking device has been refactored. A cloaked ship can never be detected now, unless it has a beacon attached. Additionally, a cloaked ship cannot jump, unload, or fire weapons. Energy cost increased from 5 to 25 since it's no longer based on how much signature it's deflecting. This is currently the same energy cost as the interdictor device. Additionally, all hull types have a cloaking modifier value, which will modify this energy usage based on the size of the hull.
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B) in case u havent heard, it was the admins that allowed ECCM pinging to stay, and again, to my knowledge it doesnt do very much to actually detect anyone. so what bugs are you talking about?
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It's still a bug. They just allow it because it's easier for them to tolerate it than fix it.
If they wanted to make ECCM have a chance to detect K'luth ships, they would have done it in the first time, and wouldn't have let it happen only in a certain sequence of events. IE: Lag.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 15:04
okie, fine, 1 point of mine has been refuted, then again, ive heard that they were planning to make scanners detect cloak later? not sure about that
point 1 - the game changes significantly all the time, so there isnt much u can do about something changing, even after its been said in dev log. not everything that changes get reported in the dev log.
point 2 - even with slight eccm pinging once every god knows when, the cloak is much better then it was before. before, a kluth ship couldnt make it within 1200 gu without being detected, now they have a good chance of making it to 200 gu. so again, why are there people saying the cloaks been "nerfed" when it very obviously hasnt?
sigh, i personally think that everything is fine the way it is, and thats coming from someone whos faction currently has 67 planets.
youre complaining while youre winning, that makes your stance ridiculous.
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2005-07-20 15:20
Quote:
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C) im ignoring nopants, because evidently to him 3 years of gaming isnt enough experience in the field, and he doesnt know anything about tactics.
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Ive been playing this game since you were twelve. Literally.
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r3dj4ck
2nd Rear Admiral
Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 37
| Posted: 2005-07-20 16:16
From what I've observed:
old cloak pros:
- could be left on indefinately
- you could fire while cloaked
- renders fighters and missles ineffective
old cloak cons:
- easily rendered 100% useless by eccm
- rendered useless if beaconed
compared to...
new cloak pros:
- 98% uneffected by eccm (and then the 2% it does affect you, it only reveals your relative loaction for a fraction of a second)
- you are only targettable after you reveal your position by actively decloaking and firing on a target
- renders fighters and missles ineffective
new cloak cons:
- rendered useless if beaconed
- you have to manage your power
Since 1.483 I've been having a hell of a time against the smarter K'luth players. Personally I'd love to see cloak be reverted back to 1.482 where I could just switch on my little eccm unit and see you all the live long day.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-20 17:23
Great. Now that cloak energy usage is increased we have to fly slower, meaning it's even easier now for us to be hit by beacons fired into empty space or spammed all around.
Why does nobody but Kluth find a problem with this? This is a major problem folks! A small easy to use weapon has become an anti-cloak weapon. Shouldn't that kind of power only come from an item that's equally as energy-draining as the cloak itself? Not a measly beacon that doesn't even have to be fired at a target, but just out in random directions?
There's no way the most advanced ship item in the game can justifiably be countered by the simplest of weapons. You just cannot justify that. And the ease of it's use! Don't even have to see the ships, just fire beacons all around and you'll eventually hit them (even moreso now that we are forced to move slow).
And I don't like being told to use tactics like PD ships to stop beacons when that PD ship is a sitting duck and will be destroyed right away. Hmm just like your beacon ships would be sitting ducks right? You say dedicated beacon ships will be destroyed right away; I say dedicated PD ships will be destroyed right away. What makes your idea of fleet tactics any more valid than mine? Both are valid, but only one is part of a fair system. Guess which system is fair? Hint: it's not the system where beacons can be fired at random, hitting cloaked ships that can't been seen and instantly decloaking them.
I really hope some human players come to see how ridiculous this current system is. It's ridiculous that a lowly beacon, a weapon originally designed for scouts, completely negates the most advanced ship part the galaxy has ever seen in a way that's so easy for the beacon's user it's foolproof.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-20 17:31
Hah, why not DITCH cloack for good?
Give Kluth a second Type of Jump Drive:
Time/Space Displacement Drive. upon use the using ship is transfered to the designation point without delay, instatly.
The Device is unafecctet by Jump Disruptors.
Uses lots of JD Fuel (about 800-1300 each use) but requires no energy for recharge.
Reuse: 30 Second Timer
Max Range : L1 2K GU ->L10 4K (45 Second timer on L10)
So you Kluth can Blitz In and out at your leisure, a true hit and run device with a truckload of devlish possibilitys to use it.
_________________
- In firepower we trust.
- I'm not buying this!
-we ran out of firepower.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-20 18:53
Quote:
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On 2005-07-20 15:04, N'Kra The Wolf {C?} wrote:
point 2 - even with slight eccm pinging once every god knows when, the cloak is much better then it was before. before, a kluth ship couldnt make it within 1200 gu without being detected, now they have a good chance of making it to 200 gu. so again, why are there people saying the cloaks been "nerfed" when it very obviously hasnt?
sigh, i personally think that everything is fine the way it is, and thats coming from someone whos faction currently has 67 planets.
youre complaining while youre winning, that makes your stance ridiculous.
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What were your feelings on the fact that Kluth and UGTO could mod those shield gens? It's ICC gadget, so should be fixed, right? And it was. The balance had to be restored back to intended game play. At this time, people can use an EXPLOIT to override the one thing that the Kluth has been BUILT around now. Everything has been modded with attention payed to what their faction roles are.
As stated before, Kluth was promised a cloak that was undetectable, save you get beaconed. It hasn't been delivered YET. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
In my opinion, the toning down of certain ares of Kluth as promised to the other factions, has been too well done. They have 4 dreads, the Mandy is better than the Siphon, though the Siphon is supposed to be the better ship if you look at the requirments. 2 of those dreads are bombers. Dread bombers on Kluth? Even one? Why the hell two? The Gang should be refitted to a combat control ship, as it was. At the same time, the destroyers are WAY lower on the food chain. I haven't found a mod yet on any of the dessies that make me wanna fly one. The cruisers are ok. I guess. I always liked the Scarab, and like this version better than the old. The ICC and UGTO frigates and scouts were reworked and strengthened, Kluths were weakened. The Kluth are supposed to be built around speed and suprise, hit and fade. Not big slow bomber dreads and destroyers that are more like gnats than anything.
I have played Kluth all my DS carrer. That is a year and a half, not a whole lot. But I can't ever recall lark as a Kluth.
And in the last version, I'm sure many can testify to me and other kluth getting close enough to whack enemies in a full alpha before they ever knew we were there. That's a part of the wolfpack. It's not all tactics that is the problem, it is real issues with the mechanics of Kluth in general.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-20 21:08
Quote:
| 21:42:52 [Admin]Faustus: ""[$BUMS$]Bottombum (Esari) whispered "Will beacons be addressed at some future patch?"
21:43:08 [Admin]Faustus: "@bottomobum... yes, they will be addressed ASAP... perhaps even tonight." |
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There's your proof that all is not right with beacons. What changes are planned, I don't know. But as I've been saying all along, they're not quite right.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 21:12
i didnt see rants in the lobby or forum about auxilary shield gens, and i havent heard of any "fixes" yet, i didnt care. they were a problem to get around, so instead of running to Faustus to make it all better, i came up with a new tactic thatd win me a battle. unless its been changed, UGTO can use pulse beams, and we can use flux. im not complaining. theyre not complaining... so... ECCM pings kluth once in a coons age, and its a huge issue to you guys...
and again, the EAD, AD and siphon arent assault ships anymore, their core weapons ships. their purpose is to field each factions special weapon. oh, and we have 2 bomber dreads too, our CC has 3 mirv slots, and if u want, even the MD can bomb using PSMs. so 3 of our dreads are bombers now... we dont complain about that either, we use them to their full capacity.
fly your dessies to kill enemy dessies? since you can go as fast as them in combat u can get in behind and let off a few good shots id imagine. and apparently a couple of stock beaks are a real danger to a supply ship
and i pretty much only ever played kluth in scenario, and spent about 2 weeks on kluth in MV under a different name and during onea kluths downspells for players.
but honestly, you cant say the cloaks been nerfed as many kluth have been rallying behind, its so much better then it was, im actually worried about kluth ships decloaking off my side now. why they dont is beyond me, cause i wouldnt ever see them coming. i guess my point is, kluth are underestimating what their own ships can do, and are running to the developers to change bugs that dont actually exist. the fact they didnt change ECCM pinging for whatever its worth, wasnt because they were lazy, but because they thought it was cool. it is cool. its like real radar and real sub hunting.
thankyou for being more civil atleast az, its appreciated =)
now, as for some other complaints ive heard
A) ICC is good at bombing because we need something we can be good at, otherwise wed be nothing but defensive, and never be able to take any planets, which would be bad. we bomb, we cap, we defend what weve capped, its how we work.
B) kluth used to have no armour at all, because they arent supposed to be able to sit around and go head to head with a ship designed for head to head. ALL kluth ships are hit and run, or are supposed to be. i personally feel that weapons damage on kluth ships should be upped and energy reserves should allow for one alpha and a 1000gu speed dash, the speed dash being made while cloaked. currently ive watched kluth dreads get 5 alphas off in a row, which is sort of ridiculous for a faction that isnt even supposed to be around long enough to do that...
C) flying a bomber dessie at a kluth planet, 3 def bases killed me instantly in a single alpha. your planets are impossible to bomb, so now you have a defense advantage thats even better then ICCs... im not complaining, theres ways around it, its just mirvs and neutrons are useless now
@ sparkle, changes have been made to the game because of people endlessly complaining about issues that werent there before. 10 bucks says UGTO and ICC will be next up on the platform
[ This Message was edited by: N'Kra The Wolf {C?} on 2005-07-20 21:13 ]
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-20 21:36
It's not just complaining, it's complaining with valid points in your arguments that gets noticed. I can just say "wahh, beacons waah my cloak won't work now waah" but that's not constructive or saying what I think the problem is.
When you identify what you think the problem is and offer a possible solution, it's gonna get noticed. It may not be agreed on but the point has been made. Everyone's point of view in an argument is valid so long as they keep it civil and constructive. It's up to the devs to decide who's point of view will affect the game though. Not us.
I remember when Kluth had no armor. I kept one scale in storage from those days as an antique I'd take out to show people once in a while  But everything was different back then. I actually preferred being human back then because Kluth were easy combat points.
And for the record, I never said cloak was nerfed if you meant me. This cloak is the cloak I've been waiting for since the very beginning. It performs exactly as I wanted it to too. Except for a few problems like eccm pinging and too-easy-to-use beacons, it's perfect. It has it's drawbacks and it's strengths and doesn't need changing.
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2005-07-20 21:39 ]
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