| Author |
New Idea for Cloak... |
ReZ
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 59
From: Eh?
|  Posted: 2005-07-20 00:13
Quote:
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On 2005-07-19 23:03, Lark Of Eternity {C?} wrote:
wee yay, no constructive criticism...
and btw
STOP WHINING ABOUT CLOAK!
wow, its ten times better then it was last patch in any case, why the hell are you complaining about it now? because we spam beacons more then we used to? NEWS BULLETIN: we could and did spam beacons before, way back when u could build a planet with enough sensor bases to light up the entire system.
get over it.
and learn how to play your own faction. if ud like, ill make a post with 12 good strategies on how to use kluth, ones that are practically foolproof and only stoppable by luck. ones that none of u have used so far.
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i dont think anyone was whining imo.. they were simply saying that kluth cloak/decloak should be changed, thats all.
I'm sorry if noone really agreed with your suggestion, but dont take it personally  . Or as any of the kluth players crying.
Fact of the matter is, our faction different, and is to be played differently then before. I see no issues with that. Some players dont like it and have left, others are taking the sit and wait approach.. and some are just bopping about.
You may be noticed not many of the luth have been playing hardcore, at least not really, but please, i'd like you to enlighten us on this "uber" strategy that you have come up with for us to be "unstoppable".
No sarcasm there, i'm actually curious. Oh, and have you played the faction since 483's release?
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WinterRose
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 12, 2002
Posts: 126
From: WinterRose
| Posted: 2005-07-20 00:14
A note off Lark's post.
If you're cloaked when a beacon hits you, apparantly you won't see the sensor rings of the beacon.
I was accused earlier of being a exploiter, though a quick chat and I got a apology, so that's no big deal.
K'luth players, I think the best way, if you being shot at whiile cloak and don't see the red beacon rings, check your signature. If it's like a added 20, or 20 could possibly be in that number at all, (divisible?) then you've been beaconed.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 00:27
sigh, ill explain it again since i was trying to convince luthies itd work in the lobby
fleet at enemy planet. most enemy fleets align around their leader on one side of a planet by nature
leaves gap on other side
jump 3k gu out
move in on sublight
pick outlying targets
kill said targets
run away
i havent seen a single kluth player open an attack like that, even tho its the most logical and easiest way. its so simple its stupid. its how i bomb the silly UGTO station fleets. its how i bomb YOUR silly station fleets. ive wiped maybe 8 planets right out from beneath entire fleets of kluth or ugto since patch, using destroyers. i did it once with a dreadnaught too. they didnt notice my dreadnaught attacking... which is pretty sad..,
u can also put out false targets. i had a supply go to a planet next to a luthie SY (since kluth seem to like killing supplies so much lately), silly kluth dreadnaught jumped it, i jumped planet, bombed planet, and left.
ive had entire combat fleets run the distraction. in nicea, about 8 destoyers jumped the UGTO fleet and drew them out, me and another bomber dread jumped in and began bombing. woulda worked if other bomber hadnt discoed.
its simple. its works. why havent u thought of it yet? whats wrong with you people? and i never said it was uber or invincible, just that it was foolproof. IE> the same sort of fools who jump lone supplies orbiting bombed enemy planets 2000gu away from an enemy SY...
UGTO seem pretty vulnerable to the lure tactic, their players have a tendancy to jump nething that moves. specially those EAD folk. ICC less so, since were the defensive faction and love our planets =)
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ReZ
Vice Admiral
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 59
From: Eh?
| Posted: 2005-07-20 00:29
Quote:
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On 2005-07-19 23:21, WinterRose wrote:
I still don't understand this all over the cloak.
You have the single most powerful device in the game. Yet you want it changed once again?
You can hide from anyone. You can get yourself into perfect positions, and using teamwork.. You can force your target to either just die, or immediately jump out of battle, effectively removing a ship from play..
You can fly into a fully defended planet, pop off a alpha or two on the little ships, get your kill point, and then cloak and get away scot free. I once watched as a k'luth dessie went through a enemy worm hole right into the midst of a entire fleet of ICC, then just.. Cloak and fly away as easy as you please.
You can even pretty much negate missles and especially fighters. This is especially unfair on your interdictors. How's a dread going to hope to scare off the ultimate sanctioned griefing tool of the game? Long range missles and fighters. What does the dictor do? Cloak and uncloak. Sure, you can escape at about that point, but there's always the bad luck of being pointed directly at a star or planet and don't have the time to turn your ship around for a safe escape.
You want beacon's changed? Why? Why do you want them dropped to Scouts and Frigates? Oh, right. Cause you can destroy them on one alpha.
There are two, only TWO counters I know of to the cloak. (Not counting that ECCM pinging, which I've never used or done). 1> Beacons. And that's only AFTER the k'luth ship has uncloaked and got his easy point blank alpha damage in. THEN You can hope to beacon them. IF said K'luth is smart enough to be swerving away and leaving at max range of your disruptors, you have a huge chance of dodging that fired beacon. And 2> Simply firing every weapon you have all around once you get an idea that there's a cloaked ship. And you know how effective that tends to be.
The amount of damage K'luth can dish out, and take, is very unbalanced. Two manidibles on any dread is more than enough to heavily damage that ship. An let's not bring in the 'team game' aspect of it all. We're looking at a game where one faction can position itself, free of threats, and then uncloak and fire.
Live with what you got and enjoy it. Leave the cloaks, and the beacons, alone. If you don't wanna be beaconed, fly cruisers, attack at max range, and swerve away immediately. Feel free to laugh as the little green beacon misses you entirely. Or heck, leave a beam or two dedicated to anti beacon PD.
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Rose.. couple of things i suppose.. rupters dont have PD, or at least mine dont  .. another thing is when we decloak, a ship has more than enough time to come about and alpha us before we can fire. Thats why ppl are saying cloak should be timed and decloak should be instant..
As far as i'm concerned about the beacons is that when ppl slap 342309480398 on you, it lags.. simple as that.
I understand the issues you may have with us sneaking around and stuff and positioning.. but all of that in a lag zone means nothing for now, so thats sort of at a standstill.
Peircers, cant stay cloaked while running dictors, too much power drained too fast.. so their pretty vulnerable
We cant jump while we're cloaked, so if we move in and attack someone camping a planet, chances are we're in the dictor and wont get out till over 1kgu, and like i said, with the decloak timer being as it is, we'd go out limping.. (depending on the force)
Not all of us are flying super mandy's unfortunatly, to everyones dismay.. a good portion of our assault force isnt confined to just them, they just steal all our hard worked kills
As for our damage take/dishing out.. thats a controversial discussion... Some say that we dont do enough dmg (peashooters) unless we're in fully modded dreads.. Subsequent to that, our shields/armour isnt as strong as you all might think.
Anyways, i didnt mean to pick on rose on that one post, but she addressed what most ppl are probably thinking and i thought i'd quote it. I'm sure i missed a few things and this isnt a flame, but this is just from what i've seen.
GG,GF,HF.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 00:29
sigh, ill explain it again since i was trying to convince luthies itd work in the lobby
fleet at enemy planet. most enemy fleets align around their leader on one side of a planet by nature
leaves gap on other side
jump 3k gu out
move in on sublight
pick outlying targets
kill said targets
run away
i havent seen a single kluth player open an attack like that, even tho its the most logical and easiest way. its so simple its stupid. its how i bomb the silly UGTO station fleets. its how i bomb YOUR silly station fleets. ive wiped maybe 8 planets right out from beneath entire fleets of kluth or ugto since patch, using destroyers. i did it once with a dreadnaught too. they didnt notice my dreadnaught attacking... which is pretty sad..,
u can also put out false targets. i had a supply go to a planet next to a luthie SY (since kluth seem to like killing supplies so much lately), silly kluth dreadnaught jumped it, i jumped planet, bombed planet, and left.
ive had entire combat fleets run the distraction. in nicea, about 8 destoyers jumped the UGTO fleet and drew them out, me and another bomber dread jumped in and began bombing. woulda worked if other bomber hadnt discoed.
its simple. its works. why havent u thought of it yet? whats wrong with you people? and i never said it was uber or invincible, just that it was foolproof. IE> the same sort of fools who jump lone supplies orbiting bombed enemy planets 2000gu away from an enemy SY...
UGTO seem pretty vulnerable to the lure tactic, their players have a tendancy to jump nething that moves. specially those EAD folk. ICC less so, since were the defensive faction and love our planets =)
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Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-20 00:39
Larky stick to your sheilds, leave the cloak tactics to kluth players
WinterRose the thing with beacons is that if you get hit while cloaked, you don't see the beacons rings AND you don't see an increase on your sig
Oh btw I alpha'd a Combat dessie with my mandi today, it took 3 alpha's from a dread to lower a shield facing on a destroyer. You want to talk about over powered devices?
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 00:52
ah, so, youre telling me attacking from behind doesnt work? =P somehow i dont beleive u. its possible for ME to be stealthy, and i dont have a cloak
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Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
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WinterRose
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 12, 2002
Posts: 126
From: WinterRose
| Posted: 2005-07-20 01:49
Do people just scan my posts? O.o
Uh, I already know about that. I know most of the situations. But I'm going from personal experience. Not what's on the paper.
Yes, I know piercer's can't have their dictors on while cloaked, and I said that in my earlier post. I know beacon rings won't appear, and I said that in a post after that one.
K'luth is a powerful faction. Without a extreme amount of teamwork, just one or two k'luth dreads can wreck havoc. This is my problem. DarkSpace is a teamwork game.
I just think, that all the complaining about being beaconed should be dropped. Every ship should be able to mount one. you're giving up a cannon slot for the only counter there is currently to a cloaked ship, and once again I repeat, this counter is ONLY feasible AFTER the k'luth has gotton his/her first strike.
PD wise, I've personally witnessed K'luth disruptors reach out and PD shoot a beacon numerous times.
If beacons MUST be changed, the first and foremost thing is fixing the hidden sensor rings when attaching to cloaked ships, just to stop the consideration of people that the other factions are exploting some bug.
I do think that, perhaps, beacon recharge before shooting again should be lengthened.
Namely, why not make beacons at level 1 have most ammo, but slowest projectile and current recharge time? When you max out the beacon's level, the projectile is faster, but has a far slower recharge time. Not fast enough that the luthy is going to be pretty much unable to PD it. But generally, making it where you either go for the slow beacon but the ability to spam it, or the super fast beacon, with the downside that if the luthy PD's the beacon, it's home free?
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-20 01:53
just a few pointers
turn the cloake / decloake around
instant decloake so kulth get the first shoot not the target
longer time delay to cloake depending on the amount of eccm in the area
let ships be able to cloake in jump, not as now first after comming out of it so , but still have to decloake to activate the jd.
this things will promote tha ability to first strike as they supposed to.
beacons yes / no they like fighters / core weapons should have an target to fire at before you actuly can launch them so only decloaked ships can be tagged.
reason when cloaked no counter messures against these types of weapons.
somone said kluth had to much armor lol well we only have 1 type of amor option, where icc / ugto have atleast 3 - 4 to select from,so its actuly kluth that should complain there , i wonder where the other types went from in beta
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WinterRose
Fleet Admiral
Joined: April 12, 2002
Posts: 126
From: WinterRose
| Posted: 2005-07-20 01:55
Not some bad ideas, Ragg, but really, taking away the ctrl-target clicking of beacon is silly. A good k'luth player won't jump in as close as the planet will allow, then cloak and make a beeline at their target, setting them up for a prime blind shooting of beacons. It's simple as that. Come in, cloak, veer immediately left or right for a bit, then come back around. They'll run out of beacon ammo before they'll hit the luthy ship.
The cloak you suggested WAS like that in beta for a short time, and I honostly thought it was fine this way. You got your first alpha, but your escape wasn't going to be all that easy in that kind of way. No idea why that was changed.
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-Viper-
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 55
From: UK
| Posted: 2005-07-20 04:54
Cloak is fine the way it is, people need to change their tactics instead of sitting round planets waiting for kluth to sneek up on them (ICC in MDs) because thats going to get you killed every time.
Also beacons need to be limited to 1 per ship as they were origionaly, people spam them and it just causes lag.
[ This Message was edited by: -Viper- on 2005-07-20 04:56 ]
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-20 06:23
i been playing the hit n run all along since i came back to ds even before the new version
1. made me one of the most hatet kluth players
2. with the way it functions now you cant hit, just run becaus you allready at 50 % armor before you get the first shoot on anyone you sneak upto
3. how the heck can anyone state that kluth dont team work thats how we survive ftm only reson, only fraction / fleet that can match the amount of teamwork done and inforced by kluth vets is UGTO/CEC
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Beast
Cadet
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: May 27, 2002
Posts: 345
From: Wouldnt you like to know
| Posted: 2005-07-20 06:53
You want a answer to cloak?? I,ll give you one.
A long long time ago in a version far far away. Scanners use to effect cloaked ships. Basically while cloaked if a person was running a scanner it would effect the energy on a KLuth ship forcing it to either uncloak or move away from the area/range of the scanner. The more scanners that was present the quicker the cloak would drain power.
As we all know any ship can mount a scanner. However a good way to balance this is for the scanner tobe a high energy consuming system. Another good way is to have planets be able to build scanner bases.
What does this do???
1. It still allows Kluth ships time to follow a fleet but only for so long it should either half to get back up or fall back. Being able to follow a fleet for any length of time is silly .
2. By being very energy consuming it doesnt allow the fleet to have it on all the time only when they think there being tail gated.
3.This would allow the ping thing to be removed and also to make it so Beacons dont stick to cloaked ships.
4. It still allows the Kluth the edge they need without making that edge Huber. Like most think it would possibley allow for there tobe no timers on kluth ships for decloaking and very short times recloaking depending on how the scanner thing could be worked out.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-20 07:49
Well Lark with the older system nobody complained about beacons because eccm affected them too. They were probably already visible, so beacons were no big deal.
Now, with cloak supposed to be foolproof and beacons being fired into random space in the hopes of hitting a cloaked ship, it's out of balance.
Beacons should not stick to a cloaked ship. That's the same as instant decloaking, which makes beacons a cheap and easy way to totally counter a very advanced piece of equipment (too advanced for humans to make).
If that simple change was made I'd be happy. Every time I've been beaconed it's been while cloaked from beacons being spammed.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-20 09:36
NO!!! to Instant Decloack.
NO!!! To ECCM Pinging.
Kluth are pretty fine the way they are right now.
Beacons are fine too.
Just remove the friggin eccm ping, that thing is messing everything up.
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