| Author |
New Idea for Cloak... |
Eagleranger
Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2002
Posts: 342
From: Ozark mountains
|  Posted: 2005-07-20 09:36
this is all im going to say about the beacons and cloak 1)beacons are fine the way they are 2)the cloak is fine the way it is
if you dont like being beaconed try flying a real ship that cant cloak see how you like it
you kluth whine to much imho
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Zepher
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 09, 2002
Posts: 181
From: San Antonio, Texas
| Posted: 2005-07-20 10:19
Issues on cloak… none. It is worse for the luth now because of the restrictions of the bloody thing! Actually, it may be better on a few things, but I haven’t played luth in this current version long enuf to tell what they are. A cloaking device is supposed to render the ship undetectable by standard scanners. Only planetary sensors and stations/dreads should have the capability to detect them. The idea of the luth was that they were the super alien race… too many players complain about how powerful they are. Stop the nagging and enjoy the game for what it is. Pure brilliance! I love this game, but too many of you are complaining about luth ships. The real complaint i have about luth ships are that they consume too much energy to sustain itself in a fight. Perhaps the elf beam should transfer the energy it sucks from the enemy and gives it to the person with the elf…. A certain percentage of power, of course… if they have a longer staying power in tight situations, they may prove to be a great faction to play. And maybe it has already been implimented into the elf ... Luth ships are not the “all powerfull” they have been downgraded in armor and energy usage of weapons, mainly ruptors… I used to love playen luth when I first started, then I realized how tuff it would be to go icc for a while. After about 20 ships getting blown away, cuz I like to stay and fight, CL2K’s from a Siphon used to mean getting pwned. Then I went uggy, and with my current fleet, I will stay uggy until the next culling… if the fleet don’t disband again. I play luth on occasions in scenario servers to just get the feel of it. Luth have it ruff now-a-days… but they could pwn in a pack! Well, there's my quarters worth of input, so my 2 cents wasn't enuf to cover the costs.
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2005-07-20 10:50
Quote:
| E) Kluth cloaks will no longer be like interdictors that you turn on and leave on to your hearts content. the cloak will have a set reload time like a torpedoe. the difference is, the entire time the cloak is "recharging" it is in effect, so your ship will stay cloaked for 20 minutes, decloak, then you would have to cloak again. the length of time this would be in effect would proportionally rise depending on ship hull class. |
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This is the second worst idea ever posted, next to the half hour jump times posted by Zurai, congratulations! I personally would jettison my cloaking device into space so I wouldnt end up hitting k instead of J and using it accidentally.
Quote:
| and learn how to play your own faction. if ud like, ill make a post with 12 good strategies on how to use kluth, ones that are practically foolproof and only stoppable by luck. ones that none of u have used so far. |
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That should be good for a laugh. Keep in mind k'luth don't generally outnumber their opponents 3-1 like icc do.
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jump 3k gu out
move in on sublight
pick outlying targets
kill said targets
run away
i havent seen a single kluth player open an attack like that,
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Jumping 3k out and moving in on sublight is standard procedure, most of us do it without even thinking. The reason you don't see it is because we normally cloak during the procedure. I shouldnt have to tell you that, but apparently I do. Picking outlying targets is generally useless, they are the tough, fast ships, and there is little purpose in killing them. The ones you want to kill are the dictors, supply ships and bombers in the center of the fleet. Not the assault cruisers. Generally we line up a target with an assault ship or two directly behind it, so that it soaks up the fire as FF. Its become more tricky now to move into the center of the fleet, since we are pinged and beacon spammed fairly quickly.
Ragglock, what makes you the most hated player on the kluth is not your hit and run tactics, its the fact that you bog down entire fleets with cheapish tactics. Nothing wrong with that, I just thought you should know.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 12:01
*bangs her head against a wall*
@zepher - no, luthies arent suppose to be the super alien race, the MIR are the super alien race that turned the luthies into refugees, which is why theyre here. theyre a playable faction. in NO good quality game will u find a group that everyone has access to that is blatantly better then any other. and also, NO kluth shouldnt have more armour. they are HIT AND RUN. as it is, kluth ships still seem to be able to stick around for too long in a fight uncloaked. for some reason noone seems to get the fact that kluth arent supposed to be able to stand one for one against another ship of the same class for over a minute or 2.
@nopants, guess what, it was a suggestion. youre supposed to build creatively on it.
also, no, ive noticed kluth still has a small playerbase... seems strange to me tho that that smaller base outnumbered us in kapteyns yesterday about 5-1... and btw, i was playing ICC when it was roughly 8-1 and we were facing down 30 UGTO/Kluth every day with 3 systems left, so i know alllll about minimalistic tactics. i know more about hit and run then you give me credit more. Back when people were complaining luthie dreads were useless, i chased off 2 ACs with a siphon.... so yeh, im real funny eh?
also (agian), talking to some luthies in a lobby, apparently they beleive 3k gu isnt far enough, and coming in any farther out is a waste of time... so apparently your faction doesnt beleive what youre saying? and attacking the outlying ships is the smartest thing to do, u know why?
A) the outmost ship is, yes probably rather big
B) it isnt in a place where decloaking will, oh... put u in a place surrounded by ships... with beacons and that sort of thing... cause thatd be a dumb idea wouldnt u think?
C) most likely this outlying ship is outlying, IE doesnt have much support for it, probably a little vulnerable. id imagine if it were outlying, it would also be a shorter distance for u to cover to get out of the planets dictor field
why does this all seem like common sense? 2 mandis can essentially take a dreadnaught out of action, u can field more then 2 ships right? im pretty sure u can, you certainlly had enough ships last night.
ok, so now you have a tactic that nabs u a dreadnaught kill on one run... would u like to discuss how beacons are the doom of the game next?
@ sparkle, no, we beaconed people in the older versions to to track them. they didnt complain. infact, i dont think there was much complaining at all, before they just sucked it up and kept playing. now youve all got issues, because your cloak is better? why are u saying your cloak is supposed to be invincible? thats like saying *hey, we should have something that completely unbalances the game in our favour* ... there always has to be a counter to everything, thats how games WORK, look at total annhilation, best RTS EVER made by many accounts, nukes are the best weapon in the game, can level an entire base... no counter to a nuke right? WRONG, interception missiles can shoot it down.
who wants go go next?
PS: id list the reasons why people on ICC hate ragglock, but then the thread would probably be locked. if youd like to know ragglock, i can list them to u in whisper, but i wont start an argument with u
[ This Message was edited by: Lark Of Eternity {C?} on 2005-07-20 12:04 ]
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-20 12:43
the issue with beacons isn't that people are using them, it's that when they hit a cloaked ship - the cloaked ship receives no intel that it's been beaconed, no visual effect, no rise in sig.
as for tactics...
jumping in 3k or further out and driving is great. I've done it many times when outnumbered. Except for one thing, ICC players in general are antsy. They see a ship decloaking around them they alpha and jump out, leaving their support ships hanging in the breeze. Then they proceed to yell at or PM you about going after lowly supplies or noobs. When fighting UGTO, they in general seem to have a disregard for FF and flood the area with fire regardless of who they will hit. So the best tactic is speed, get in smash the traget as hard and as quick as you can and get out of Dodge.
The cloak isn't the end all be all tech. I has it's draw backs and it has some advantages. Right now some of the advantages are hindered by bugs in the game and these are overcome by adopting extremely aggressive tactics, which you have witnessed.
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Phoebuzz
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 110
| Posted: 2005-07-20 13:01
Quote:
| On 2005-07-20 09:36, Eagleranger wrote:
this is all im going to say about the beacons and cloak 1)beacons are fine the way they are 2)the cloak is fine the way it is
if you dont like being beaconed try flying a real ship that cant cloak see how you like it
you kluth whine to much imho |
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If you don't have a clue about something, don't post about it.
Quote:
| On 2005-07-20 10:19, Zepher {C?} wrote:
Issues on cloak… none. |
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Issues on cloak:
- ECCM can detect cloak (even better in 1.483.4).
- Nav Map bug can detect cloaked ships.
- Visible but not targetable cloaked ship bug.
- Beacons can be spammed from any standard mount.
- Cloaked, cloaking or decloaking ships can't attack or PD, but cloaked ships can be attacked.
- Cloak takes a LOT of energy (0.5 e/s base + hull modifier), stock K'luth scouts can't even stay cloaked when not moving without losing energy.
[ This Message was edited by: Phoebum on 2005-07-20 13:02 ]
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Phoebuzz
Grand Admiral
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 110
| Posted: 2005-07-20 13:07
Quote:
| On 2005-07-20 12:01, Lark Of Eternity {C?} wrote:
now youve all got issues, because your cloak is better? why are u saying your cloak is supposed to be invincible? |
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The new cloak isn't better, it's supposed to be different than the old cloak, but is actually alot worst.
The new cloak costs ALOT more energy and you can't fire while cloaked, cloaking or decloaking, it should be hard to detect but actually is very easy to detect with all the bugs.
The old cloak used little energy and could fire while cloaked, the old cloak was easy to detect but harder if you did something about it (use ECM).
So the new cloak is all disadvantage and no advantage over the old cloak.
And you even want that nerfed, get a clue.
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-20 13:10
as i have writen in another thread
Cloak drain has been increased it have been futher uped with last version most stok ships cant move 1/3 speeds without losing power
not to say that the scouts cant cloake at all
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 13:44
yes phoe, and we all loved being destroyed by ships that we could never target. the cloak is better, lets go over it point by point, shall we?
A) the cloak cant be exploited using ECM bases, IE, no more invisible untargetable vessels destroying ships without any chance of return fire
B) yes, the energy drain is up. this decreases your speed on APPROACH by a bit, doesnt it? well, i suppose since you are basically completely invisible if u come in nice and slowly and methodically for your kill, and dont give away your position at all, so that we can spam beacons, then it doesnt really matter does it?
C) ECCM cant permanently light up cloak nemore. nuff said. ECCM pinging is arguably nonexistent. guess what phoe? after running ECCM for 20 minutes straight, i didnt see ONE kluth ship. not ONE. please explain why ECCM pinging is so bad if i cant see one kluth ship with it? am i not doing it properly?
D) beacons are the exact same as they were a couple patches ago. they dont need to be changed, they dont need a weaker more vulnerable platform to be mounted on, 2 mandis can tear apart a dreadnaught, so a beacon dreadnaught is already vulnerable enough as it is. you are allowed to have teammates running PD for u. you are allowed to use teamwork. use your brains to find tactical solutions, not whine about it in forums
do you have any other arguments? im 90% sure i can find a counter to every single one.
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BipBipBip
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2005-07-20 13:58
Err...
no to offend anyone or anything but...
I kill a lot of ICC (cruisers, dreads, supply ships, etc) not because their ships are weak or my lvl 10 Mandy is uber... I kill them because most of them kinda... mhhh... how do I say this without hurting anyone's feelings... stink at flying their ships?
And you are not doing the ECCM ping correctly.
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BipBipBip
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2005-07-20 14:12
Let me try again...
When this patch was released we had to adapt to the new kluth.
I did it and it's working, what you are asking is that we accept bugs that are not supposed to be there simply because you refuse to adapt to the way the new ICC is supposed to be / work.
We got nerfed in several aspects because we were supposed to get the new undetectable cloak, but guess what ? We did not get it.
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NoPants2win
Cadet
Joined: February 23, 2002
Posts: 1275
From: Poorly ventilated paint storage facility.
| Posted: 2005-07-20 14:17
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@nopants, guess what, it was a suggestion. youre supposed to build creatively on it.
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Foundations too poor to allow for building.
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| why does this all seem like common sense? |
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Probably because your experience in the field is limited.
Quote:
| C) most likely this outlying ship is outlying, IE doesnt have much support for it, probably a little vulnerable. id imagine if it were outlying, it would also be a shorter distance for u to cover to get out of the planets dictor field |
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Possibly but theres no point to it. Destroying a lone n00b ac wont get you far.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-20 14:25
A) pls tell me where anyone said kluth cloak was supposed to be undetectable
B) in case u havent heard, it was the admins that allowed ECCM pinging to stay, and again, to my knowledge it doesnt do very much to actually detect anyone. so what bugs are you talking about?
C) im ignoring nopants, because evidently to him 3 years of gaming isnt enough experience in the field, and he doesnt know anything about tactics.
[ This Message was edited by: Lark Of Eternity {C?} on 2005-07-20 14:31 ]
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Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-07-20 14:33
Quote:
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On 2005-07-20 14:25, Lark Of Eternity {C?} wrote:
A) pls tell me where anyone said kluth cloak was supposed to be undetectable
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- Cloaking device has been refactored. A cloaked ship can never be detected now, unless it has a beacon attached
Quote:
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B) in case u havent heard, it was the admins that allowed ECCM pinging to stay, and again, to my knowledge it doesnt do very much to actually detect anyone
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ECCM pinging hardly gives them away, and hardly allows us to target them. Yet beacons do.
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BipBipBip
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2005-07-20 14:39
I feel that the Admins allowed ECCM ping to stay only because they do not have a quick fix for it and they cannot enforce people to stop using it, they would have to ban 2/3 of the playerbase!.
But I am sure that when the devolpers started the "balance" of the factions, they did not take into account the fact that...
A) ECCM ping allows you to detect cloaked ships.
B) ECCM ping allows you to target and shoot at cloaked ships.
C) At least in my mandy I still have to wait 9 seconds to either shoot you back or E jump when you ECCM ping me.
D) A cloaked ship has no way to tell it has been beaconed while cloaked, only until you start shooting and yes, (in case of my mandy) still have to wait 9 seconds before either shoot back or run.
Those things were not considered when the balance was made, therefore, you do have an unfair advantage.
You want a quick fix ?
Sure! Let the beacons and ECCM ping stay that way, keep the cloak timers as they are now BUT give us INSTANT DE-cloak. That way at least we can run before getting killed.
That would balance things out.
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