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Bombing Balance Issue |
Sevnn
Cadet
Joined: March 15, 2002
Posts: 23
|  Posted: 2005-07-23 03:52
I'm returning to DS after a 1 1/2 or so absence. I played for a few minutes in the MV but it was a bit too unfamililar so I dropped back to the Scenario server to get a handle on things. While there I witnessed what I can only hope is an exploited bug of some sort.
I spent approximately 45 minutes building/defending Junction and Ahaza and had built them up pretty well. This is until I witnessed the aforementioned event.
I was playing UGTO and an ICC bomber frigate (not a destroyer) jumped in near Ahaza. He started his bombing run covering his bombs with his shields. I was only able to detonate a few of his mirvs. When the rest hit it cleared the planet of all of my 32 inf and over 1/2 of my buildings.
The second such event happened shortly after on Junction. This time the planet was protected by 4 defense bases. The same bomber frigate jumped in and started his bombing run. This time myself, another pilot, and the def bases were able to detonate about 1/2 of his mirvs. The other 1/2 made it through the planet defenses and cleared the planet of everything but a single def base.
Approximately 10-15 minutes later I had rebuilt Ahaza and set it up with 5 def bases. The same bomber frigate jumped in again and started his run just like before. I was able to detonate about 1/3 of his mirvs before he reached range of planetary defenses. The defense bases hit a few of his mirvs but not near as many as they should have. Once again my planet was wiped to almost nothing.
I'm not making this post to start an arguement nor to question the direction you are taking DS, but if a single bomber frigate can take out a well defended planet (comparitvely) with little or no trouble whatsoever, I would say the balance has taken a sharp turn south. The amount of work required to destroy base emplacements should be comparable to the amount of work required to put those emplacements in. I can understand a bomber such as this should be able to get a bomb or 2 through a planetary defense grid but it should not be capable of wiping the planet clean.
On a side note, when did bombing change from actually targetting assets on the planet to targeting the planet itself and damaging everything on the planet? Perhaps I'm just old fashioned but I really preferred the time when bombing took alot of skill and even more luck to get good results. Now newb players can hit the unpopulated backside of a planet and cause damage on the opposite side of the planet. I fail to see the "realism" created from this change.
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2005-07-23 03:56
there is a bug, where bombs hit a "threshhold" and their splash dmg widens to cover the entire planet. Tael is working on it, so dont worry.
if its any concellation, Avetorian tested out PSMs, and apparently 3 of them hitting a planet kill 2 population and thats it -.- i hope thats getting fixed too
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-23 06:49
well fact is it gets higly exploitet by icc and ugto
no one cares
no one can see the wrong in it, as long they get easy prestige from it.
single bomber dressyes taking out hole planets with 14 lvl 3 defence clears them completly in 1 run
ugto bombers doing the same.
and guess who pays, that we lack fire power and man power to fight it.
the nerfing on allmost everything and the amount of defective ships chaced most kluth players away, so its to week there to.
and 1 ship can lvl it all
well devs only listen to barkey that say we still to strong what ever ..
who cares im probaly soon gona be last man left on kluth with no planets left 
happy thaughts happy thaughts
[ This Message was edited by: Ragglock {BUM in Disguise} on 2005-07-23 07:12 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-23 07:16
Kluth has lost all but 37 planets today due to continued use of this bug.
But I guess as long as it is Kluth getting exploited against, that's ok.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-07-23 07:23
Quote:
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On 2005-07-23 06:49, Ragglock {BUM in Disguise} wrote:
well fact is it gets higly exploitet by icc and ugto
no one cares
no one can see the wronk in it as long they get easy prestige from it
single bomber dressyes taking out hole planets with 14 lvl 3 defence cleas them completly in 1 run
ugto bombers doing the same
and guess who pays that we lack fire power and man power to fight it
the nerfing chaced most kluth players away so its to week there to
and 1 ship can lvl it all
well devs only listen to barkey that say we still to strong what ever
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Took me about five minutes but I think I know what hes talking about.
A. Kluth can do the same if not better with the clavate.
B. Thats your fault, NOT the games fault, if your undermanned, Its total bull the Klut hare underpowered.
This "nerfing" as you put it kinda makes the Kluth what their supposed ot be, I think even if you could reload while cloaked again youd start whining about something else too..
Yes one ship can level it all that should be fixed...
Im also going to guess that your talking about Backslash. I doubt very strongly they listen soley to him and what his opinions of the game are. I also doubt that the Kluth are as weak as you say they are, mostly because I have at one point flown Kluth myself.
In all truth, before this becomes a flame war, I am going to say what I Believe and leave it at that.
I believe that all the Kluth are running away pissy because your whining about no longer have the most godamn uber ships in the game isn't going to bring them back.
Bringing in 1.480 and every damn patch after really gave Kluth the idea their meant to be uber, with no weaknessness at all.
These "nerfs" As you put them, are in fact, FINNALLY, FREAKING FINALLY, implementing weaknesses that Kluth have oh so long lacked. Im sorry, you guys should NOT get the most powerweapons, ALONG with quick recharge rates, the highest energy capactiys, an altogether unbreakable cloak no matter what, thickest armor of all ships ever.
Kluth should NOT be a faction with completely uber ships with no apparent weakness, if you don't like it, then quit and let a newb who can actually adapt easier than a bunch of whiny Kluth veterens fill your spot.
Im wholey sick of the constant bull Kluth players dish out about their ships, for the first godamn time since Kluth had no armor, Kluth are actually on a level field to human ships, and whiney vets too used to be all own all tactics are the only ones I see complain about it.
Enough is enough, move freaking on. Somethings need to be bloody tweaked like decloaking/recloaking, beacons, and reloading, but beyond that, you all should be damn proud of the ships you got, and stop complaining for damn five minutes to see if you can adapt to version where you need actual SKILL to win.
This is the most blatent and straightforeward post I have ever made, mostly because im already pissed from the amount of complaints I hear about the game, and partly, im tired of the whining I hear from Kluth. They used to tell us to stop whining about their actual imbalences, like flux/elf boats, with their ECM forting and their damned CL boats.
So im put this here for any Kluth player, or any damn player who whines CONSTANTLY about ship balence, including me about my EAD.
Quit your whining, anything your whining about now that isn't already planned to change isn't going to do a damn thing other than piss off people more. So instead of acting like five year olds never getting their way, just shutup, move along, and please spare us the headache of another damn whine, you cant have the best ships always, so GET OVER YOURSELF, AND ADAPT.
~Fin.
-Ent
(P.S. Flame all you like, just adds more problems.)
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-23 07:31
just continue pretend nothing is wrong right
happy happy thaughts
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-23 07:33
No. I will tell the devs constantly they screwed up
I will tell the humans such as yourselves that you are full of DUNG if you trully believe all that you wrote
I will tell you humans that you are full of it because you don't play the faction you are saying is just fine.
AND I WILL CONTINUE BECAUSE IT PISSES YOU OFF!
How do you think we feel about this?
Riddle me this, dumbass; Why has Kluth gotten steadily WEAKER when the other factions continue to get stronger??????!!!!!!!
Smoke that for a while.
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-23 07:41
Days from some say " kluth have to buged / strong XXXXX" to nerf 1
Days from some say "icc/ugto have to buged/ strong XXXXX" to nerf 365
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2005-07-23 07:47
Kluth don't have the bombing capability that ICC and UGTO have. The clavate is decent with 3 bomb slots, so is the ganglia, but they don't compare to something like ICC"s bomber dreadnaught.
And Kluth planets have a very hard time PDing with long=-reloadtime assault disruptors.
Add the fact that it's very easy for a station or agincourt carrier to use 8 fighter bombers (that always get their bombs to hit) to slowly but surely destroy a non-ICC planet and we have an unbalance.
Bomb damage I know is getting fixed. But until then Kluth are gonna get smacked around. And it's gonna cause people to faction jump. A few already have.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-07-23 07:54
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On 2005-07-23 07:33, Nerf!! wrote:
No. I will tell the devs constantly they screwed up
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That really solves alot of problems...
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I will tell the humans such as yourselves that you are full of DUNG if you trully believe all that you wrote
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I believe what I experience : Kluth ships being, STILL being, able to get to my hull on a maxed dread is what I experience.
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I will tell you humans that you are full of it because you don't play the faction you are saying is just fine.
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I bet you really didn't read the part where I said I also played on these other factions myself.
Didn't think so.
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AND I WILL CONTINUE BECAUSE IT PISSES YOU OFF!
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Pretty constructive that is...
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How do you think we feel about this?
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Pissed because you no longer have the uber ships you've had since 1.480?
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Riddle me this, dumbass; Why has Kluth gotten steadily WEAKER when the other factions continue to get stronger??????!!!!!!!
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Common sense shoulda answered that one : Kluth ships are vastly superior in ALL aspects of gameplay compared to human ships.
Because of this, Kluth ships were nerfed, while Human ships were beefed, and what we have are now all 3 factions having their own strengths and weaknesses.
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Smoke that for a while.
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Smoke this.
One thing Kluth players, that I have rarely ever seen taken into account, is other factions. When it comes to deciding what they want in their ships, I have never seen a K'luth say:
"Reduce the DAs recharge/energy drain, also to balence things, do the same for the HCL on human ships."
Its all me me me.
Take into account how WE feel about it. Take into account, how it effects gameplay as a whole, remember that if your Kluth ships had more armor, and more energy, here is the following scenario.
If a K'luth Dreadnought had one more layer of armor, they would be equivlent to UGTO Dreadnought Armor. If Kluth in addition, had more powerful weapons, along with as much energy as UGTO Dreadnoughts do, lets take something into the following account.
You have this cloak, nothing can penetrate it, not even beacons, lets say.
This Cloak takes little, if any, energy to maintain. You can cruise easily at maximum speeed.
With this cloak, it sneaks up behind a UGTO fleet of 3 ships. Lets say 2 Cruisers and a Dreadnought.
The Kluth Dreadnought, lets say the Mandible, focus's all its power, instantly as it deloaks on the first cruiser. Due to the mandies incredible power, it gets through to his hull on the first shot, and sends him running.
The Kluth Dreadnought cloaks again after taking heavy fire, but wait, that extra layer of armor regenerates quickly, and took very little damage. As such when it decloaks again for the second cruiser, its sent fleeing as well, and it hides again until its fully repaired.
Now lets say the UGTO Dreadnought is a BD. It is in all ways, the UGTO most powerful Anti-Capital ship.
The Mandi decloaks once more, with a full alpha, and goes through the UGTOs armor in one alpha, meanwhile, the BD swivels around, able to bring most of its guns to bear, doing all of 10% armor damage to one arc.
After 2 Alphas from the BD, the Mandi alphas once again, and goes through both layers again to the hull.
The UGTO BD continues this until there is little armor left, and the Mandi sits still all the while, pounding into the UGTO Dread, with little or no effort except mashing the spacebar, until the UGTO dread runs while the Mandi at best may have one armor arc damaged.
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Thats just one scenario if the K'luth were probably how most vet envison it.
Now for the Kluth pilot their happy, their uber ship that can take on 3 ships easily without much of a scratch, piece of cake!
However for the human guys, what about us? What advantages do we have anymore if Kluth has them all? Whats the point of playing UGTO if you will always lose, even with teamwork?
The answer is simple : Kluth need to have some weaknesses, in order to make other factions playable.
Smoke on that a little while...
-Ent
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-23 08:39
well to quote the roc
"taking advantage of weaknesses in the game system or content in order to gain an unfair advantage over other players"
well 1 planet lvled by 1 - 2 mirv bombs think that falls into this
and a hile lot of players gaining a hole lot of prestige just crash bombing stock ships into planets to do this.
and totaly ingnore the babbling from the current ugto defender of the exploiters.
so when do the mirvs get fixed ? becaus there is 20 kluth planets not lvled yet so better hurry up with the fix
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-07-23 09:13
Quote:
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On 2005-07-23 06:49, Ragglock {BUM in Disguise} wrote:
well fact is it gets higly exploitet by icc and ugto
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Yeah right...So Wth was that a week ago when the Kluth and Ugto had the ICC down to a few systems???
Let me guess, you all just threw infantry at the planet untill the planet said enough?
Ragg,. This bomb bug has been in this game for more than 2 years. We all have exploited this bombing style. Even your hands arent clean on this.
This bombing style has a name.. its called Stack/ Cloud bombing..
Bombs got stronger.. the Dmg bug effect got stronger with it..
Deathstar sized worlds were the ones effected 2 years ago. Now its that and larger planets.
btw
dont you think scrapping a buildng from a distance is an Exploit? huh ragglock..
-Charz
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Ragglock
Marshal
BIOnics Industry Syndicate
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 1955
From: Denmark
| Posted: 2005-07-23 10:01
1 bomber dest / cruzz without surply or fleet backup
1 planet with all lvl 3 defence
1 mirv hit planet wiped not a cloud
you guys still insist that is right to you die
lol i can only laugh at it becaus it so rediculus
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Quickening
Cadet
Joined: July 23, 2005
Posts: 3
| Posted: 2005-07-23 10:11
I just watched, as a UGTO, as three different bombers eached bombed planets. All three were wiped clean in a single run. One pilot was even bragging about how much pres he was gaining due to the fact they could wipe planets in one run.
I only saw one with a supply, and he actually died.
Something doesn't seem right there.
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-Smokey-
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 22, 2004
Posts: 784
From: Florida
| Posted: 2005-07-23 10:13
who ever think they kluth are underarmed are out of their mind manadible slams all those rupters on my side and my ad's armor will turn red do it again and u gotta run do to dropping in ur hull, and ur planets defenses dotn have great pd but my fully modded command carrier got to 23 hull by the rupter hitting it while rotating shields and if there is a kluth there when u bomb they finish u off kluth really arent underarmed
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