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I'm NOT removing ship modding... |
BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2005-07-27 17:19
*smiles*
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-07-27 17:26
/me Cheers for Faustus!
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Tael
2nd Rear Admiral
Palestar
Joined: July 03, 2002
Posts: 3695
From: San Francisco Bay Area
| Posted: 2005-07-27 17:57
I've already got a skeletal system worked out that will work with this concept...
And to force rolls back into the ships, going to look at rebreaking the slots up.
ie weapons might be:
Projectile
Projectile Heavy
Beam
Beam Heavy
Missile
Missile Heavy
Torpedo
Torpedo Heavy
Special Weapon
I'll have to go back through and make sure there is a clear distinction in devices, you'll only be able to replace one style of beam with another. ie, Flux beam with CL Standard. Particle Cannons and Gauss, etc...
Each hull type will have modifiers to go with the change and removal of the level system.
As now Hulls have modifiers for power, thrust, shields, armor, they will include modifiers for all devices. This means the base weapon files will remain simplified and changes can be made to modifiers for each ships hull. ie:
Scout
Tranny
Engineer
Frigate
Supply
Destroyer
Cruiser
Dread
Dread2
Station
A scout might have something like this:
SensorMod == 10
BeamMod == 1
A Dread would look like:
SensorMod == 2
BeamMod == 10
Bigger ships, more damage and range...
This will probably take me a month to work out the numbers once F and I come to an agreement on which route to take...
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lightning[Voyager][ A ]
Cadet
Joined: August 04, 2004
Posts: 419
From: CANADA. QUEBEC
| Posted: 2005-07-27 18:17
I am very please from this decision, it will greatly reduce the time waiting for a single part, also but make it easy, Ships will be more qual in some for. For this, i give you my great respect in your decision faustus.
This , for as far i car imagine it, is the best decision made since 1.483.
Ty, for this great idea of making our game experience fun and simple more as before.
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-07-27 18:32
Question - does this mean that the ship layouts will remain the same with just modifications to the slot IDs? I ask this because I, for one, love my EMP/Psi/AMTorp battle cruiser, or will the layouts be adjusted to better suit ship roles (IE BC becomes missiles/cannons & TC becomes torps/beams - all perminantly) and how open to input will any new ship layouts be?
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Darkspace: Twilight
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Trekkie_zero
Cadet
Joined: October 14, 2003
Posts: 146
From: A state with too many A\'s....
| Posted: 2005-07-27 18:59
I have to say this looks cool, I like how it will provide every type of ship a specific purpose.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2005-07-27 19:03
*claps hands*
Tael: dont forget to include option for bigger ships to sacrifice firepower for weapons that can be used efficiently against smaller ship.
AKA smaller guns with better tracking but less power (so they are usefull vs small ships but wont realy be effecktive against Bigger Ships.)
It would be nice to have another option than "close jump and hit spacebar asap" ^^
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Drow
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 06, 2003
Posts: 449
From: USA, WI
| Posted: 2005-07-27 19:39
/me still yells out : No ship should be killed in one alpha! (unless it is a scout vs station) Cripple the ships super bad, 1 hull, mass system damage, but a chance to his E-jump!
Or are we trying to scare the newb away/ force them to do nothing but build/suply?
Perhaps the smaller the ship the stronger the armor/shield? Obviously not super stong, use common sense.
Or a chance to miss? It is a small ship, and if it is moving fast enough... Missels have about a 1% chance of hitting a scout flying full speed in a circle. Why can't the targeting computer for beams miss if its moving that fast? If only 1/2 the beams hit, that would help a scout live.
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Ardoh
Cadet
Joined: July 07, 2005
Posts: 9
From: Kirkland, WA
| Posted: 2005-07-27 20:04
Quote:
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On 2005-07-27 19:39, Drow wrote:
/me still yells out : No ship should be killed in one alpha! (unless it is a scout vs station) Cripple the ships super bad, 1 hull, mass system damage, but a chance to his E-jump!
Or are we trying to scare the newb away/ force them to do nothing but build/suply?
Perhaps the smaller the ship the stronger the armor/shield? Obviously not super stong, use common sense.
Or a chance to miss? It is a small ship, and if it is moving fast enough... Missels have about a 1% chance of hitting a scout flying full speed in a circle. Why can't the targeting computer for beams miss if its moving that fast? If only 1/2 the beams hit, that would help a scout live.
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Bad idea, then the fact that someone who worked hard to get that uber ship will not be able to take out a scout stupid enough to get in range of those beams, is just, well, stupid. I'm not playing eve again.
Perhaps add something to login for noobs, letting them know about the deadlyness of getting close to a large ship that maybe have lots of beams on it.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-07-27 20:05
Quote:
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/me still yells out : No ship should be killed in one alpha! (unless it is a scout vs station) Cripple the ships super bad, 1 hull, mass system damage, but a chance to his E-jump!
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Simply enough, Assault dreadnoughts and stations will likely, at point blank, do the most damage.
Quote:
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Or are we trying to scare the newb away/ force them to do nothing but build/suply?
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No but it keeps you alive longer...
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Perhaps the smaller the ship the stronger the armor/shield? Obviously not super stong, use common sense. |
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Common sense would tell you bigger ships have thicker armor...
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Or a chance to miss? It is a small ship, and if it is moving fast enough... Missels have about a 1% chance of hitting a scout flying full speed in a circle. Why can't the targeting computer for beams miss if its moving that fast? If only 1/2 the beams hit, that would help a scout live.
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This is actually a pretty sensible idea. The idea that beams can miss is an excellent way to help.
However.
I am fully and unanimously against making small ships strong. This isn't to make them easy kills, its to keep balence. Logic, in all god knows it form, tells you that a bigger ship is gonna have more armor, more weapons, more powerful weapons, more energy, but slower, and bulkier and easier to hit.
Newbies, for all you out there who believe small ships should be able to take on direct firepower from cruisers and dreadnoughts, consider your advantages.
You are :
- Faster.
- Quicker.
- More manueverable.
Not only does this mean you can outrun a larger ship, you can also out manuever it, and dodge its weapons, as long as you don't get close enough into beam range. The one, massive mistake newbies make is they stand still and standing still is why you die.
Getting close is also another factor. "OMG THEY CAN CLOSE JUMP ME THO OMG OM OMG". Yes they can, and the way to counter that is to ejump away (it should take at leas 5 or 6 seconds of fire to kill a ship) or just keep going until your out of weapons range.
Above all, one ship from a smaller class can do damage, however they cannot single-handedly take down a larger ship.
After all, if it could do that, whats the point of getting a larger ship?
-Ent
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Diabo|ik
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2002
Posts: 327
From: Quebec, Canada
| Posted: 2005-07-27 21:59
quote :
"Above all, one ship from a smaller class can do damage, however they cannot single-handedly take down a larger ship. "
I disagree, a scout with a good pilot/skills VS a frigate with an avg pilot/skills should be able to destroy the frigate and a good frigate pilot should be able to take down an avg destroyer pilot etc etc...
Right now it isn't even an option because of the shield/armor modifiers ( that affects already high values, I bet lvl10 armors dont have only 20000 hitpoints now ( on the old 1480 scale ), but more like 60000 ) for each class and the huge difference in firepower going from one class to the other.
The only thing that shouldn't be taken down by only 1 ship less than it's class is the station. A dread shouldn't be able to take down a station 1 on 1, but a cruiser should be able to take down a dread 1 on 1.
Right now it's, the bigger I am, the badder I am, it's not the darkspace we always knew, that was, the smarter I am, the bigger the target I can engage and kill and maybe get out alive if I play my cards correctly as it always used to be.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2005-07-28 00:55
[quote]
On 2005-07-27 21:59, Diabum|ik wrote:
quote :
"Above all, one ship from a smaller class can do damage, however they cannot single-handedly take down a larger ship. "
Quote:
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I disagree, a scout with a good pilot/skills VS a frigate with an avg pilot/skills should be able to destroy the frigate and a good frigate pilot should be able to take down an avg destroyer pilot etc etc...
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When I stated the above, I meant, if you were to stand still and fight back and forth, the smaller class should never win.
However with skills, any ship can beat virtually any ship. I am in favor of the idea of requireing skill to beat larger ships, rather than mash the alpha.
-Ent
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-07-28 04:57
I am all for this as long as the faction techs stay with the faction. The only exception should be if you salvage mods from another faction's wreckage.
Well, this is a step back the right way. If the pres loss/gain gets revamped, I may begin parting with my 10 bucks a month again. But for now, I will have to remain unsubbed.
Oh. And personally, for me the first clue this was gonna be a BAD version, was in beta when I tried to kill Charz in his sensor frig with my station. 20 alphas, witnessed by others, and I got 3 ticks of his shield. That is just a bit much. We need real balance. Not "make Backslash happy" balance.
Az
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal(Kluth) on 2005-07-28 04:59 ]
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Deleted
Chief Marshal
Joined:
Posts: 0
| Posted: 2005-07-28 05:48
getting personal eh?
you got a point tough:p
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Danek Ma`arna C`arns
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 102
From: Atlanta
| Posted: 2005-07-28 08:08
Balance is...
If both sit still and shoot, the larger ship should win.
If equally skilled and moving, the larger ship should win.
If the smaller vessel is flown with a little more skill, the larger vessel should still win.
It should take considerablly more skill to defeat a much larger ship... one of two classes or more higher, with the smaller vessel.
However, 2 or 3 small vessels, even frigates, should be able to take down a lone Dread2. At this point, we are talking about players, not ships.
I will make a comment on what some refer to as skill...
Trying to remain in the rear arc is skill. Trying to remain out of "Beam Range" is not skill. It is a fool's errand. Keep in mind the auto levels being implemented... larger vessels will have more damage with the same weapons, and more range with the same weapons, while mounting more of the weapons, and having stronger protection for return fire.
All the smaller craft can do, currently, is try to fly at full speed and change course often to avoid enemy fire WHILE closely watching the range to target to reamin in the very tight confines of maximum weapon range of the crap they are given and the outside beam range of the larger vessel WHILE trying to remain shooting at the same location of a vessel because their protection is so dang thick WHILE playing in the same lag that makes you ram that slow moving dread into a 3k gu distant planet.
At least it's not tough.
Give the smaller ships the same or nearly the same protection as the larger vessels. No one wants to be destroyed in one alpha... no one wants to have to EJump after every alpha. No one can remain outside of the "Beam Range" because beam range is the same as weapon range. Ships are still loaded with full arc or at least a full range of arcs for weapons, making the rear just as dangerous.
Larger vessels have more range on weapons, more damage on weapons, and more weapons, total. Given that, they will still win, 1v1, against a smaller vessel.
However, just keep on being able to completely ignore smaller vessels, destroy them as an after thought when you get around to it, and protect your "old timers" interests. You know, the same people who have not actually paid since 2003 and sit in your lobby badmouthing the game to everyone who comes in. These are your customer base. Even they wonder why there are so few people to ignore and destroy. Having a smaller pond for the little fish is not the answer, it just makes things worse.
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