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482 vs 483.... |
Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
|  Posted: 2005-09-07 21:25
480 was total awesome in that..you had mod planets.....you had inf planets......you had DEATHSTARS THAT TOOK TEAMSWORK to kill.awesome combat at all times..481 was just as awesome for the amount of lag that killed the above...482 killed it more.......this version.......well...look at the rosters of then and now.......enough said.
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-09-08 06:39
I remember deathstars... barely... those were fun to try & kill 
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Darkspace: Twilight
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$milingJ35te|2™{=21st=}[R33HG]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 10, 2002
Posts: 310
From: smilingjester
| Posted: 2005-09-08 07:34
well lets see here, i was told that stack bombing was removed, due to the "lag issues" it caused. to me this whole new quick "fix" patch is an absolute travesty, there is more issues from lag, from all the def bases now, i was doing a inf drop got swarmed but planet def, then glitch 30secs later glitch 30 more seconds later...ur ship has been destroyed, i dont waste my time whinning and complaining about lag, and i want my 150 res lost back or anything stupid lke that, but really gets me, is that bombing those deathstars, and wiping a planet clear from a 200 mirv cloud that u started 1800 gus out was totally satsfying, seeing a huge fleet of ship move from system to system, sitting outside a gate cloaked, and watching a fleet of ugto eads bd and cds ( the lone ugto bomber dread that could supp it self) man that was a sight, but i havent seen that lately, hrmmm i wonder why? ok, the "twoweeks" patch came out 2 years later, we lost a god chunk of people from waiting for said "two weeks" patch, then it came out, and bang, the DS population of subbed active MV players dropped to less then half, next patch came out, some of the players we lost came back to see if it got any better... nope... leave again but more leave with them, lemme guess? "two weeks" right? and wow, as someone said 10,000 times the lag, harder to kill ships, and instead of making a few ships on each faction "ubbAr!!1" we are going to bump up the stats of everyship to make combat and dueling, and general skirmishes take for fluxing ever,
now, why cant we...... roll back to 480, change the minor, but obvious in-balances of a few ships, bring back stack bombing, lower the amount of fighter bases per planet to like 2 and rely more on the laser pd def bases, get rid of these gd shipyards, lose the wormholes, and go back to something that actually had people wating to get into a server, to the point of where u had clients trying to connect to the servers that where full and spamming the join and play function, when was the last time uve seen 100+ people in the mv figbting for the same system? when was te last time u saw n00b with more then 7 in it? and another thing, what the hell where u all thinking when u decided to take the engy away from the midshipman? that was a complete brain fart, how are they supposed to learn how to build in the n00b server if they dunn have access to it, as well what are u trying to proove by making it a 2 inf cap game for them, they are only learning that planets have 2 inf on them and then practicing on that and when they get into the MV they get schooled repeatitively over and over and over and over again, anywho just my 2 cents, j35ter out
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-09-08 08:17
Now Before we all start screaming for 1480 to come back let me say this, Yes 1480 was Great, but it was still on Par with problems, some just not as bad, like Close orbit bombing, ordering the Trannys arround, tranny farming, remote building, etc.
The main reason this game was more fun then compaired to now is that shipyards really took alot of the steam out of the secenario servers,(the main place people usually played). The Updates and the Fixes since then have takken us in the right direction(for the most part). But the factor we all forgot is that alot of people dont have countless hours to go trudge through the mv, or sit arround all night for a Shipyard. But the plan was to allow combat to be quicker(with a small cost of building) and put in Wormholes and Shipyards. Now whatever the Original intent of Shipyards, what we have now needs to be moved out into space.
And I dont know what to tell you about Wormholes, other than they cause alot of problems trying to keep iligal imigrants out of your home systems.
If the MV where made to Scale, or the current mv doubled or tripled in its current size then the Wormholes would be more balanced in my mind. cus atleast they would have to make 2 jumps before they hit your factorys, home planet and Shipyards..
As for the Lag,
Wow, now I may not choose to play DS on one of my better computers but overall in 1483, Ive seen it go from bad to worse. I remember that somewhere arround the launch of 83 there was a reset maybe a week or more later, and then we all had to rebuild the MV. There WAS actually over 100 players on the MV all at once, I had no LAG, But the thing was We were All building planets. And as the planets took shape all you needed for ungodly lag was a handful of combat ships, or 2 guys by an enemy planet with lvl3 bases.
The main Reason i do my fair share of Bitching about the lag and other things arround here is not to be a pain in the Side of DS, but rather to say here is some player feed back, Free for your enjoyment ( but understand that I didnt enjoy the Shaft).
Im pretty sure that Darkspace needs a few good PR people. I remember Gideon used to handle alot of posts.. along with all the other Admin, and few mods.
But nowadays, they either wised up and let other people handle it, or they just dont want to comment.
Well not commenting is a good thing sometimes.. because over my time spent here, I really get the impression that Faustus is a good coder, but he sure the hell aint on the same page as the rest of his staff.
Now one of the great things about DS is that you do get alot of bang for your buck, abeit anything from your butt hitting a planet and going Bang to getting to watch your hours of hard buildng being bombed to dust in a matter of minutes.
Not to bash F anymore than he can take, but its really time to "crap" or get off the pot.
I dont need to tell anyone here that Darkspace doesnt have a large active playerbase. but i think the words on everyones lips are if you build it (it being a working version) they will come.
Now if it apparently takes Alot of money for you (F) to build "it" then please take out a loan and hire some people to work for this game, not to add anything new, but to smooth out the wrinkles.
The problem is that when people start up and play this game. They think its opperated by something more than one man. Congratz on the Illusion. But in all reality your house of cards will be Empty of players sooner than later.
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YIIMM
Grand Admiral
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 851
From: Barcino, Hispania Tarraconensis
| Posted: 2005-09-08 08:58
While I didn't join anywhere near far back enough to see DS before WHs and SYs, I did genuinely enjoy 482 a hell of a lot more than 483. One of the reasons for that, apart from the lag, was the introduction of paradoxical methods to change gameplay strategies, like creating superweapons, and having weapon upgrades, yet at the same time reducing the incentive to kill with reduced pres, and increasing the penalties for deaths and making the prices for upgrading said weapons unbelieveably high. That's just one example.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-09-08 14:41
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On 2005-09-08 08:58, Hopkin Green Frog wrote:
...., was the introduction of paradoxical methods to change gameplay strategies, like creating superweapons, and having weapon upgrades, yet at the same time reducing the incentive to kill with reduced pres, and increasing the penalties for deaths and making the prices for upgrading said weapons unbelieveably high. That's just one example.
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I personally Liked what was introduced in the release of 1483. The main problem that I saw was that Alot of people had a Hard time figuring out how to make money.
To me this added another level of difficulty that was really fun for me. Granted that I was already a GA and at that time had arround 10mil in credits. I also found myself wondering how to make money. But i did find a way. The Main thing people ALWAYS over looked was that there are Systems that have a Need for certain resourses while having an excess supply of another that System B needs, that can supply system A. go to System A, pop out an extractor, fill your Player storage, pop out another extractor at system B and unload/sell and accuire the resources for the other system. By the Time Faustus had Changed the system in 1483.3 I had made about 20 million Credits, ontop of my 10 million. Only to have all my investments and work on Said investments be worth 5 million. ( due to the price Changes )
The nice thing about the high prices was that Not everybody was going arround with Level 10 Sheilds/ armor on Scouts. Not to mention that if you lost that Ship It meant a great deal to you because it took alot of hard work to get it how you wanted it, and alot of money to max it out. Im the type of player that likes to build and have some pride in my ships and ship layouts. I was pretty dissapointed not to mention hurt financially with the changes to the price structure. The funniest thing i heard from people was.. "You were stupid for spending all your money". Well i have to say to that is right back at ya for paying during a Free Trial.
I do agree that the press lost was a bit steep.
I would really like to see some kind of Alternate Univers DarkSpace where things would be more realistic. Even if that server could only hold 100-50 people that would be just fine with me. Hell i probably would even buy a years subby.
-Charz
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2005-09-08 15:11
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On 2005-09-07 21:09, Bandit wrote:
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On 2005-09-07 18:46, Azreal wrote:
There was MASSIVE discusion over what was happening with the new version, from the times and costs of modifications to the superpowers of the ICC frigates and dessies.
They only had our feedback to work with, and there wasn't alot of it.
Az
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A little contradicting aint it.
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Not really, when you consider that those big discusions took place between the same 10 or 15 (MAX) people. Where the hell was everyone that is griping now?
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-09-08 15:35
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Not really, when you consider that those big discusions took place between the same 10 or 15 (MAX) people. Where the hell was everyone that is griping now?
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Not to mention that there is only a Small Handfull of the DS player base doing any of the testing for 1484.
[ This Message was edited by: CharAznable on 2005-09-08 15:36 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-09-08 17:52
It was basicly a hand full of GTN, Nim, Azreal, Trekkie and Char and a few other kluth in beta.
That was it.
Thats all we had to work with to give feedback on.
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Koda
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: August 29, 2002
Posts: 1384
| Posted: 2005-09-08 18:14
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On 2005-09-08 17:52, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
It was basicly a hand full of GTN, Nim, Azreal, Trekkie and Char and a few other kluth in beta.
That was it.
Thats all we had to work with to give feedback on.
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Some of the things we mentiond, Like Needing to go in and out of a ShipYard after modding to make sure your Stuff is actually "on" still never got takken care of.
I REALLY hope on this next release that More People TEST the beta and More Bugs get delt with instead pushing it out no matter what.
You know im sure that there would be more of an Incentive to test beta's if instead of promising them badges ( then telling them that their not getting them after all) ... How about you add a Beta Tester Stat to a players Profile? Origial Beta badge, bronze, silver, gold, Platinum, super cool person, supertester, son of Teal, Son of faustus, Cloned mix of a Teal Faustus genentic combination. then there is the ShiggernaFFy.
-Charz
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Coeus {NCX-Charger}
Admiral, I can't read,
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 3635
From: South Philly
| Posted: 2005-09-09 05:50
I still say they shoulda shut down the MV while the last stress test was going on...
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Darkspace: Twilight
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-09-09 11:39
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On 2005-09-09 05:50, Coeus wrote:
I still say they shoulda shut down the MV while the last stress test was going on...
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They can't do that. The whole reason you pay is for you to be able to have unlocked profiles and to play on their unlocked server.
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|2eason
Grand Admiral
Agents
Joined: September 30, 2001
Posts: 1252
From: Wisconsin, US
| Posted: 2005-09-09 13:50
The views and opinions expressed in this post and thread are that of my own and do not represent that of any other person, group or entity.
Quote:
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On 2005-09-08 08:17, CharAznable wrote:
As for the Lag,
Wow, now I may not choose to play DS on one of my better computers but overall in 1483, Ive seen it go from bad to worse. I remember that somewhere arround the launch of 83 there was a reset maybe a week or more later, and then we all had to rebuild the MV. There WAS actually over 100 players on the MV all at once, I had no LAG, But the thing was We were All building planets. And as the planets took shape all you needed for ungodly lag was a handful of combat ships, or 2 guys by an enemy planet with lvl3 bases.
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Hmm, something Faustus has known about for over 3 years now. After like 1.3something the game started lagging horribly. While testing, only after combat was brought into the equation did it start to lag up the butt. It seems it has only worsened as time has gone by rather then be stomped out.
That tells me too much !*$&&~@? is being transfered/handled by something and its creating a bottleneck somewhere. (kinda like throwing 100 2x4s through a pinhole at the same time, times x (x=number of players)
As for overall lag in DS, the Universe Server (version 1.481) was supposed to fix the lag issues by spreading out the processing load over more then one server within a certain distance range. (Fixing a gas shortage while there was plenty of oil by adding more oil, rather then refinerys to turn the surplus of oil into gas)
Now ok, it all sounds well and good and like a workable solution, untill actually put to practical use. Switching from zone to zone is buggy as hell; "nouns" or different items in the area of a zone boarder become all out of synch. So, you can't drop a zone boarder right in the middle of the players, time to re-roll and try again.
In essence, this "fix" hasn't really resolved the main problem, one that will forever haunt online games as a whole. If you get too many people in one central area the pipeline needed (bandwidth) between the server/clients raises exponentially. Same situation happens in World of Warcraft, on servers well more powerful then what Darkspace uses. Same problem persists to a degree, too much crap to transfer at once. Not to mention the potential graphic lag taking place due to the shear number of things changing from second to second that need to be rendered, loaded, transfered, etc etc.
The point is this: The time and energy being spent/able to be spent on Darkspace is being wasted on the wrong things. Priorities keep being put onto a master list without completely considering the impacts they have not only on the list, but on the game itself. In addition to this, other ideas and random thoughts get introduced from left field without even being on the list. (Wormholes were on the list, but weren't expected until after some sort of balance patch, shipyards came from left field, way in left field from their original conception)
At this point and time, the attitude seems to be "We will solve all our problems with the next patch, hold on til then" when with each new patch more and more problems arise without any insight to their creation, leading to lower and lower morale. (Each patch is another let-down = more people leave)
Who, what, where, why, when and how did all this happen, is what I am sure some of you are asking... (The rest have probably skipped right past this novel by this point, :P)
Who:Faustus and anyone else willing to blindly/ignorantly follow along behind him to the bitter end.
What:The attitude of superiority and complete control of Darkspace along with the attitude that everything will be solved with "the next patch" coming in "two weeks".
Where:Within the Development Team, Administrators and the Community, mainly with a certain few who created distrust within and sucessfully gained Faustus's direct attention away from team efforts. Not to mention with Faustus himself.
Why:Power and the idea that things will all be better because Darkspace can't die, a grasping lunge towards hope that something positive will come from a new patch. Salvation in a hopeless situation.
When:Since the beginning of this community and the introduction of favoritism through the playerbase/staff. Continues through today.
How:The only person that has complete control over anything within Darkspace is Faustus, its obvious he runs this place how he wants, that's how.
What does all this mean and how can we fix it/Darkspace? (If someone can figure that out, please let me know, dont forget the Holy Grail)
Sometimes you can care too much. It happened to me and I am sure it has happend to many others before/after me. Faustus has complete control over what happens, everything and anything goes through him. This is good and bad. He cares too much about this game to give up any amount of control to those who can perceive a more accurate path for Darkspace and its current situation. Either that, or he has put himself in this situation.
Firstly, he has to be completely burned out and beyond the point of taking just a little bit of time away. Hell, I am sure he has taken plenty of time away in order to support his family, since I doubt this place can support him these days. He really needs to gain perspective on what has really happened, what is happening, how things should be done rather then aimlessly sailing towards his illusion of "Darkspace 2". (Reality: There is no Darkspace 2 if Darkspace keeps sinking into the blackhole it created for itself)
Secondly, its his way or the highway, if it sounds good to him, whether it is or not, he will put it into the game. Example: Cross-faction tech-swapping. Very bad to the essence of the game, but viewed as "something the players want" from a select few from 2-3 years ago. (Time for a reality check? Oh wait, I mentioned that already...wtg Captain Obvious...)
Thirdly, His staff became completely demoralized because of the conditions they were put through. A lot of awesome people have been lost to this crap. No communication, Those above the staff were having their doubts, Too much responsibility was being left to too few which thusly burned them out. The staff has been repeatedly put in the line of fire between:
Faustus, The Admins, The Development Team...
...and that of the Community, who is armed with AKs, Swords, Pitchforks, and Shovels (for you Coleen, ;) ) while the staff was armed with only their little green suit. What do you think was supposed to happen? (Stop, or I will bleed on you!!! /mute /mute /mute)
Nothing will change if the one/ones able to change it dont. Pure and simple. So far, they haven't and have only been able to gain more control/power over the community/game decisions.
And more people continue to leave...
Anyone else seeing the obvious pattern yet?
Thanks for your time.
- |2eason the retired -
Former Darkspace Developer and Former Palestar Staffmember
PS: This place is still here??? :P
<3
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-09-09 14:24
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On 2005-09-09 13:50, |2eason wrote:
long ass post...
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Me and Drafell put a proposal for 1.484 a few months back to Faustus, and he seemed to like it. Hopefully, it will return darkspace to a medium of 1.480 and 1.483. A lot of people like the new weapons, ships, etc, but a lot of people miss the old combat, and the ease of the game.
It doesnt take a whole lot to bring back the game, it just takes time. Something that Faustus doesnt have a lot of (he cant give all his time to the game, like you say). Hopefully, things will start to pick up with the new server, and 1.484. Tael is starting to work on 1.483 bugs, so hopefully we'll get a .6 patch that will fix the small bugs that are making this game so hellish right now.
Its always been that way for darkspace. Small things ruin it on a large scale. Remember CL2k's, annoyed the hell out of anyone who wasnt kluth. Remember when servers wouldnt transfer you, you had to log out?
I admit, 1.480 was the peek of DS, because it had few bugs. Not enough to warrent anyone leaving en-mass.
1.483 is basicly a suped up 1.483, with bugs. Bugs that !~?#&#$?**&s use, and abuse, to bring the game down. Some bugs cant be helped, like lag...But like I say. It doesnt take a whole lot to bring it round. New server soon, should help sort out the lag, with the decreased latency in data transfer (no multiple desktops), and Tael now working on bugs (which are just mainly small changes in code).
Hopefully 1.483 will come to the point were its playable, and enjoyable, and then Faustus and Tael can both work on 1.484.
Darkspace is far from screwed, you know aswell as I do, this place refuses to die.
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|2eason
Grand Admiral
Agents
Joined: September 30, 2001
Posts: 1252
From: Wisconsin, US
| Posted: 2005-09-09 14:34
@BackSlash *Jack*:
You miss the point completely
Faustus will not change, Period.
He has had the past 5 years to attempt to, but every time has failed to do so. Why is this time any different? It's not. re-roll
Aside from that, Your post wreaks of that which I speak of.
The peak of DS was December 16th, 2001, the last day before DS was going to go pay to play.
'nuff said
- |2eason the retired -
Former Darkspace Developer and Former Palestar Staffmember
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