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heres my two cents worth |
Obiwan Kenobi
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 14, 2005
Posts: 99
From: Mooresboro , North Carolina United States
|  Posted: 2005-10-16 01:46
im gonna do this only to relieve the stress that im feeling right now so here goes.
i was unsubbed about a month ago and at that time i was enjoying playing even while unsubbed. i left for the last three weeks on out of town work and when i come back i find that the game no longer has that interest peaking quality that it did.
i dunno if its one thing in particular or a multitude of things but i have been having a conflict of interest in whether me resubbing like i did was worth it.
i dont like ranting but im having a problem understanding the idea of kluth being able to launch bombs and then cloak and take out a planet without ever being detected or anything. kinda seems like this could be some form of exploit but its not my place to say if it is or not, leave that to the admins.
the bombing in general is still a major issue i am faced with too. i know, i know, we've all heard about the "no one ship should be able to bomb a planet dead in one run" speech but it still ticks me off to see that nothing so far that i have seen in beta is being done to address this problem. maybe there is something that i have missed and all that and if so then well done, but the fact of the matter is that it should never have been allowed to become a problem to begin with. again i shut up knowing that i have no control over this.
i dunno it just seems to me like ever since this patch was introduced that the game has gone more downhill than ever before. theres those that say that if you didnt help in beta then you have no right to argue, i agree but i did my part in beta and so did many others and still the same result. again out of my hands.
well i feel much better to have gotten that stuff out in the open. fire away with whatever comments you want. when beta comes around to being worked on more then ill be in there i guess, if not then when this sub runs out, ill figure out if its still in my best interests to resub or to part and say adeu.
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Tellaris
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 830
From: Land of Chocolate
| Posted: 2005-10-16 02:23
Welcome to my world! I'm still waiting for this game to regain its old allure to me. Hence, I've been inactive for a year. Luckily, GTN is a very understanding clan!
I'm just waiting for my love of this game to be rekindled... Hoping it will be.
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Fatal Command (CO)
Marshal
Fatal Squadron
Joined: November 27, 2002
Posts: 1158
From: over here in New York noticing some ppl are like canoes.....they need to be paddled.
| Posted: 2005-10-16 08:36
same here
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*Peanut*
Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2004
Posts: 204
| Posted: 2005-10-16 09:17
Yeah :/ i miss the old version
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-10-16 09:32
Obiwan:
I understand the frustration you are feeling. There are, in fact, many flaws with the game as we speak.
But, the current combination of K'luth cloak and ECM bombing is not high on the list of things to fix. When some ships in combat take damage only on one arc, regardless the side from which it is taking fire, there are definitely some urgent and critical problems which need fixing.
Secondly, even though the K'luth have stealth bombing much easier than human factions, the fact is that what you saw last night is completely reproduceable by human factions. The stealth bombing problem is most accentuated with K'luth, yes. But it is game-wide.
Thirdly, your comments that you yelled at the K'luth bombing fleet yesterday were very true. If this continues, there will be few players left in the game. This bombing system is not sustainable. At all.
Your misconception, though, was that the problem lay with K'luth players. This is not true. The people who have decided to stay in the game, are merely playing the game AS BEST THEY CAN in this current iteration. And if it so happens that the current iteration is Bombspace, then so be it. As you correctly identified, players have the choice to walk away. As you did, by logging off.
Fourthly, and I suggest this mildly, but I suspect you may have been so angry at the situation in general, that you may have not heeded certain tactical considerations:
1. You were trying to defend a system with a Command Dread. This is flawed in several ways. First of all, a Command Dread is a bombing ship in itself. Secondly, a Command Dread lacks the ability to jump quickly and repeatedly, as you are using an HMA or WH device, as opposed to a normal jump drive.
2. Better would be an interdictor with beacons.
3. No matter what, when K'luth are bombing, you will still see ECM rings.
4. Granted, you cannot defend all the planets, but as each planet gets wiped, by process of elimination, you can begin to deduce where the next attack will come.
--
For he who is willing to adapt, there is always a way.
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Nim *
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: September 05, 2004
Posts: 295
| Posted: 2005-10-16 11:34
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On 2005-10-16 09:32, Arcanum {C?} wrote:
1. You were trying to defend a system with a Command Dread. This is flawed in several ways. First of all, a Command Dread is a bombing ship in itself. Secondly, a Command Dread lacks the ability to jump quickly and repeatedly, as you are using an HMA or WH device, as opposed to a normal jump drive.
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HMA on a CD has faster recharge time than normal tachyon drive on a dred (BD for example)
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2. Better would be an interdictor with beacons.
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speaking from experience, dictor is useless against kluth unless u were lucky enough to becon the enemy ship as soon as u jump in (p jumping using nav, but this only works sometimes due to the fact nav is completely unreliable and is lagy). Thats why its very very very frustrating for us to just sit by and watch all the mirv clavs nuke in complete saftey knowing we (human factions) cant dictor kill them.
As soon as a dictor jumps in and the enemy cloaks without getting beconed they get away free..considering how quick (few sec) it takes to cloak and the fact kluth has pulse for pd..its near impossible to becon a clav before it cloaks again unless you jump right on top of it
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3. No matter what, when K'luth are bombing, you will still see ECM rings.
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Once a kluth cloaks, the ecm rings gets hidden..you (the pilot of the kluth ship) will see it but us (the enemy) wont. Which again is very unfair as you can cloak and ecm the bombs all the way to the planet in complete saftey
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4. Granted, you cannot defend all the planets, but as each planet gets wiped, by process of elimination, you can begin to deduce where the next attack will come.
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Not when our planets get nuked randomly in random systems. i.e nuke a planet in sol then move to lalande
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-10-16 11:45
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Your misconception, though, was that the problem lay with K'luth players. This is not true. The people who have decided to stay in the game, are merely playing the game AS BEST THEY CAN in this current iteration. And if it so happens that the current iteration is Bombspace, then so be it. As you correctly identified, players have the choice to walk away. As you did, by logging off.
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But I do know this - if you state one more time Arc that Kluth fail horribly at combat im going to beat you with a spoon. Admittingly, they could do with a hell of a workup on their beam and cloaking power, but as it stands the constant iriteration that Kluth combat sucks in all manners is by and large getting on my last nerve - It ISNT THAT BAD. It could be better, but its not as horrid as you state.
Please for the last time - we know just how much Kluth needs help with certain aspects, but to me, im tired of the arguement that they are completely worthless, for my own experience negated that.
=Ent
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Where did I make any comments about K'luth combat? I was making the point that people should not complain about the bombing as if it were one faction's evil, while also not having exhausted all possibilities in defending the planets.
We all know the problems with combat, but that's not on topic. This was about stealth bombing.
@Nim - Your comments about dictors not being the choice defense against bombing...are completely counter to what you yourself practice in reality. When it comes time to defend against bombing, I see you in a beacon dictor ALL the time. And this mumbojumbo about not being able to point jump properly is ridiculous. You had no difficulty doing it repeatedly to our K'luth fleet a week or two ago.
[ This Message was edited by: Arcanum {C?} on 2005-10-16 11:48 ]
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Nim *
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: September 05, 2004
Posts: 295
| Posted: 2005-10-16 11:49
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Where did I make any comments about K'luth combat? I was making the point that people should not complain about the bombing as if it were one faction's evil, while also not having exhausted all possibilities in defending the planets.
We all know the problems with combat, but that's not on topic. This was about stealth bombing.
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Maybe you should come and play as ugto and see how bad the problem really is..and while you are at it try dictoring a kluth mirv bomber
Two weeks ago almost every kluth mirved..the only player I've seen use neutron was Shine. Everyone else used mirv and bombed randomly purely to get prestige.
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Nim *
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: September 05, 2004
Posts: 295
| Posted: 2005-10-16 11:57
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@Nim - Your comments about dictors not being the choice defense against bombing...are completely counter to what you yourself practice in reality. When it comes time to defend against bombing, I see you in a beacon dictor ALL the time. And this mumbojumbo about not being able to point jump properly is ridiculous. You had no difficulty doing it repeatedly to our K'luth fleet a week or two ago.
[ This Message was edited by: Arcanum {C?} on 2005-10-16 11:48 ]
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I never said its not the choice against bombers..I'm just pointing out dictors are useless against kluth if you havent beconed it as soon as you jump in.
Dictor is def the best option as you dont want the enemy jumping if he/she gets beconed....
I've wasted a lot more time TRYING to becon & dictor than actually successfuly beconing & killing. Just because I killed few dont mean it works (just lucky on my part that i managed to becon)
[ This Message was edited by: Nim {C?} on 2005-10-16 12:00 ]
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-10-16 12:01
Nim, you really must look harder and refresh your memory. They day you beaconed and dictored me (while I was cloaked near a planet, I should add, so how did you know I was there, save for the ECCM rings that you say don't appear while cloaked?), I had captured multiple UGTO planets with NEUTRON bombs.
In fact, before UGTO started bombing K'luth repeatedly in the past two weeks, many K'luth (not all) were using Neutrons.
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The Praetorian Wolves.
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Nim *
Chief Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: September 05, 2004
Posts: 295
| Posted: 2005-10-16 12:18
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On 2005-10-16 12:01, Arcanum {C?} wrote:
Nim, you really must look harder and refresh your memory. They day you beaconed and dictored me (while I was cloaked near a planet, I should add, so how did you know I was there, save for the ECCM rings that you say don't appear while cloaked?), I had captured multiple UGTO planets with NEUTRON bombs.
In fact, before UGTO started bombing K'luth repeatedly in the past two weeks, many K'luth (not all) were using Neutrons.
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I prob beconed you cause of the nav bug which sometimes happens (i've never beconed anyone using the ecm rings when they r cloaked simply because the rings get hidden as well)
Two weeks ago kluth wernt using neutrons, other than shine, every other kluth i saw in bomber was mirving..the whole mass mirving thing was started by kluth in the first place, you even mirv your own systems to cap it back (what does that say about your faction?) Heck, in procyon a while back i captured a planet with 1 shield and a gang comes up and wipes it clean (it had a shield ffs) + I caped the whole system with neutrons and what did kluth do? Thats right, they mirved it to cap it back-amongst the mirvers were tops and mad bum and the one who nuked the 1 shielded planet was azreal..
We even neutron caped from cinci upto lacaille once, but all the systems got mirved shortly after
This just proves most kluth are bunch of pres whores who uses the 'ugto mirved us first' excuse to get easy prestige
UGTO neutron Kluth planet
K'Luth Mirvs that planet
K'luth doesnt bother caping
Another K'luth logs on later and thinks ugto mirved it
That k'luth gets a mirv bomber and go off on random nuking
UGTO gets pissed
UGTO starts mirving
K'luth dictor kills that UGTO (since unlike kluth we CAN be dictored and killed)
More k'luth starts mirving using the revenge excuse
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Arcanum {C?}
Cadet
Joined: June 25, 2005
Posts: 222
| Posted: 2005-10-16 12:43
Well, that's certainly a creative account of events. Granted, there are some factual aspects about this, but all in all, I enjoyed reading your version of events.
All of which goes to show that humans (myself included) are incapable of seeing reality without biased perception.
Darkspace would be a sociologist's heaven.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2005-10-16 12:51
It'd also be a forensic's nightmare; these "debates" go nowhere and seem to spawn out of nothing - and its simply rehashing the same arguments we've seen since about two days into this patch.
Good work staying on topic, team!
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AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
| Posted: 2005-10-16 21:54
Well, to defend my "pres whoring" self; not every use of MIRVs is because of the need for prestige. To recapture Barnards: the first time we capped it, the lag and fighter swarms were so horrible, that a few of the planets needed to simply "disappear" so we could manage to uncloak without dying and drop inf. I MIRVed about 3 of the planets, and neutroned the rest. This time, when we captured Barnards, I started by nuking most of it with a Colony, so I wouldnt lag into the planet. I was by myself, and was really only thinking of killing the mod planet, but that worked so well, I figured I'd work on some new tactics.
Different times call for different tactics. MIRVs, Colonies/bomber fighters/neutrons---they're all used at different times. To say one faction uses one exclusively is, frankly, ignorant. I havent seen Sirius with fully built planets in a long while, and I havent seen Sol with fully built planets in a long while. But when we're capturing the MV, we don't need every single planet intact. Most will be recapped the next day anyways.
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shine
Cadet
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 153
| Posted: 2005-10-17 12:41
I finally am up a little bit of prestige from when I started a few weeks ago. I die a lot and icc/ugto love to beacon and jump me, but I cannot blame them for that...just some payback for keeping them busy in Sol =)
"you even mirv your own systems to cap it back"
These systems had kluth defense on it, it it's a lot easier to mirv them and rebuild then to lose 20 ships trying to neutron them. The systems did get built back up within a day.
As for the randomly attacking systems, that's called slpit up the huge group of E so we have a fighting chance against them=)
I prefer to neutron and to fight. But atm, I lose to much prestige fighting and I really want to fly a brood so I can build what I mirv, and with only gaining a few hundered prestige in 3 weeks, it's gonna take a long time to reach FA.
Anyways, bombing atm seems the only way to gain prestige with this current version so why not do so? I haven't gained 3million prestige in the past 3 weeks...only a few hundred...Bombing is part of the game, no reason to get mad at it, use it to your advantage.
Just my 2 cents
edit: Ask any Kluth how much prestige they've gained the past few weeks, and almost all will say they have lost a lot more than gained....I even seen Bito lose like 3 stations in 1 or 2 nights(plus a boat load of dreads) due to lag burps and E...so it's not like anyone is making 3 million prestige in 1 night...100 maybe 200 if lucky.
[ This Message was edited by: shine on 2005-10-17 17:43 ]
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