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Linux vs XP? |
Philky!
Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 90
|  Posted: 2005-12-23 22:11
I was just trying to show that Windows XP can handle a bunch of windows and be easy to use. I like the Windows interface better than the ones on Linux.
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kenetiks
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 21, 2001
Posts: 1130
From: Bandcamp
| Posted: 2005-12-23 23:00
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On 2005-12-23 22:11, Antdizzle wrote:
I was just trying to show that Windows XP can handle a bunch of windows and be easy to use. I like the Windows interface better than the ones on Linux.
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Well the point again was not to show how many windows I could open. It isn't the screenshot, it isn't how many windows are open. It's what they're showing.
Take this for example http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d150/kenetiks/snapshot6.jpg
It's not the point of how many windows are open, it's showing...
One the interface, which is not as easy to use as win2k or anything below. But it consistant in usability to xp. The control panels are under the correct context menu's and the configurability of linux has always been better than win, however it's always been hard to do that because the configuration for everything is so spread out and hard to find. KDE brings it all under one roof so to speak. The controls panels put the entire OS configuration and desktop under the control of the user. You can configure the OS to even how the windows behave.
Second, the screenshot I gave the link to above shows the answer to a question someone had about personal IM services. If you'll look at the top right you'll see kopete with account setups for all the major IM services. It's a linux based client for all or most all of the major IM networks.
Likewise top left you'll see a media player(you can't see the video of course) thats playing a Windows Media 9(.wmv) file. Below that you'll find konquerer which is like IE in it's behavior and also integrates as a file system browser just like IE(cut, paste, move, delete, copy files). In front of that you'll see the classic shell. Near the bottom right you can see xmms(much like a clone of winamp). Now on the taskbar to the bottum right you'll see the sound mixer, network icon, clock, etc.
All of this has done wonders in making linux a serious contender to XP. It's still a little troublesome in some places, I've notice a few bugs already. But all in all, it's made a tremendous leap in just the past couple of years.
I'm seriously impressed with what the linux community has done in such a short time. It's astounding what they've already accomplished.
Most linux distros come with two options, workstation or server. Usually choosing workstation presents you with a a good desktop system(or that was my experience awhile back) but it left you without alot of little things that windows did so well and you still got alot of things you didn't need and things you did need weren't there and that meant alot of configuring searching compiling and installing just to get it halfway decent. This distro just knocked me back as it's been seriously streamlined to be *just* a FAST desktop system. And it succeeded with full marks.
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shadey
Cadet
Joined: November 13, 2004
Posts: 40
| Posted: 2005-12-24 01:32
honestly linux has come along away in just the last year. Last year i built my current pc and felt that the price of windows xp was to high for what is provided, so i looked into linux. i downloaded and installed fedora core 3, then suse 9.2 . i found suse much more useable than fedora. then suse 10 came out and i was blown away. it is just as easy to use as windows and much more secure. i have yet to have a run in with a linux virus, but it seemed like i spent a good part of my windows time tracking down some piece of malware that snuck past my virus/spyware scanner because it was a week out of date. oh and we have Tux, hes much cuter than Bill gates. 
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DOM700 [-IMO-]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 3175
From: Eckental, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2005-12-24 04:24
I am a SuSE Linux user myself, who doesnt want a fast OS which can be installed with a few clicks and still giving nearly the normal linux performance (of course you cant reach what some people get when they tweak all their configs in the editor)
Except for graphics (someone give Linux something similiar to directx?), everything works faster than under XP, and linux stays fast (unlike windows OS)
Now dont say something about why windows becomes slower and how to counter that....it gets slower and linux doesnt, SuSE linux configuration are easier than windows configs and I am not using the most common spyware
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kenetiks
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 21, 2001
Posts: 1130
From: Bandcamp
| Posted: 2005-12-24 07:02
Like I said, I agree, linux has come a long long way in a short time. I used linux up untill a couple of years ago and haven't used it again untill here recently.
I didn't want a "few click install" myself either. I thik the installer for this distro needs a little work, as it could give you a few more options that are missing from the installation.
The end package though is astonishing. It is so much more than the linux I knew now. And this distro is pretty fast. I've had no trouble with it at all. Nothing that a few configuration options wouldn't fix.
As for the level of usability, I'd say it doesn't need to progress any further. They don't linux to become the next desktop, if it does you'll start to see more linux works and rootkits. It needs to be that only a handfull of avid users use linux and bsd, otherwise they'll just be another Bill Gates.
What they need to do now is simply work on ironing out all the bugs and get it completely stable. It's pretty rock solid now as far as the OS goes but x has always been finicky.
And yes, tux is better looking than Bill Gates or his Butterfly.
I know I've read on the forums here about someone trying to get GCQL to run on wine, I just don't remember if they succeeded or not. Have either of you tried it?
I can get it to run, and I've turned the autoupdate on and off and here's what I get.
The progress meter pops up trying to connect to the lobby. And wine gives me this...
err:ntdll:RtlpWaitForCriticalSection section 0x1180f0 "?" wait timed out in thread 000b, blocked by 000a, retrying (60 sec)
I can check and see if it is indeed communicating with the server...
kenetiks@localhost ~ $ netstat | grep luy
tcp 0 0 192.168.1.50:32812 luyten.palestar.co:9000 ESTABLISHED
kenetiks@localhost ~ $
It is communicating with the server, it just hangs after it gets the reply is what I think is happening.
Maybe Faustus can comment? It would be exciing to get the lobby up under linux.
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shadey
Cadet
Joined: November 13, 2004
Posts: 40
| Posted: 2005-12-24 13:57
i personally never got the lobby to work properly with wine, but i only tried it for about 15 minutes then had other things to do, i know have a dual boot set up so maybe i will install it on my xp partitiion and copy all the dlls to linux and then wine it. Ill try to let you know my results.
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kenetiks
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 21, 2001
Posts: 1130
From: Bandcamp
| Posted: 2005-12-24 14:55
Thanks, I'd like to see if you can get it up and running.
Actually I'm running on an old binary of wine(20040914) and I found out after alot of digging that the issue is probably going to be with wine. Seems alot of people where getting that error on the old wine binaries.
The issue seems to be resolved in the updated versions.
And therein lies the problem, the new binary rpms have package dependencies that I cannot satify. And after alot of digging for the dependencies online I came up with nothing.
However I talked with a package manager for this distro on IRC and learned they are about to release the upgrade for the whole OS which includes upgrades for wine and all it's needs on 1.1.06. The new upgrade for wine is actually available now and he said they work great on the new system but wont work untill I can upgrade the whole thing.
If you get it up and running thats great, I'd like to know the results but I may just sit tight for a few days and wait on the upgrade.
Edit: Thought I'd throw in a screenshot so you could see what it's doing.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d150/kenetiks/snapshot7.jpg
[ This Message was edited by: kenetiks on 2005-12-24 15:00 ]
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Peter Wiggin
Midshipman
Joined: November 10, 2005
Posts: 636
| Posted: 2005-12-24 19:28
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On 2005-12-23 20:47, lightning[Voyager][ A ] wrote:
I use both Windows and MAc and i just love Mac. YEs, Maybe for some it sucks... But for me that makes movies, thats the best for movie editing...
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Seriously.. Come on.. MAC?!?!?! At least you can get Linux to WORK! sheesh.. if I had a dime for every time that a Mac has nearly exploded.. I would be... well I would have about a dollar, but still.. I despise mac... more than despise.. loathe.......
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kenetiks
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 21, 2001
Posts: 1130
From: Bandcamp
| Posted: 2005-12-24 21:14
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On 2005-12-24 19:28, DivineWind-((Tarn's-Son))- wrote:
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On 2005-12-23 20:47, lightning[Voyager][ A ] wrote:
I use both Windows and MAc and i just love Mac. YEs, Maybe for some it sucks... But for me that makes movies, thats the best for movie editing...
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Seriously.. Come on.. MAC?!?!?! At least you can get Linux to WORK! sheesh.. if I had a dime for every time that a Mac has nearly exploded.. I would be... well I would have about a dollar, but still.. I despise mac... more than despise.. loathe.......
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Macs in my experiance with them have always been rock solid multimedia platforms. And they outperform x86 platforms of comparable speed.
Glad they finally standardized those mouses though, trying to right click was hell for awhile.
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Nimitz
Fleet Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: April 19, 2005
Posts: 141
From: Melbourne, Australia
| Posted: 2005-12-25 00:30
I've also used Linux..up until last year when I finished uni. I haven't touched it since as I've moved on to Solaris now as I use it at work...but yeah, I agree that Linux has come a long way the last few years.
Although Linux is almost as easy to set up as windows, it's the lack of device drivers which is one of its main disadvantages. If your hardware isn't Linux supported and there are no drivers out there for it, you're essentially screwed for those devices. The 2.6 Kernel and Installer have made great headway towards providing drivers for most of the hardware out there, which is Ok for Desktops but Laptops still suffer in some areas.
Another thing about Linux is most of its power still comes from the Command Line. You can only do so much using Point and Click and the average user will drive themselves mad trying to do what would be an easy task on Windows. Granted a user with a gram of intelligence will be able to figure it out at the end, but sometimes somethings can be very frustrating to work out.
You mention that Linux runs faster on your PC than Windows. It's because of the difference in scheduling algorithms used in the two OSes, plus the different memory management techniques. Windows never had a good memory management suite, although it has improved a long way since Win95 (and fell again with WinME). Linux is great for running on older hardware, however the latest releases of the commonly-used ones are starting to make it a bit harder due to their size and higher requirements for the "prettying" features.
Although you might think Linux is safer...it is not. Linux, compared to Unix, never had built-in security features until later on and only now are the security features starting to catch up. Only reason why you're not being infected by loads of viruses is because no one wastes time writing it for Linux...I mean, who would since it's an Open Source OS and anyone doing it will feel the wraith of the global community (and they probably are using it themselves). There's nothing to hate about Linux...it's all GOOD!
Those that say "I hate you because you use Linux", well I just use the best tool for the job. If I feel lazy, then I use Windows. If I need to do programming, linux is a great due to all the compilers available for it as well as the inbuilt vi/vim editor (yeah, go Vim! =:) )
I think I've said enough now...Go out and Enjoy Christmas instead of reading this long post 
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DOM700 [-IMO-]
Fleet Admiral
Joined: July 26, 2001
Posts: 3175
From: Eckental, Germany, Sol-System
| Posted: 2005-12-25 02:32
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On 2005-12-25 00:30, Nimitz wrote:
Although Linux is almost as easy to set up as windows, it's the lack of device drivers which is one of its main disadvantages. If your hardware isn't Linux supported and there are no drivers out there for it, you're essentially screwed for those devices. |
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I have an unsupported RAID controller, which runs in my linux server, I had to rewrite the kernel to make it work (no...not using the programm with the interface (dont know the name atm), but editing kernel source with VI...), no fun, but it works great
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kenetiks
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 21, 2001
Posts: 1130
From: Bandcamp
| Posted: 2005-12-25 17:04
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Another thing about Linux is most of its power still comes from the Command Line. You can only do so much using Point and Click and the average user will drive themselves mad trying to do what would be an easy task on Windows. Granted a user with a gram of intelligence will be able to figure it out at the end, but sometimes somethings can be very frustrating to work out.
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The shell is still the raw power of linux based systems however that has evidently changed.
Let's take this distro I'm running as an example. It's running KDE 3.3, kpackage and Synaptic. From inside the KDE desktop system I can configure everything. Everything about how the system runs or performs can be changed from the desktop now with the control panels. Just like you can with windows. This alone is one of the best features in linux to date. You can adjust everything that windows can and many times more and it's as easy as any windows version.
Running Synaptic, I can point it to the repository for my distro(online or from CD) and upgrade packages, remove things I don't need and even install new software thats been released. I can't even begin to describe how easy it is to use. Kudos to the linux community for this one.
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You mention that Linux runs faster on your PC than Windows. It's because of the difference in scheduling algorithms used in the two OSes, plus the different memory management techniques. Windows never had a good memory management suite, although it has improved a long way since Win95 (and fell again with WinME). Linux is great for running on older hardware, however the latest releases of the commonly-used ones are starting to make it a bit harder due to their size and higher requirements for the "prettying" features.
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You're right there, the resource management of linux is better than windows. And as a sort of benchmark for myself, I've installed a crapload of "eye candy" programs onto my old machine and they run without lagging the system hardly any. And I can still open resource intensive applications with little noticable difference in performance. And I'm running at 1280x1024 on a 16mb 3dfx voodoo card lol. Not to mention I'm watching videos online, chatting, IM'ing, running OpenOffice, playing mp3's, image editing, burning cd's etc etc etc. There is almost nothing now that linux can't do. There are some things I'm sure, but all in all, linux to me just well passed anything that windows ever will accomplish.
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Although you might think Linux is safer...it is not. Linux, compared to Unix, never had built-in security features until later on and only now are the security features starting to catch up. Only reason why you're not being infected by loads of viruses is because no one wastes time writing it for Linux...I mean, who would since it's an Open Source OS and anyone doing it will feel the wraith of the global community (and they probably are using it themselves). There's nothing to hate about Linux...it's all GOOD!
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And that right there is one of my main fears. The only reason that there isn't a prevailance of linux based worms is due to MS having 90% of the desktop market. Thats whats out there so like most games and commercial software thats written for the most popular desktop, so then are virii and worms.
If in the next month everyone went to linux guess what? So will all the virii writers. Linux is only safe because it's mystified so to speak. Not many people can use it, less can use it well enough to know its vulnerabilities.
And that to me is where I think it should stay. Linux should stay right where it is now. I don't want to see it get good enough to be over commercialized. Then there will be deadlines for software development which means cutting corners and more security issues.
In other words linux just put the pwnt on win permanent style, ninja like even..
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2005-12-25 18:05
GCQL is calling a Windows function. Hence, no worky under Linux.
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kenetiks
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: November 21, 2001
Posts: 1130
From: Bandcamp
| Posted: 2005-12-25 21:57
Wine is a windows emulater which mimics windows along with all the "windows functions", well mostly anyway.
The problem that upon further investigating is a bug in the old wine build. This is actually fixed in the new version, or I could download the source and compile it myself along with the library dependencies. Which is time consuming and tedious to say the least.
But the new packages with the updates for this distrobution will be available on the 1st so I'm content to wait till then to see if the new wine packages really do solve this problem.
The problem is in a call to a dll file which according to users is supposed to be fixed in the new version.
So I'll sit tight for the moment.
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Nimitz
Fleet Admiral
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: April 19, 2005
Posts: 141
From: Melbourne, Australia
| Posted: 2005-12-26 03:19
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I have an unsupported RAID controller, which runs in my linux server, I had to rewrite the kernel to make it work (no...not using the programm with the interface (dont know the name atm), but editing kernel source with VI...), no fun, but it works great
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Yeah, you can do that, but now many people out there do you think has programming experience and can edit the kernel code?
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\"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.\" -- Rich Cook
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