| Author |
Elf beam + Luth dictor |
Cataclysm
Cadet
Joined: November 26, 2005
Posts: 45
|  Posted: 2006-02-18 14:00
If ELF is made changeable with assault ruptor again I would like to make a suggestion.
At the moment ELF beam works within 150gu on my mandible and discharges the enemies weapons. I have heard a lot of complaining about the fact that k'luth have a dictor so I was thinking of a way of fairly removing it.
If the luth dictor was removed and the ELF beam was made so that it discharged the enemies jump drive and perhaps extend the range to 200 gu's I think that would be a nice tradeoff.
Any thoughts? Might be silly but heh 
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2006-02-18 14:37
kluth dictors dont have salt ruptors, and if elf unloaded JDs, that means that ANY ship that can mount elfs can be used as a dictor. i dont think so
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Cataclysm
Cadet
Joined: November 26, 2005
Posts: 45
| Posted: 2006-02-18 14:42
Only k'luth dreads, drainer and paracite carry the ELF beam and would have to be close to use it. People have been asking for the luth dictor to be removed and this could be an alternative way for luth to keep their pray within range.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-18 17:57
K'luth should never of been given the dictor, it doesn't really fit in with their play style. Also, the ELF is powerfull enough as it is already.
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_x$witchBladex_ [1.480 Fanboy]
Grand Admiral
Joined: February 26, 2003
Posts: 849
From: Upstate New York
| Posted: 2006-02-19 00:11
Backy, please stop trying to make the K'luth suck. You want us to not be able to hold our enemies and allow them to jump out whenver they are hurt?
With no Dictor comes no Balance.
Keep the dictor.
~Switch
[ This Message was edited by: _x$witchBladex_ {Kama Sutra} on 2006-02-19 00:11 ]
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2006-02-19 00:17
Everyone deserves a dictor, it's fair gameplay..and Sure, Elf is strong, as it should be...The ships that have Elf, also have less energy, giving them a boost they need...
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2006-02-19 01:14
Bah, nobody deserves a dictor. We hates them! They interdicted the precious!
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HaVoX
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
| Posted: 2006-02-19 02:04
No let them take the dictor, they can have it. BUT let the luth become the first strike sneaky enemy they should be, make our weapons powerful enough that a ship of the same size takes a ship of the same size down to a min of 50 hull reguardless of faction. Then who needs dictors, the ship behind the alpha strike ship will send them to a ship yard.
I've played some of the ships in beta and all I can say is "wow luth is nerfed again" Come on, even if we are cloaked we should be able to fly top speed with out running out of energy. Cloak speed sucks still, we tested it, enemys can fire 3 full salvos to a luths one. Big whoop for the sneak attack when they shoot you before your weapons are free and shoot you 2 more times before u cloak, not to mention your lucky if you do enough damage to drop thier sheilds or armor by 40% while the luth ship goes hull or loses systems. So then you cloak and try to run, but can only do so at half speed since ur weaps are charging and your cloak is draining you like mad.
Yea take the dictor, keep giving luth ECCM instead or a gen which makes sense, I mean heck I love the opportunity to ECCM ping myself and wonder why I want a device to make my stealth ship easier to see rather then a generator to give me more power to fight with.
In a nut shell I am tired of all the ranting on how luth is so over powerd and needs this or that taken from them. We dont have the ECCM fighter shuttle, no planet siege missles, no nuets (just bios, less range and less bombs), no mirvs (tele-kintics come stock 18 speed cant put in dreads), nerfed armor and cloaks that dont work like they should (should be able to jump cloaked and cloak should drop same time you fire your alpha)
I'd be happy to see the dictor go for the luth if the following things happen.
way more powerfull weapons (longer charge time would be acceptable if cloak took much less energy)
faster cloak (do something please 3 to 1 shot ratio is just bad)
equal tech items (planet siege, spy shuttles, real bombs)
and some armor that did more then look pretty
and on a side note why can I pick up inf cloaked but not drop cloaked, even to a friendly planet or ship, not real smart for a race that devloped space travel. should be other way around really, cant see me cloaked so stay on planet, but I can see planet so go get em killers!
Now I know Backy will qoute and flame me as he does everyone, thats fine, hes very pro anybody but luth (primarly UGTO) I'm used to being flamed.
Signed a disatisfied HaVoX
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-19 05:34
K'luth didn't have a dictor originally you know? Dictors are currently another thing ruining the game, and quite honestly, the ICC and UGTO ones should be nerfed to high hell (maximum of 30 seconds dictor activation time / energy usage fix). But I just don't think the K'luth dictor fits into how they play, due to having to uncloak to run the dictor, it's just not a stealth ship, and quite honestly, I ask myself "Why would K'luth have such a ship?". Regardless of removing ships anywho, all the dictors need a major nerf.
Also Switch, if you had read any of the other threads, you'd realise I'm pushing for cloaking to be fixed, along with beacons, and eccm pinging. I believe that if the cloaking is fixed, then you become an effective faction again, with no fussing about with the armour and anything else. Since you can't get the first strike, you're effectivly crippled. Fixing that could change everything dramaticly for K'luth, but we won't know untill it's actually implimented or changed, or what not.
Also, 50 hull in one alpha? Jesus, your weapons do enough damage as it is!
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2006-02-19 05:44 ]
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HaVoX
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
| Posted: 2006-02-19 16:49
Heh, 50 hull was a extreame statement ment to bring up the fact that a primarily first strike and run race does little to no damage on the first strike. We go to hull in 2 to 3 salvos from even matched ships. 2 t o3 salvos is not dukeing it out, continued sustained combat over several mins and 6 to 8 salvos would be considered duking it out.
Yes luth ships need more damage and faster cloaking, no doubt about it, but UGOT and ICC also need a weapons revamp as well. More and longer ranged missles for both sides with a shorter charge time. cannons that are longer ranged, slower to fire but do more damage. A better tracking and hit ratio on all sides, and a much higher energy out put for ships not moving or going very slowly alowing them a fair trade off for being a easier target by doing more damage with all weaps available with out the energy drain of higher speeds.
Take the luth dictor if you must, claim its not faction oriented (I tend to agree with that) but give all the things back to luth they deserve as a stealh race, cloaked jumping, droping and loading inf, first fire from cloak, the ablity to travel at high speeds cloaked, engine noise gone (its space and a vacume, not the ocean no sound in space), leave the armour as it is but let the auto repair work on it as well as hull like a sup would, up the damage of first strikes but make weapons charge longer forcing the need to hide again. Weaps that dont hurt dont make it worth it. Do all this and I wont complain about taking the dictor to much, fix the items above not mentioned here and I wont complain at all.
And thanks for not flaming Backy
HaVoX
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-19 18:13
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On 2006-02-19 16:49, HaVoX wrote:
Heh, 50 hull was a extreame statement ment to bring up the fact that a primarily first strike and run race does little to no damage on the first strike. We go to hull in 2 to 3 salvos from even matched ships. 2 t o3 salvos is not dukeing it out, continued sustained combat over several mins and 6 to 8 salvos would be considered duking it out.
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Problem here is the decloak time. It takes too long, and gives your oponent time to hurt you first, and doesn't allow you to get your full damage across.
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Yes luth ships need more damage and faster cloaking, no doubt about it, but UGOT and ICC also need a weapons revamp as well. More and longer ranged missles for both sides with a shorter charge time. cannons that are longer ranged, slower to fire but do more damage. A better tracking and hit ratio on all sides, and a much higher energy out put for ships not moving or going very slowly alowing them a fair trade off for being a easier target by doing more damage with all weaps available with out the energy drain of higher speeds.
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Hm... I don't think they need more damage. They already have teh most damaging weapons in the game... Their cloak is a big factor if everything kluth though (since it's tied in to so much). I also don't agree with the ICC and UGTO weapons rethinger... Cannons on dreads can reach about 2.5k gu, which is pretty far, and IT missiles can go just the same distance. Tracking and hit ratio is almost perfect for sides. F torps track the best, least damage, small splash. P torps do the middle. AM torps track the worst, do the most damage, and huge splash (even if you miss with AM torps, the splash can do just as much damage a lot of the time). Tracking wise, it should be harder to hit smaller ships, due to their being weaker, and easier to hit bigger ships, due to them being stronger. Same class v same class, it should be pretty balanced, and I think it is at the moment. Energy wise, for some ships, deffinatly need a fix... But otherwise, I think most ships are PERFECT on energy. K'luth ships (especially dreads) do insane levels of damage to the same class ships, so technicaly, even though your energy is used up quicker, you're doing more damage in a shorter time, so it makes no difference. And if you cloak (if cloak is fixed!), you can recharge your energy, and go in for another attack...
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Take the luth dictor if you must, claim its not faction oriented (I tend to agree with that) but give all the things back to luth they deserve as a stealh race, cloaked jumping, droping and loading inf, first fire from cloak, the ablity to travel at high speeds cloaked, engine noise gone (its space and a vacume, not the ocean no sound in space), leave the armour as it is but let the auto repair work on it as well as hull like a sup would, up the damage of first strikes but make weapons charge longer forcing the need to hide again. Weaps that dont hurt dont make it worth it. Do all this and I wont complain about taking the dictor to much, fix the items above not mentioned here and I wont complain at all.
And thanks for not flaming Backy
HaVoX
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Cloaked jumping presents a problem... This is something that will need to be talked about again, because I can see it being abused... The reason the cloak was given a decloak timer, was purely because K'luth could jump to a planet, waltz up to the planet, and unload their infantry on the planet... Without being detected. So you have an entire ICC or UGTO fleet going "WHAT THE BLOODY NORA JUST HAPPENED" when they find 600+ K'luth infantry on their planet all of a sudden. I think perhaps cloaked jumping should be allowed, but it reset the cloak timer on arival. For instance, if decloak is fixed to 0 seconds, then you could jump away quickly anyway (decloak instantly, hit J), but when you land, you're cloak timer is reset, and you 'blip' on the enemies radar for however long it takes your cloak to re-cloak you. Also, to combat the whole infantry thing, perhaps the decloak timer we have currently, could be applied too components in the cargo bay only. This would mean no instant decloak and cap, but at the same time, it allows the kluth to decloak and fire, and be what they're meant to be.
The ability to travel at high speeds cloaked... I dunno... I think a energy cost at higher speeds is needed... But perhaps 50% is too much. Maybe 75% speed untill the energy starts being sucked away. Maybe, while cloaked, below 50% speed, you have your normal energy, and it's normal energy charge rate. From 50% to 75%, you get slow reduction to no energy recharge, but no energy reduction either. Over 75% speed, you get a slow reduction in your energy... It's not uber nerf, but it's better than what you have now. As always, things need to be tested, and cloak times havn't even been changed or implimented yet... So we have no idea what change that will make to things.
Engine noise, I totaly agree on. Remove it when cloaked. I don't care for beacons, give me 8:1 surround sound or a pair of good headphones and I can find any kluth ship.
AHR is a tricky one. It's Auto Hull Repair, not auto armour repair, and organic armour already repairs at a faster rate than normal armour. But like I said, we have no idea on what impact the cloak times will make. At the moment, it actually gives the enemy the first strike on you when you decloak... Removing that weakness could give an extra alpha to you, or remove an alpha from them, making all the difference.
Also, as far as weapons are concenered, the fact your cloak doesn't give you the first hit, severaly impacts the performance of K'luth... I mean...
It loses you the first strike, losing surprise, and damage.
It gives the enemy the first strike, meaning you take more damage.
Beacons on any ship remove most chances of being able to cloak.
Ambient sound means that even cloaked, players can track you.
If the above things are fixed, then you stand a chance to gain a lot. As I've said before, it's not that I'm suggesting nerfing K'luth, it's that cloak plays SUCH an important part to K'luth, that any changes made to cloak, could have a very, very big impact on how you play. The above changes could infact fix your faction completly. But we won't know, and changing too many things at once, could produce more problems. Since if all of a sudden kluth become too uber because of all the changes at once, then we won't know which one has caused that, and it makes it harder for Tael and Faustus to fix.
But I really do think that small changes to cloak, and some other small things, could make K'luth a lot more fun to play, and a lot more balanced. Everyone thought adding the decloak timer would be a tiny effect... Look how huge it effected the kluth... Sometimes, small things can have a big effect, and that's what I believe cloak is to the kluth... A thing that with little changes, could have big effects.
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Malorn
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2003
Posts: 42
From: USA Eastern Time
| Posted: 2006-02-19 18:31
I'm afraid I really don't agreed that dictor should be nerfed or removed, perhaps rebalanced. Basically, it is far to easy to run away, so normally, whichever side has the most force carries the day without even fighting the enemy. Mainly because the enemy doesn't show up at all or runs when they realize they can't win.
Understand that I agree with this tactic, it is only good sense to leave if you can't win. But, this entire game has always been about fleet to fleet or ship to ship combat. The planet capping is only there to encourage battles, and to give us something to fight for. If we remove the ability to prevent ships from leaving, then we will never have a fight that concludes.
My personal theory is, remove dictors as they now work, and create a single ship interdictor. Thus a player could grab hold of a ship and prevent it from leaving. Have a pretty low range, and high energy burn, so that a ship can get away, if it's fast enough to get out of range of the dictor. But that's just my theory.
Another idea is this, have dictors add to the time it takes to configure a jump. So that a person can jump out, but it will take a min or so to work around the interdiction field. Then jack up the range, so that most times you'd have to jump out within the field.
Right now it feels as if very few people play dictors, mainly because they give no pres. That means that it very rare for a battle to conclude, especially when a larger ship is being attacked by smaller ships. The larger ship will often fight until it's armor is failing, then run, with little or no problem. And the smaller ships, which would have won if the battle continued, are left with no pres at all.
This is a large problem for the ICC, since they are optimized for long battles, rather then killing their prey quickly. K'luth seem to have some issues as well, but I suspect that fixing cloak would solve a number of problems. Three K'luth cruisers all firing on one ship would really hurt it. I'm thinking a bit like a submarine wolf pack. They get close, decloak, fire twice, recloak, and flee.
And yes, they really should be able to jump while cloaked, though it's only fair that they be visible while jumping, unless the devs plan to give them another penalty.
Anyway, just my viewpoint.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-19 19:17
I very, VERY much like two of your ideas...
#1, the take hold of a single ship, with high energy burn...
#2, the add to jump charge time within the field. The further away from the dictor, the less effect it has.
I wouldn't worry about prestige, as there have been talks about grouping coming back (I hope so), which means that someone would be able to gain prestige, if their fleet was playing with them as support.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2006-02-20 04:41
Ill put this short and sweet.
Jack, whatever your reasoning is, every factions dictor is a tactical asset. In fact, the use of the dictor comes strictly at the disadvantage of the pilot, and the faction if the pilot knows not what hes doing.
The dictors - should stay. They shouldent be the infinate power beasts they currently are, no. They are meant to keep people from jumping away to get that 'kill'.
No dictor should have the power to attack, much less ,defend itself. Its meant to be used in a fleet, or on loners, but not as a main ship.
And that is that.
-Ent
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