| Author |
Please remove observe |
Mad Bum
Grand Admiral
ExtraTerrestrial Space Bums
Joined: March 06, 2004
Posts: 171
|  Posted: 2006-02-21 12:50
The ability to observe what is going on in the system by pressing escape then observe allows you to cycle through all objects insystem including players.
Not so much newbie or admiral just remove the ability in the metaverse.
20 mins getting a fleet organized with ecm followed by 5 mins sneaking in on a planet from outside detection range is negated by one quick look in observe mode.
This is completely negating the stealth part of suprise attacks, as you can see there is a station plus 4 dreads for instance insystem and also there general location from background planets types/location relative to ships.
From a kluth point of view if your going to sneak up on an enemy it is hard to do when with a few mouse clicks you can see where i am.
Thanks 
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2006-02-21 12:55
you realise thats not a NEW application of that feature right?
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2006-02-21 13:00
Quote:
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On 2006-02-21 12:50, Mad Bum wrote:
This is completely negating the stealth part of suprise attacks, as you can see there is a station plus 4 dreads for instance insystem and also there general location from background planets types/location relative to ships.
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acutally no, if a kluth ship is cloaked, its cloaked in obs too, a scout will look just like a station. furthermore, without planet labels, figureing out where a person is can be rather tricky (id say theres some skill involved), and if player is out away from planets... good luck finding them (improbable, but not impossible). and general location is still a long way from knowing exactly where they are
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Light-of-Aurora
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 01, 2003
Posts: 602
From: NJ, USA
| Posted: 2006-02-21 13:35
When I found that out a while back, I wondered.. surely, this is against the rules? I thought it would be.. but the DS manual itself acknowledges the possibility of in-game observe usage, saying only to be careful, as you can't defend yourself if attacked.
I'm assuming it isn't against the rules.. but it does seem unrealistic..[you know.. like how you run sensor scans on your starship everyday  ]
'Realisticness' isn't the best argument for a game like this though..
Observe can sometimes kill gameplay in Admiral and Newbie, where one can just find planet clusters/stars, note their size, and jump accordingly..
In MV, I think Observe only works in-system, so it's almost like the small servers, but.. not..
Observe is sort of funky..
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-21 14:13
You have no way of knowing what ship you're in.
You have no way of knowing what planet you're near.
You have no way of knowing anything really, just a look at where the player is. No tags. Nothing.
I'd guess that someone actually looked at the nav map and saw a lot of rings from your ECM.
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Mad Bum
Grand Admiral
ExtraTerrestrial Space Bums
Joined: March 06, 2004
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2006-02-21 14:37
ok i dont post very often but i wanted to make a suggestion about the game which i have.
If an enemy briefly jumps too near to a planet on its way to the rest of its invasion fleet, you get a momentary enemy detected near such and such planet (say sag hotha and the enemy is an ugto invasion fleet about to ecm bomb a planet).
Atm you could spawn in the same system check observe and tell the following.
1.How many enemy ships are in-system
2.what type ie how many sups how many agincourts how many stations scouts etc
3.If less than 50k from the nearest planet exactly where they are using simple geometry, size of star, position of planet relative to star etc if near another planet it is even easier to find the invading fleet.
An example where its been used i jump slightly too close to maurbon cluster giving a momentary blip.
Nim spawns checks observe (lots of distinct easy to find rough location of where i am).
Jumps to within 500gu of my position eccm pings and beacons me in a dictor the rest im sure you can guess.
If the observe wasnt there, then you would know nothing about the enemy except that there is one enemy near one of your planets. Which is more realistic.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-02-21 15:15
Or, when it says "Enemy detected". You press H and camera the planet, go to Nav, and then look for ECM rings. So much easier.
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2006-02-21 15:51
Actualy, if you have knowledge of the systsem your in, spotting a planet in the system is very easy..Go on and say you cant, but if you do know the system, and have played in the MV long enough, you know the planet..
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Ants
Chief Marshal
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 315
From: Canada
| Posted: 2006-02-21 23:21
Quote:
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On 2006-02-21 14:13, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
You have no way of knowing what ship you're in.
You have no way of knowing what planet you're near.
You have no way of knowing anything really, just a look at where the player is. No tags. Nothing.
I'd guess that someone actually looked at the nav map and saw a lot of rings from your ECM.
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Ok the observe mode is VERY easy to find ships... Most kluth know Me as I can always find them or track them... I can find you in open space away from any planets just by the background... then i look at my background to see where about the stars nebulas are and then ill move at a good speed and jump towards the direction of where they are.. in the observe mode you will see your JG trail to triangulate the locaton of where he/she is.. and when you get closer to hm/her you can see your ION trail... also you an easly see what planet hey are at by colour size and it's suroundings... So yes the only thing you wont know is exectlly what ship they are in... I know because I've used it... so then that makes only one thing right You have no way of knowing what ship you're in.
Quote:
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On 2006-02-21 15:15, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Or, when it says "Enemy detected". You press H and camera the planet, go to Nav, and then look for ECM rings. So much easier.
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and if it is kluth and cloaks without ECM on... Observe can still tell you where exectlly he/she is... All you need is to put one and two together.
GET RID OF IT
[ This Message was edited by: Fatal Ants *XO 1* on 2006-02-21 23:35 ]
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2006-02-22 10:58
you people need imagination.
so you can be seen, big whoop. give your enemy something to look at to keep their eyes away from observer. create a distraction.. even if it looks like a trap, big whoop.
its really not a insurmountable obstacle, im sure you people are mostly intelligent and even creative
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Mad Bum
Grand Admiral
ExtraTerrestrial Space Bums
Joined: March 06, 2004
Posts: 171
| Posted: 2006-02-22 13:50
The whole idea of the kluth faction is based on stealth, observe mode like eccm pinging is a way around that stealth that shouldnt be there.
The developers have enough to do with there precious time, if you have a constructive point for or against the removal of observe please feel free to post.
If not please do us all a favor and refrain from wasting there time.
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2006-02-22 15:54
There's little to discuss here really.
When a ship is not detected by means intented by the game mechanics, there should be no way of telling whether it even is in the system. That alone can be far enough to spoil the element of surprise.
Ergo, disable Observe in Release, or a similiar solution..
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2006-02-22 16:21
I was suprised to see anyone supporting the use of this function..
Sure, it may not tell your exact location, place, or bearing.
But it does infact, reveal you are there.
How so? Say you amass a large UGTO fleet, and you go to an ICC system. In effect, I don't know your there. You have the element of suprise where we cant mobilze to defend.
In other words, we become sitting ducks.
So one of us, decides to go into observer mode and cycles.
Guess what. No more supirse, we know your there. So we immediately call people into the system, and now guess what, that UGTO fleets plan on suprise was nulled because we know your there.
For KLuth, this is even more devestating, because they MUST not be seen, or known to be there. Because this ruins their very own tactics.
Get. Rid. Of. It.
-Ent
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2006-02-22 16:27
Honestly, i don't see what the problem is. this function predates most of the players today and is a PART of the game, hence the no removal of the observe option in previous versions. and as also stated by jack, there are just as easy ways if not easier to discover the same information... although i can see this posing a bit of a threat in the current beta game due to the small scale of the playing field, i can't see it being a big problem in the mv. if someone wants to spend hours looking for a possible kluth armada that might or might not be there, well, give er. instead you could be in playing the game!
and btw to the best of my knowledge this has never been a problem before this point.. and there have still been MANY surprise fleet attacks on planets... sheesh, come on people. i'm sher some of us remember evil and pb in the mv... it sher as hell didn't slow them down one bit, so i don't believe this affects the kluth any more than anyone else and regarding the eccm pinging, as stated elsewhere it is being looked after...
[ This Message was edited by: Rae on 2006-02-22 16:41 ]
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Crim
Fleet Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 16, 2003
Posts: 1336
| Posted: 2006-02-22 19:19
Quote:
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On 2006-02-22 16:27, Rae wrote:
and btw to the best of my knowledge this has never been a problem before this point..
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A) Our armor is alot weaker than what it was ( except when we actualy had no armor..)
B) in previous versions, ECCM could find our ships..
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