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no71171 *CL*[retired]
Cadet
Joined: January 19, 2005
Posts: 46
From: Shelby, North Carolina
|  Posted: 2006-09-22 10:54
Crim, I haven't done any real bombing in quite a while now, contrary to what you think. I have spent the last month doing almost nothing but building, will occasional combat...before you jump to the conclusion that I bombed constantly, which is incorrect, try actually finding out some of the facts before you speak on them. I have spent far, far more time in construction, combat, and supply, than bombing in the last few months, as everyone on UGTO can attest.
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Nemain
Cadet
Joined: September 18, 2006
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2006-09-22 11:00
As much as I hate bombing, I have to agree with eagle.
People pay to play darkspace the way they want to play it.
A question that psychologists like to use a lot is this:
Who and what do you have control over?
The answer is:
Only yourself, and only what you do. You cannot control what other people do, and these threads are pointless. The devs will release the patch when they are ready. Players will play how THEY want, as they paid for their own subscription(as long as its not against RoC, and Bombing is legal)
My advice is, if you like combat, dont build anything, just save your ships, try to stay alive, and fight people. If you like building, just build. If you like bombing, bomb. If you like supplying, supply.
If you are against bombers, then set an example and dont bomb. That is all you can do. Nothing you say will prevent them from bombing(if anything, it will make them bomb more).
Let people play how THEY want to play.
[ This Message was edited by: Nemain on 2006-09-22 11:01 ]
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16:38:19 [-Merc-]Nemain: \"Faustus, you are my hero *hugs* lol\"
16:38:48 [Admin]Faustus: \"lol... thanks nemain\"
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HaVoX
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
| Posted: 2006-09-22 11:48
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On 2006-09-22 10:06, Eagleranger{EOM} wrote:
please understand i dont usually reply to threads like these why ive been around darkspace since 2002 and there are always threads where people think this is unbalanced and this is wrong and that is wrong go to eve-online same there.
there is a old saying "you can please some of the people some of time ,most of the people most of the time ,but you cant please all the people all the time.
with this being said bombing is legal yes ive nuetron up intill last night since comming back to ds i have lost more pres due to changes in the combat pres and such i should have been to fa along time ago but i didnt focus on pres this is how i see it if i want to bomb i bomb, if i want to build i build, if i want to supply i supply, if i want to fight i fight I PAY FOR MY SUBSCRIPTION NO ONE ELSE, SO I PLAY THE WAY I WANT AS LONG AS ITS PART OF THE GAME ! i am one of the few pilots that fly modded ships not hybrids (such as the missle dred with all fusion torps) i neut if i dont plan to rebuild or some one in the fleet isnt going to build thats just how it is and ill mirv if i plan to rebuild so i get both pres for bombing and building NOW IF ANYONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS ,,,,,,,,,,,TOUGH ,,,,,,,,TILL YOU START PAYING FOR MY SUBSCRIPION DONT BE SO ARROGANT AS TO TELL ME NOT TO USE A LEGAL GAME MECHANIC TO BUILD MY ACCOUNT
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Amen brother!
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icansee
Cadet
Joined: August 02, 2006
Posts: 327
| Posted: 2006-09-22 13:15
kk fair point bnut iguuta feeling soon we will be moaninga bout something els eand yeh dont bomb if you hate mirvers
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2006-09-22 14:53
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On 2006-09-22 10:54, no71171 *CL*[retired] wrote:
Crim, I haven't done any real bombing in quite a while now, contrary to what you think. I have spent the last month doing almost nothing but building, will occasional combat...before you jump to the conclusion that I bombed constantly, which is incorrect, try actually finding out some of the facts before you speak on them. I have spent far, far more time in construction, combat, and supply, than bombing in the last few months, as everyone on UGTO can attest.
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You did bomb constantly, for a good time. Why? Because the K'luth attacked UGTO. Didnt even have to mirv them, but the UGTO saw it as a justified reason to go on a mirving spree. I havent been active the last month, but the last month doesnt even matter, because it is the result of the UGTO's past bombings.
The point is, is that you are one of the many who's caused this mirving problem. You cant realy bitch about building every day, its happend to every faction. Every faction has had times where it's had to build atleast once a day.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2006-09-22 15:28
This is one of those issues that really make me mad...
I try to ignore the fact but it does, infact, show up in my face. Alot.
Now here, I never expected Crim to, infact, support bombing in this version.
The argument, here, is a matter of the fun of one side vs. the fun of another.
One however, uses it as an excuse. not as anything else.
For combat players, fun is costly. To have fun, your going to die, and dieing means losing alot of prestige. Too much prestige. Here the case is, where most people turn to bombing.
I will estimate that infact 1 out of every 20 bombers, actually derives a sense of fun from bombing.
I will estimate, that 1, out of every 5. of those who have fun bombing, do not have bombing as their highest stat.
Now what you ask, does that matter for?
The evidence proves everything. Before 1.483, few, if any people at all had more than 15.000 planets damaged. This is because even then, with the bombing bug, it was not as easy, and definately not as straightforeward. Not many people did it because then, it wasn't a grind to the top. Only those that had FUN doing it, did it. This was maybe a 1 : 10 ratio of bombers : combatants.
Infact, before this version, finding a bomber was hard.
This version, the ratio of bombers to combats much around 6:4. I want to also point out that nearly every single bomber that has hit FA or GA, they stop bombing, or dramatically bomb less, as soon as they reach that rank.
Guess why.
If you dont believe me, look through the database, and show me 10 people who are GA, who's bombing points are at least 3x higher than the next highest stat, and check it, and check it. Especially active players.
See, I dont just lobby camp, I take the time to look at profiles and see them, if im curious. I like to keep track of things.
I can understand people playing for their own fun, for their own amusment. This is why for example, You see people like GothThug (yes I WILL use him as an example) with both high bombing and engineering stats. This is why you will see people like Doran, who have amazingly high repair and ships damaged stats.
But when I see things like this, the blatant grind to FA or GA for the highest level ships, those people who use the excuse 'Its part of the game, deal with it' to justify indescriminate bombing, those people, who claim they do it for fun, yet, stop as soon as they reach the goal they aimed for.
Its sickening, and apalling. And especially sad for people like me, who spent 4 1/2 years gaining what he earned through fairness and balance, rather than those people who have played for 4 1/2 months, and have the same.
Or better.
I can completely understand Kanmans desires, his pleas, to the community to stop indescriminate bombing. To stop what is, infact, destroying this game from the inside, for your high ranks and your high prestige. I laugh at those who call bombing part of the game as an excuse to do these continued, dilliberate acts. Bombing is one thing. Nuking entire darned systems and factions in one night was not how Darkspace was intended to be played as.
Im going to lay out, what Darkspace, was intended as.
Darkspace, before, was not just a game of combat. It never was. Darkspace is the collective aspects of combat, planetary capture, and bombardment, and the other aspects of repairing and building. All this fit together in the same, systematic arcade style where 3 factions fought over the same pieces of rock again and again, until a side gained the upper hand.
That was the game then. That was what this game is meant to be. The balance of all of it. The combat forces to secure the area around a planet, the bombers to come in and disable the defences, the transports to come in and capture the planet, the engineers to swoop on it and rebuild it for their side, the supply ships to repair the fleet, and admist it all, the great battle, for the entire map.
That was the game then. Now it is not.
Now it is the game, where you pick a bomber immediately. You dibn't need a massive fleet anymore, to secure a planet. You do not need transports, for the mass dropping of infantry. You do not need the engineers to rebuild the planets. You almost dont even need a supply ship, at all anymore.
Infact, all you need to do, is jump to a planet, hit B, and haul ass.
Because infact, thats the only thing, that you do in this game anymore.
I myself, am going to say right here. For those bombers who take true, tried fun in it, like Crimson, and Nim, and no, I say, I'm sorry your reputation is now tarnished by this.
For all the other bombers who try to use that excuse, it doesnt work anymore for me. Maybe for other gullible folks, but not me.
Darkspace is not the game it was. And I have doubts, it will ever be that game again.
-Ent
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2006-09-22 15:38
and Ent picks up the spare! 
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Rae
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: May 23, 2002
Posts: 284
From: 10 minutes away in a fast boat
| Posted: 2006-09-22 15:50
that was damn good ent... not a thing i can say to a well researched and laid out post... just one thing i would like to see... Faustus, if you're readin this, how about a response?
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GothThug {C?}
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 29, 2005
Posts: 2932
| Posted: 2006-09-22 15:58
Ent hit the nail on the head lol, and he's right, this game isnt what it used to be anymore....Fun!  and i appreciate you using me as an example, but anyone who's known me on kluth knows i dont bomb indescriminately, i bomb, cap, and Rebuild to gain ground, This Indescriminate bombing comes solely from 1 player and 1 player only and he's got the 2nd highest Stats on ICC from bombing.....im done with this crap.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2006-09-22 17:53
And yet - the people who Ent is talking about will never admit to it - they have their collective heads stuffed so far up their bombing stat that they will not accept any responsibility for their actions. Just kids playing a game - but, unlike console games that we were all raised on, your actions have an effect on every single other player here.
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
| Posted: 2006-09-22 18:48
i agree with Ent and Coeus's latest post. if you all have noticed i have been playing a LOT less ever since UGTO got stripped of their systems. most of the time when i did login i was the highest ranked UGTO player.....ME!! the .483 noob! i don't build anymore because we cannot keep a built planet at all. all i do is just cap the planets in our home system and defend them. i have yet to use my Battle Dread in a real fleet battle. i, for one, am a combat player, as almost everyone can attest. and players will always see me in a dreadnought, even though they say they are weak. i sign with Kanman, Enterprise, and any other player that says STOP THE BOMBING. and i will unsub to force Palestar and Faustus's hand to hurry up .484 and release it or at least hotfix .483 anbd get rid of the indiscreminate bombing. players like Poopshackles, for example, will be one of the weaker players when this game goes back to combat. he has no experience in a combat-class Dreadnought. all he did was bomb to Admiral in 4 months...while it took me 11 months to reach the same rank. i may be rambling a bit here, but i agree, STOP THE FRIGGIN MIRVING.
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Dionysian *EP5* (Angel of Destruction)
Grand Admiral
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 135
| Posted: 2006-09-22 19:10
I say so true.
No one can stop bombing and those that say it is a part of the game are right. Bombing is a part of the game. But so is building. All we are saying to those who want to Mirv is MIrv id you must but at least rebuild after. Don;t leave 4 or 5 former enemy sectors in ruins
If you keep doing it - all your enemy will evere do is build. And when they get bombed again they will get dis heartened and stop building.
Then you have no enemy - i.e. no one to play against.
Lets try to keep it fair - I noticed tonight in the UGTO - ICC battle in R33 that although UGTO were outnumbered a fight lasted for a long time.
Imagine how much better the fight would have been with balanced sides. I noticed a couple of ICC people who last week were UGTO - If they came back it woulkd restore the balance and make it fun for all. I also noticed dictors AND EDs on the ICC side despuite the big firepower advantage. I don't want to drag up the whole dictor / ED arguement but this is a game. If your oponent doesn't enjoy it they won;t play against you.
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2006-09-22 19:19
Quote:
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On 2006-09-22 15:28, Enterprise wrote:
Now here, I never expected Crim to, infact, support bombing in this version.
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Did I ever say 'LOL YAY FOR BOMBING!' here? No. I'm only supporting the players right to bomb. I realy dont care about who mirvs what, and what gets mirved, and how many times it gets mirved. I do care about certain players who constantly harrass players because they bomb, because they see it as lame.
And for the reputation thing.. Never had one.
[ This Message was edited by: Crim {ISC} on 2006-09-22 19:21 ]
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HaVoX
Fleet Admiral
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 269
From: Florida whoo hoo
| Posted: 2006-09-22 19:53
............................
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2006-09-22 20:07
Ah, but I remember you Crim, you did have quite the reputation as a bomber - you pointed that out to me before.
However, yeah, you are supporting it, with this quote:
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Players can bomb how they choose, and how much they want. Just because you, or anyone else, doesnt like it make them have to stop. Alot of players have rebuilt, but only to be mirved/fighter bombed by the other factions.
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How they want and how they choose? How they want and choose involves 60% of all the players in a bomber, constantly roving the MV, killing off whatever planet isnt defended, whatever is the weakest, invariably working them until someone, somehow, shows up to defend it.
And even thats an If.
All players have the right to bomb. Kanman, did not suggest totally keeping people from bombing. He did not suggest, that bombing be removed. Did he? I didn't see it.
However he did ask, that players stop taking advantage of a bug, and of overpowered bombers, to level systems, leaving them behind set and capped. And not built.
Note he did not suggest; he asked.
Im also going to say quite simply, that like combat, bombing is not everything, but in this version is seems to be, because thats what most players do. Its not for the tactical advantage, its not for any advanatge, at all, except for the player itself doing the bombing.
And people - the vast majority of people - take advantage of that the Administrators can not - or will not - stop the blatant abuse of bombing and the bug associated with it.
Im going to simply say again, to hope its simple enough. There is a difference between bombing for the good of a faction, and the bombing of a faction for the benefit of the person grinding for prestige.
-Ent
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