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Thought Experiment |
Rhiawhyn Zerinth
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 257
From: I.C.C Deep space refueling station
|  Posted: 2006-10-22 14:54
all i can see is if we do hit ftl about 5min later (to us) we will smack a planet of some kind, think ds only you cant stop yourself. can you say explodyboom
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Ship-Of-Fools
2nd Rear Admiral
Angry Mob
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 415
From: USA
| Posted: 2006-10-22 16:16
space is bigger than u think, I think our galaxy is 100 thousand light years across, and the nearest star, is proxima centuri (someone correct me if I am wrong) it is aprox 4 light years away, so in our spirel arm of the galaxy, room is not a problem, although I have read that it is much more crowded in the core,
I also remember reading about the Voyager probe, how after its last flyby, was aimed at the nearest star to Sol, and was expected to take like 20 thousand years to get there, ( or 10,000 to clear the ort(SP) cloud, and 10,000 more to reach the gravitational effects of the nearest star (that one I mentioned before)
I know someone will pick all this apart, as I am going from stuff I learned in grade school, and that was a while back
but if I am even close it gives a hint at the vastness of space
ohh I am calculating a lightyear as 186K
so thats 186k*60 seconds in a min
*60 mins in an hour
*24 hours in a day*
*365 days in a year
I have that figured as 5.865696 × 10to the 12th power
went off on a tangent didnt I?
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Rhiawhyn Zerinth
Fleet Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 257
From: I.C.C Deep space refueling station
| Posted: 2006-10-22 18:08
heres the thing tho if you are moving at the speed of light then that whole time thingy pops into play and to you it seems like only 5-10min or days were as 5-10 min/day could be about 5 to 10 years normal time
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death is not the greatest loss of life, the greatest lost of life is what dies inside of us while we live.
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Ship-Of-Fools
2nd Rear Admiral
Angry Mob
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 415
From: USA
| Posted: 2006-10-22 21:54
errr
if I got into a ship, and aimed at a star 10 light years away,
once I had excelerated to light speed, every person on the ship would experience 10 years of subjective time, aging, wrinkles and all, while the rest of the universe experienced some multiple of that, for example 50 years, I am unsure how this could be computed, as its still just a theory, and cannot at this time be tested(but I am sure someone can, i am a dropout, and not allowed to take the cork off my fork yet, so I will not even pretend I can)
I am not sure where your getting mins or days
the 10 year figure is assuming there is no exceleration time, which would probably take longer than the trip ( as without a perfect inertia sink (or compensater) the ship would only be able to accelerate at a safe speed, say one Gee, which would make it comfortable to live on the ship for people.
the obvious problem is that the ship would have to be HUGE, u would need food, water, for 10 (plus excelleration time)years, mostly fuel to have constant acceleration, and you eventually reach a point of diminished returns,
at this time, intersteller travel is not realistic, because of the time constrains
sci-fi has suggested answers, such as cryo, ark ships, and arkships that use bussard scoops, sometimes referred to as slowboats (bear in mind that these are scifi writers
going back to the original topic,I dont think a ship can excellerate to light speed in realitivistic space, we need a loophole...like subspace, or warp, or wormholes, at which point the question of man "A" becomes irrevelent, as then we would have to first figure out how fast the ship was moving in "hyperspace" to calculate how fast he is moving including his walking speed
I always like the old idea of the ship that stayed in place, and using technology, and a "greater" understanding of field theory, moved the universe
tangent again, sorry
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Capt.picard
Admiral
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 97
From: Peterborough, England
| Posted: 2006-10-23 14:06
a ship that was simply travelling at the speed of light (no warp drives, wormholes, hyperdrives, etc.) would experiance no time, will try to explain how.
imagine a light clock, a photon of light bouncing back and forth between two mirrors a set distance appart. this photon is travelling at the speed of light, if i then moved this clock from side to side the path the photon would have to take would be longer, and since the photon can only travel at the speed of light it would appear (to an out side obeserver) that the clock is slowing down. if a ship had this light clock on it and was traveling at the speed of light the photon would appear to stop as it cannot travel up or down to bounce of the mirrors because (not a scientific way of putting it but i hope it gets the idea across) all of its speed would be "used up" moving along with the ship. this is all from the point of an out side observer watching the ship, if you where sitting at a window on that ship the universe would apear to be moving through time at an infinate velocity. Travelling at the speed of light would not be a good idea for many reasons, but the fact that would would be at the end of the universe the instant you reach the speed of light is probably the best one...
appologies for any gramma or spelling mistakes i didn't pick up, hope this helps.
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Ship-Of-Fools
2nd Rear Admiral
Angry Mob
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 415
From: USA
| Posted: 2006-10-23 20:24
picard, I am very interested in this "light clock" I think it is an interesting concept, almost sounds like a laser, with a stop watch lol
I am not making fun
you have raised an interesting Idea, say a "light clock device" was present on a light sped ship? even if it a "slowboat"
or a ship with "fold" ability
food for thought
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Binks
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 469
| Posted: 2006-10-23 20:42
Interesting concept with the light clock, however there is one error in your statements, any observers will still see the photon as travelling at C.
As a ship with a light clock approached C the observers aboard the ship would see the light moving at the speed of light, not because it's actually moving any differently but because time slows in such a way that the slight difference in speed between C and the ship's speed becomes proportional to the time dialation, basicly time slows down just enough to make the slight difference in speed between the photon and the ship seem like the speed of light.
As for outside observers, they see the light moving at C as well, and the ship as moving almost as fast as the light. So you are correct in that all the light's velocity is "used up" travelling along with the ship, but since it's still moving at C it's still percieved to move at C
When the ship actually reaches C time stops for those aboard, because the passage of time is actually dependent on the light ray appearing to travel at C to those aboard.
Basicly, in a vacuum, the passage of time can be seen as a property of the light moving back and forth at an observed rate C. So time passes fast enough so that light seems to move at C, and as you approach C time slows so that light still seems to travel at C.
So if you reach C time stops for you, because if time passed you would see the photon as moving at >C.
Of course that's only true if our current understanding of physics is correct, which is likely isn't because we haven't even scratched the surface of travelling at near-C velocities.
Basicly trying an alternate explanation to see if it's easier to grasp, you are 99% correct, however, picard. And the light clock is a very interesting concept, I'd never really thought of it that way before...
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Reek Havoc *XO*
Chief Marshal
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: June 23, 2005
Posts: 327
From: Philadelphia
| Posted: 2006-10-23 22:29
Quote:
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On 2006-10-18 21:17, Kanman *FC2* wrote:
Ok, I'm asking you to draw out the nerd from deep inside and help me figure out this beast:
A man(A) is on a spaceship. Another man(B) is outside the spaceship not moving. Man(A) stands in the back of the spaceship. The Spaceship is travelling in a straight line at the speed of light. Man(A) begins to walk forward in the spaceship, towards the front of the spaceship. Man(B) observes the spaceship going the speed of light, and he can see Man(A) thru the windows of the spaceship. If nothing can travel faster than light, then how fast does Man(B) observe Man(A) travelling as he walks forward in the spaceship travelling at the speed of light?
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman *FC2* on 2006-10-18 22:20 ]
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For all intesive purposes Man(a) is part of the ship which is travelling at the speed of light. Man(b) would never even see the ship or the man inside. TO prove this out try looking at people in a bus travelling the opposite direction from you in your vehicle. This is no where near the speed of light and you would not be able to see the people, or just one big blur. Furthermore, there are particles that do travel faster than the speed of light, they are called quasi(s). I just happen to google and find this article here: http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/9378.asp.
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