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Ramius
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Joined: January 12, 2002
Posts: 894
From: Ramius
|  Posted: 2006-12-05 13:19
If you were well educated in astrophysics, you would know that the Drake Equation is too difficult to actually compute, as we simply do not have the scientific knowledge to lock down many of those variables.
The "absence of evidence does not imply the evidence of absence."
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2006-12-05 13:31
well stated. this is true. what i meant was that I have fair idea (based on current astronomical knowledge of things like roughly how many stars have planets, etc. granted this number is still not very well defined as only small portions of the sky have been checked for planets, but still, i know most or Jupiters and gas giants (which under some conditions may support odd forms of life). It's not like i work for NASA or anything. I just have a reasonable understanding that is earned from hours and hours of discovery channel and Science channel watching, followed up by a few books written by professors at he tops of their fields.
and the point i was trying to make was that the equation was rather crude and seems "made up".
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman *FC2* on 2006-12-05 13:36 ]
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Ramius
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Joined: January 12, 2002
Posts: 894
From: Ramius
| Posted: 2006-12-05 13:40
Agreed, it is an extremely simple approach to an extremely complex problem.
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Capt.picard
Admiral
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 97
From: Peterborough, England
| Posted: 2006-12-05 14:25
I gotta say i didn't think that it would be as high as 1,000, i believe the number of planets that could support complex, inteligent life that are out there is much lower that what is suggested. And other things need to be considered, for example if the planet is in the highly "noisey" galactic core, where a radio signal could easily be "drowned" out by much more powerful radio sources.
on the subject of UFO's, i think it is highly unlikely that these are extra terrestrial/temoral/dimensional visitors as many people believe, much like my response to ghosts, i think they all have a much more down to earth scientific explanation eg. tricks of light. and like rami said, with religion taking more of a back seat in society people look to these ideas of UFO's to explain these things as opposed to miracles or divine intevention.
[ This Message was edited by: Capt.picard (ahhhh! so many bums!) on 2006-12-05 14:33 ]
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2006-12-05 15:04
I see ghosts in the MV all the time
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Hawk™
Cadet
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 570
From: Lagtopia, Lag system.
| Posted: 2006-12-05 20:13
Ramuis hurt my thinking sponge....
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Ship-Of-Fools
2nd Rear Admiral
Angry Mob
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 415
From: USA
| Posted: 2006-12-06 06:59
if u do Drakes
u have to consider physicist Enrico Fermi unansweredquestion. "Where is everybody?" he asked.
If the galaxy is teeming with sophisticated aliens, we should have heard from them by now.
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2006-12-06 10:20
There might actually be ghost, zombies, and aliens out there. But none have been proven by scientific studdies yet. So although we cant say they dont exist, we cant say they exist either. now back to the discussion over aliens, aliens will never be disprooved people will always be able to say that there may be inteligent life out there because how can you search for it, there will always be other places to search. But us being in direct contact with inteligent lifeforms? I dbout it in my opinion.
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Capt.picard
Admiral
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 97
From: Peterborough, England
| Posted: 2006-12-06 10:23
Not if they don't want us to hear them, it may sound odd, but it would make sense... for example, they may view us as too unsophisticated and believe it would be for our own good for us not to know about alien life, after all we still have yet to fully get over problems of racism and the like. If aliens where to reveal them selves in some way can you imagine the mass histeria it would cause, there would be an almost instantainous breakdown of the most basic social services.
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Ramius
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Joined: January 12, 2002
Posts: 894
From: Ramius
| Posted: 2006-12-06 10:25
Not necessarily. First the Drake equation was a response to the Fermi Paradox, not the other way around.
You have to remember a few things. The galaxy is pretty big: 95,000 ly across. That means a civilization would have to be dumping powerful radio transmissions omnidirectionally for thousands of years before we would read it, if we could. We've only been actively listening for artificial transmissions for 40 years or so... a drop in the bucket. And IF an alien civilization recorded our messages, the time to recieve a message from them would be doubled from reception/transmission.
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Light-of-Aurora
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 01, 2003
Posts: 602
From: NJ, USA
| Posted: 2006-12-06 19:47
I don't think anyone can make a serious argument for the existence of ghosts, or at least the ghosts I'm thinking of.
But the existence of alien life seems quite probable...
And Ramius sounds so damn knowledgable. 
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Hawk™
Cadet
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 570
From: Lagtopia, Lag system.
| Posted: 2006-12-06 21:09
I believe in ghosts. I have this VHS tape of a marathon of paranormal investigations I recorded from TV. The first half is a bunch of BS, you know, they give a couple of teenage girls cameras and tell em to go look through a building. They run around screaming "OMG WHAT WAS THAT NOISE!?" Totally facticious. On the second half of the tape there is this guy, Chris something, and he instead of calling himself a phycic or whatever, he says he's a medium. First show he and some supernatural experts, no not a bunch of crackpot bums that going around saying they see dead people, people are proffesors at credited colleges go to Alcatraz Island. Now don't get me wrong, it wasnt supposed to be a bunch of ghosts running around on camera. I would have to watch the tape again to remember details, but they held sayonce (is this how you spell it?) and the Chris guy gets possesed and if I remember correctly, I am starting to wonder if I am, It was the spirit of the BirdMan of Alcatraz. Second episode is really freaky . I just tried to look up some of the information on the deaths in the place that the show gave out but no luck. Supposedly, 3 people have died at the ThunderBird Lodge.Btw, this is like in the 1920s when the original owner had it built. First was supposed to be the murder of a woman, she was allegedly drugged and thrown into the lake. Second was a chef that was brutaly mauled by a bear. Third was a construction worker during the building of an indoor pool. The millionaire that owned the place was VERY supersticious. So much that he ceiled off the room with the pool and left it there. I know what your thinkin, there actors and they were just acting. No Way. When the Chris guy goes to the spot where the bear killed the cook, he FREAKS. He's like, "OMG Its soooo horrible! Theres a leg over here and an arm over there" and blah blah blah. Then, on the way out of the place he falls like Mike Tyson just gave em an upercut and starts convulging and stuff... freaky... and starts talking in a different voice and givin this creepy laugh. I know what your thinkin, there actors and they were just acting. No Way. If this guy was acting, he deserves an Oscar. As you can see I dont have many details and I am gonna look around to see if I can find the show online. Also, some of the episodes of GhostHunters I have seen further make me believe. Like cables coiled around a bell on the wall being picked up and dropped on the floor on camera with no one around. Gimme your scientific explanation for that. When they stayed at the Stanley Hotel in Colorado, (the hotel that inspired The Shining), a table jumping 2 feet in the air and slamming down. Wheres your science for that. A piece off a thick glass breaking off with no one touching it. A door that normaly is very hard to latch open and shut, AND LATCH, ON CAMERA, with no one there. Wheres your science for that. - Hawk
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Tbone
Grand Admiral
Joined: July 21, 2001
Posts: 1756
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2006-12-06 21:36
Enter key is your friend.
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Hawk™
Cadet
Joined: July 22, 2003
Posts: 570
From: Lagtopia, Lag system.
| Posted: 2006-12-07 20:48
One of the theories on ghosts is the more people that have died in a place, the more supposed spirits would be there. Another theory is, just because someone dies doesn't mean they become a spirit. Some of the experts believe people become spirits from suffering a horrible death, but, just because someone dies a horrible death doesn't mean they will become a spirit.
My personal belief is Normandy Beach would be haunted as hell, and because Europe is some much older than North America, that would mean there is a higher chance of spirits being in Europe. Think about it, concentration camps and things of that sort.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that there definately are spirits without a doubt, but I think there are spirits. Another theory is that not all spirits are intelligent and interact with people. Supposedly some spirits go around doing the same thing over and over without ever noticing people or there surroundings.
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2006-12-08 01:03
Well In north america you had all the killing off of natives on the land, making room for settlers. Wouldnt that count as horrible death too? Infact the numbers that have died in the process wiped out by deseases and just getting killed would likely surpass any large war. So I dont really quite agree with that comparison.
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