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kluth bombers |
Starfist
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 22, 2003
Posts: 574
|  Posted: 2006-12-23 15:29
ihave an idea to help balance bombing out a bit:
as it is now kluth can bomb any planet with impunity,
IE: drop bombs while ecmed then cloak planet may get off a couple salvos of missles but as soon as a kluth cloaks missles detonate. icc planets they can follow bombs in and not worry about the PD as the beams barely do any damage, ugto just turn from planet at 500 PD cant even kill enough bombs to stop the attack,
my idea is:
why not make it so kluth bombers cant cloak until the bombs have detonated, this way they would have to rely on the ships ecm. or make it when they cloak their ecm goes off, not be able to run ecm while cloaked
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2006-12-23 21:32
This sounds like it would be a great idea, to anyone who hasnt played as K'luth.
Bombing with the cloak/ECM takes abit more skill then what everyone seems to realise. If you let out bombs then cloak, the enemy will still know your there (Unless you want the bombs to be picked off by the planet). If you dont cloak, your still visible to the enemy and it's K'luth Hunting season in the MV.
In next version, bombing wont be so bad, and K'luth wont have it easy bombing anyways. It's good as it is.
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2006-12-24 01:09
I've had this thrown at me so may times, I'm going to pass the arguement on t you...
The cloak is factored into the Kluth's armour balance. Sure they can cloak and shield the bombs in but only on ICC planets. 2 Kluth Def3s will almost kill a clavate and not sure about UGTO Def3.
In addition, as layouts will most likely change. Clavates mount less ECM and carry less bombs then their counterparts. Having bombed with all factions, UGTO and get the furthest is with it's Bombers without being detected. Planets fire on Clavates before a bomber cruiser. While ICC bombers generally get detected first but can breech the further that Kluth or UGTO taking less damage.
From my experience anyways...
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Smartin
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 1107
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2006-12-24 05:43
If kluth bombers are forced to use bio's instead of using nuets next patch it will be a whole new ball game. Less bombs = you forced to follow bombs in even closer.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-12-24 06:24
Might be nice to disable cloak at a certain proximity to the planet (say 500 gu).
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Inanimate Carbon Rod
Cadet
Joined: February 17, 2006
Posts: 22
| Posted: 2006-12-24 09:15
Quote:
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On 2006-12-24 01:09, Seamus Rooke wrote:
The cloak is factored into the Kluth's armour balance
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Exactly. Bad Idea to change it. Better to hold any of these thoughts until the clav gets tested against the defenses of 484 anyway.
* 500gu from planet to disable cloak? No. You get close to the planet anyway (which in most cases you have to with bombs) and the planet can attack you... No point in having a weak defensive ship bombing if players will just jump in and instantly kill you because they cant be cloaked. Just seems wrong.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-12-24 12:12
Quote:
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On 2006-12-24 09:15, Inanimate Carbon Rod wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-12-24 01:09, Seamus Rooke wrote:
The cloak is factored into the Kluth's armour balance
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Exactly. Bad Idea to change it. Better to hold any of these thoughts until the clav gets tested against the defenses of 484 anyway.
* 500gu from planet to disable cloak? No. You get close to the planet anyway (which in most cases you have to with bombs) and the planet can attack you... No point in having a weak defensive ship bombing if players will just jump in and instantly kill you because they cant be cloaked. Just seems wrong.
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500 gu also fixes the instant decloak, drop, and reclock thing.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2006-12-24 12:26
In the next version Clavates will only have level 5 armor, and two level 5 E-Warfare slots, so that is a maximum of 2 ECM. Along with the reduction in actual bomb damage and the inability to use MiiRV's or Neutrons, the K'luth bombing will be effectively fixed.
They can still use the same bomb/cloak tactic, but not so effectively.
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2006-12-24 15:27
Quote:
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On 2006-12-24 12:12, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
500 gu also fixes the instant decloak, drop, and reclock thing.
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What is this "instant decloak" thing of which you speak? Defences are firing long before Kluth players can drop, fire, you do anything. During the decloak phase all a Kluth player can do is drive. By forcing a 500gu forced decloak range establishes nothing more than your personal bias. Will you make the UGTO lose half there armour or the ICC lose their shields within 500gu of a planet as well?
As DrafElf states, in the next patch, the Kluth will be forced to use bio bombs only again. This unto itself will cause drastic changes in the Kluth bombing technique, furthermore the reduced EW slots will hinder Kluth pilots that are used to current bombing. When the Kluth revert back to Bios they will have less bombs to try to bypass planet defence not to mention the max range and longer reload times.
Perhaps the real focus should be how planets react to and detect threats, I mean this current version has many more players gaining massive amounts of prestige off the woeful performance of Kluth and to an extent UGTO planetary defences.
[ This Message was edited by: Seamus Rooke on 2006-12-24 15:29 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-12-24 21:55
Quote:
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On 2006-12-24 15:27, Seamus Rooke wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-12-24 12:12, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
500 gu also fixes the instant decloak, drop, and reclock thing.
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What is this "instant decloak" thing of which you speak? Defences are firing long before Kluth players can drop, fire, you do anything. During the decloak phase all a Kluth player can do is drive. By forcing a 500gu forced decloak range establishes nothing more than your personal bias. Will you make the UGTO lose half there armour or the ICC lose their shields within 500gu of a planet as well?
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You forget K'luth get instant decloak in 1.484. Meaning they can walts up to planets, un-detected, and mass-drop infantry, and then recloak. A 500gu decloak range around enemy planets, will force bombers to be seen for perhaps some of their final bombing run (taking some damage), and will also stop the "instant-drop" thing (which would be a major flaw).
Quote:
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As DrafElf states, in the next patch, the Kluth will be forced to use bio bombs only again. This unto itself will cause drastic changes in the Kluth bombing technique, furthermore the reduced EW slots will hinder Kluth pilots that are used to current bombing. When the Kluth revert back to Bios they will have less bombs to try to bypass planet defence not to mention the max range and longer reload times.
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Bio bombs are marginaly worse than Neutron bombs.
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Perhaps the real focus should be how planets react to and detect threats, I mean this current version has many more players gaining massive amounts of prestige off the woeful performance of Kluth and to an extent UGTO planetary defences.
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Indeed, UGTO and K'luth defences aren't that great unless you stay in range of the beams (and you need to be very, very close in the case of UGTO). Hence, a 500 gu decloak/force +sig range, will stop the full ECM bombing/Instant dropping kind of thing, which will atribute to harder bombing.
As I am no longer a developer, I can't really say "THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!11". So I can just put it out there. If Drafell or the others wish to use it, so be it.
- Jack
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Maskerade
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 21, 2002
Posts: 638
From: Canada
| Posted: 2006-12-25 00:01
Well I'll apologize to the fact that I was unaware to teh 484 instant decloak.
Why not just re-institute power drain via cloak when in ECM fields?
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- Maskerade
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2006-12-26 17:00
That works too, perhaps make it worse when you get closer to the source (and make plantairy ECCM drain twice as more as a ship-based ECCM).
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