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I'm making a prediction that ICC planets will be overpowered |
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Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
|  Posted: 2007-03-31 16:49
Yeah. It'd be freaking awesome if we had huge battles over single planets, and not the entire MV in a night.
I mean, it'd be A LOT easier to find target and/or battles. If one planet is being assaulted all day, you know where the action's going to be. Not, "I was at Earth ten minutes ago, they were attacking, I have no idea where we are now".
It also means something. I mean, if your fleet captures a planet in 1.484, it should mean a lot. Co-ordination, teamwork, etc - all go into capturing that planet.
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Peter Wiggin
Midshipman
Joined: November 10, 2005
Posts: 636
| Posted: 2007-04-13 22:07
Bringing this back up...
Why do ICC have the bomber dread? 4 bomb slots are enough, but still, ICC are defensive.. Will the dread get nerfed? will they just have a bomber cruiser/dessy? Just hate to see ICC a highly offensive faction in 484 like they are now.
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2007-04-14 10:37
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On 2007-03-25 21:41, MrSparkle wrote:
I'm saying right here on 3/24/2007 that ICC planets will be overpowered in defensiveness if they keep both their planetary shields AND keep their pulse beam defense bases. |
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Remember, Bio Bombs and Neutrons are still here too. Shields this version arent actualy strong, their pretty weak. Increasing them will make them as they should be, and decreasing bombs will make it an even playing field there..
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Here's the thing: Even in the current version ICC planets are a tough nut to crack without neuts. In 484 with weaker bombs they will be all but impossible compared to UGTO and Kluth planets. |
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Impossible? Nah. $witch, HavoX, and Me took down an ICC planet in Beta (With the said fix to the power of bombs and what not). It also took us a rather long time to do it, and if there had been enemy, we'd have had to fight hard for the planet. But it is possible to mirv an ICC planet no matter what the Defence is.
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ICC got planetary shields long ago because all 3 factions had the same type lasers for their defense bases. The shield gave ICC more defense than usual, and it worked great back then. Now they have those pulse beam defenses that do such a good job that oftentimes not enough bombs even make it through to take the shield completely down. |
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Again, Mirvs arent the only way to take a shield down. And if your a pretty decent bomber, and ready to get beat on, you can land 98% of the bombs every time.
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I propose that ICC lose pulse beam defense bases if they aren't already gonna lose them, or all 3 factions get their own type of shield. Having both just for ICC is overkill, and I don't know whose idea it was to give them both to begin with. So what that pulse beams don't damage nearby ships like UGTO and Kluth? The primary role of a defense base has always been to defend vs bombs. |
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Overkill isnt the word I'd use. How about, "More of a challenge.". Because if you have a fleet, and a few bombers who can work together, you can take an ICC planet as it would be for any other faction's planet. (And yes, you'd need a fleet and teamwork for those too.)
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I am predicting right here right now that ICC will have too easy a time capturing and defending their planets if nothing is done about this. Not to mention the nightmare caused by ICC neutroning a Kluth planet and building a shield or 2, giving them both heavy offensive bases and a shield for protection. I shudder at the thought since ICC planets will 100% require that bombers fly on top of their bombs and skim the planet to ensure the bombs reach the shield. You won't be able to do that with Kluth defense bases and thus the planet will be virtually uncappable. We won't see this combo often but we will see it. |
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I'm well aware that ICC will likley be the best at defending planets. Because that's their own little strong point in Darkspace. It isnt going to be like the Deathstars and ECM Forts from previous versions. We'll be able to see the enemy, and fight them at their planet. (It isnt hard to dodge missles..). For a K'luth+ICC Combo, learn what Fighter Bombing is, K'luth have shotty PD. It may not do a good job against a shield-less planet, but if you do it right, you can take the shields down and have a few bombers ready to jump in a lay down the hurt on the planet.
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Too much, and it will cause a big imbalance. Mark my words: ICC will be the absolute uncontested king of capturing/defending planets and the MV will fall rather quickly into their hands. I don't even need to beta test it to foresee that future. Doesn't matter if a planet can't cause damage to enemy ships if it can't be captured. Replace the pulse beams with standard lasers and don't increase the strength of shields.
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Your line there about not testing, kinda defeats your whole argument. I beta tested when they weakend the bombs and the radius of damage (Unsure if the Shield's had been fixed), and I already have several strategies on how to take down an ICC planet. That Taf cluster wasnt easy to take, but we where still able to work together to do it.
Also notice, I keep talking about teamwork and such. You seem to think of bombing as a solo act. Hahah.. If you try to take a planet by yourself next version, you should be hit by Sirius 1.Your going to need a fleet and multiple bombers to take a built planet, unless you plan on dieing a lot. As people said earlier here, taking a planet is supposed to be a battle, not a 'wam-bam and run' deal. It's supposed to take more then two minutes to bomb and capture it.
[ This Message was edited by: Crim on 2007-04-14 10:38 ]
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Peter Wiggin
Midshipman
Joined: November 10, 2005
Posts: 636
| Posted: 2007-04-14 11:46
You say it should be a team effort, but even with the lower bomb radius the ICC still have an offensive advantage with their bomber dread. ICC could probably take a ugto/luth planet with say.. 2 dreads and a supply. To take an ICC planet, UGTO will probably need an aggy/cd and 2 bomber cruisers or more, plus the sup.
While I understand ICC are a defensive faction and it should be harder to take their planets, why should they have an advantage at taking enemy planets? I guess we will have to wait til testing to see what we really need to change around 
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2007-04-14 12:16
You need to read the Beta Forums abit more.
Bomber Dread is being GREATLY nerfed compared to what it is now. Even if it wasnt changed, UGTO and K'luth defence bases HURT ships next version. They may be able to take it, but they'd take it at a rather big cost..
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Peter Wiggin
Midshipman
Joined: November 10, 2005
Posts: 636
| Posted: 2007-04-14 12:22
I do read the beta forums. I missed out between like june of last year and january of this year though.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2007-04-14 13:19
I would like to make one more contribution to this ICC overpowered thing. I would LOVE a seige of a planet to last all day, an epic battle like it should be. However, Keep in mind that the ICC ships have PULSE SHIELD. If just 3 ICC are online and at that planet, we cannot succeed in attacking the planet. It is not difficult to ram bomb clusters and so if it takes 5-6 bomb clouds to hit a planet enough to make it hurt, just 1-2 ICC ships could block bombing indefinately from safely within thier planet defs. They just ram a cloud and pulse shield the next one. Right there. 1 ship, 2 clouds gone in 30 seconds.
It is Fair and very smart to design different factions to have different advantages, and having ICC be the 'defensive faction' is a reasonable idea. But for ALL the ICC get in terms of defending their planets, can you say the the Kluth get an equal level of offensive power (since the kluth are pure offense)? And can you say that UGTO get a fair mixture of offensive and defensive powers to make it on equal footing with the other two? I am just thinking that the ICC ARE a defensive faction, but are receiving too many powers of defense.
The ICC get a blast wave that destroys incoming bombs. maybe the kluth should get a blast wave that severely damages shields and armor or something.
Write a list of each faction's powers. Are they lists of equal length? Is there a counter-power to each power listed?
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2007-04-14 13:22
You havent seem to gotten the point of having a fleet there to go in and combat the enemy?
Yeah?
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doda *EP5 no longer exception...*
Grand Admiral
Joined: December 11, 2005
Posts: 1012
From: happy land
| Posted: 2007-04-14 13:24
Actually I kind of like that idea. Give luth a blast wave that destoys near by armour, while ugto get a flux waves that destoys near by hull, and icc get a wave that destoys near by projectiles. Ofcourse the damage would need tweaking, but it still might work.
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2007-04-14 13:25
Ok. So it take 5-6 bomber cruisers, 2-4 supply ships, 4-7 combat ships. So we could need as many as 11-17 players online to successfully fight off 3 ICC and capture their planet.
That is just not right.
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2007-04-14 13:25
K'luth get Cloak and Auto Repair, that's rather good there..
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2007-04-14 13:27
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On 2007-04-14 13:25, Kanman *FC2* wrote:
Ok. So it take 5-6 bomber cruisers, 2-4 supply ships, 4-7 combat ships. So we could need as many as 11-17 players online to successfully fight off 3 ICC and capture their planet.
That is just not right.
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You wouldnt need that many to take on three. You realy dont get it I geuss.
If you have a decent combat forece (3-4 combat, a supply or two) and you can get those three to get away from the planet. Then you can bomb..
It's not like ICC ship are some unbeatable combat force.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2007-04-14 16:53
In 1.480 MV, yeah, that pulse shield was used that way.
Effectively.
And rightfully so. ICC doesn't get offensive gadgets like UGTO has. Their main theme is defense, so yes they are pefectly entitled to stop you from bombing that way.
The solution? Well the same solution as it was three versions ago. Bring enough combat with you to either distract them or destroy them.
If you and nother bomber go with a suppy alone and two combats stop you, whats the difference if two combats from Kluth, or UGTO did the same?
Sorry, but what ICC can do is only slightly better than other factions. The Pulse shield itself has a 250gu range, and as well, takes time to recharge. Three bombers, two supplies, and three combat ships (destroyers or cruisers) could and should be able to fend off a small defense like that and take a planet.
1.484 will bring back strategy into planet capturing. Too long have people been given easy ways to do it and now it gets tougher for once. You'll actually have to THINK before you go bombing. You will have to have the proper loadouts and the proper ships with you, and be able to place yourselves where needed.
Scanners again will be invaluable, because there will be no more of this click on the planet and smash B button nonsense. Youll have to group your bombs accordingly. Youll have to have a scanner to see the planets structures from a distances and plan out which specific structures to take down (Generators, colony base, domes, farms), and have to set up a run in the old fashioned way of cloud bombing.
Ladies and gentlemen unless you get out of the 1.483 mode of thinking .484 is going to be very hard for you to adjust to indeed.
-Ent
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2007-04-15 13:24
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On 2007-04-14 16:53, Enterprise wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen unless you get out of the 1.483 mode of thinking .484 is going to be very hard for you to adjust to indeed.
-Ent
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Guaranteed somebody will reply to this as "you're going to force people to leave darkspace."
and to that I say: Good. Let all the idiots/complainers/people who can't think leave.
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Borgie
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: August 15, 2005
Posts: 2256
From: close by
| Posted: 2007-04-25 14:00
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On 2007-04-13 22:07, Peter Wiggin wrote:
Bringing this back up...
Why do ICC have the bomber dread? 4 bomb slots are enough, but still, ICC are defensive.. Will the dread get nerfed? will they just have a bomber cruiser/dessy? Just hate to see ICC a highly offensive faction in 484 like they are now.
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best defence is a good offence
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