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Reflective Armor and you. |
Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
|  Posted: 2008-10-14 08:53
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On 2008-10-14 04:18, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Now all of you (most), stop jumping on the bandwaggon. Just because someone cries fowl, doesn't mean it is. And to those of you making up random numbers, check BEFORE you do. It only makes your future posts seem lest credible.
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Indeed? This coming from the one who informed us that Reflectives are NOT self-repairing. "less credible", is it?
But cuddles to u for at least testing out the SCOUT, now try the AD and Mandi.
I'll comment no further as i'm still in the middle of testing.
[ This Message was edited by: BeamMeAllUWant(AllReflectives) on 2008-10-14 09:06 ]
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-14 09:12
Quote:
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On 2008-10-14 08:53, BeamMeAllUWant(AllReflectives) wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-10-14 04:18, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Now all of you (most), stop jumping on the bandwaggon. Just because someone cries fowl, doesn't mean it is. And to those of you making up random numbers, check BEFORE you do. It only makes your future posts seem lest credible.
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Indeed? This coming from the one who informed us that Reflectives are NOT self-repairing. One could ask are ur other posts "Credible" as well?
But cuddles to u for at least testing out the SCOUT, now try the AD and Mandi.
I'll comment no further as i'm still in the middle of testing.
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I appologise for that - my OpenOffice isn't/wasn't working, and I was going off of the values given in that (which seems, were way, way off/old). I'm not going by that anymore, and doing my own calculations in the raw files.
I would of applied what I said to me, but I thought I 'was' checking via the office file. Already apologise for that, but hey - sorry for not knowing my office was broken!
Regardless of everything, the Mandi should turn quicker than the AD (but not a huge amount).
If the EAD turns at 6, the AD should turn at 7, and the Mandi at 8. The difference gets smaller as the ships get bigger. We do everything by mass, and organic armour is lighter than shields, and shields are lighter than normal armour - so UGTO will always be the slowest, and Kluth the fastest.
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2008-10-14 12:42
Wait a second, don't make this personal.
It's ok to make mistakes as long as you're willing to accept responsibility for them without excuses, exceptions or conditions.
On topic
I do think some seemingly subtle & minor changes to the game system (armor, shields, etc) may have much more significant impacts on game balance than was anticipated. However, the key word is "MAY". "May" doesn't mean there is a problem, just that we should review it and try to quantify/empirically analyze it.
Just general "this stinks" comments don't really help.
However, if you and a buddy want to find a quiet corner and test the systems in question in a highly controlled approach, that's the kind of thing that contributes to the conversation. And a suggestion, avoid definitive conclusions. Post the facts and let us judge.
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Drafell
Grand Admiral
Mythica
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 2449
From: United Kingdom
| Posted: 2008-10-14 13:03
Shields add no mass, only Armor does.
The mass of a ship is directly linked to it's ability to accelerate and decelerate, as well as turning speed.
ICC ships should be the most responsive due to the lower overall mass. At least half of their protection is provided by shields, which mass nothing.
K'Luth ships should be the fastest due to AME tech and have a medium helm response as their total armors masses less than that of the UGTO.
UGTO are the least responsive of all the factions. Due to the high mass values they can feel sluggish compared to the other three factions.
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It's gone now, no longer here...Yet still I see, and still I fear.rnrn
rnrn
DarkSpace Developer - Retired
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2008-10-14 16:05
ok , this was a totally clean duel. 1 vs 1 to death. Ugto support station against Kluth station Nest.
I will post some big screenies here.I want you to see the begining , middle, end of the fight.
Hope those screenies can give some idea to Developer team about what we were talking since begining of this topic.
[ This Message was edited by: Pakhos on 2008-10-14 16:12 ]
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[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-14 16:37
You were doing better up until you lost energy.
You need to pilot that station better - it has nothing to do with imbalance.
Manage your energy.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-14 16:41 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2008-10-14 16:49
started 37 -----> out of power 44.
7mins of difference. i dont know how can u manage to use energy better if there is only 2 thing u can fire...
Oh also he was out of energy too. But what dont you get is he can drop 50 fighters on my head and not shot anything.
Hope this could explain better ....
ah also could u see the difference between 0 and 93% at the end!
means something to you?
[ This Message was edited by: Pakhos on 2008-10-14 16:53 ]
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-14 20:01
pak, i might have to agree with jack on this one, ur were fighting SuppStation, he's got 3 reloads, and 10 fighter slots. he's alot less energy intensive than u are.
however with that said, pehaps we should ask Saturn what type of armor he was using. I do see abit of a problem that ur couldnt hull him first. Nest is the quivilent of a Battle station. with ur 9 core weapons and something like 8 or 9 assult ruptors, ur should been able to hull him rather quickly.
I think geting Saturn info on this would be best, if possible.
Either way, I'm still testing the EAD, i dont want to make any conclusive statments till i have 1or 2 more days with it. Thus far, i have not met a combat type dread that did not run from me after first exchange of fire.
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Smartin
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 1107
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2008-10-14 20:17
You are kluth fighting UGTO head to head. Probably with out cloaking. You aren't suppose to win. You have weaker armor. Kluth is more hit and run, and the sations play more a support role when there are people there to support you. You can't go head to head with ugto and expect to win.
Just different tactics for each faction, and K'luth isn't the one on one-head to head faction.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2008-10-14 20:32
guys , ok ok, i do understand the faction facts.
He used reflective out and standart inside.
Before we started to duel , said sat , u are gonna win this. It was sure.
But problem is the end. 93% hull? this kind of ships must give more challenge to each other. Means : at lest when i died he should had 30-40% hull, dont u think?
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-15 07:17
You were winning, until you ran out of power. Group your weapons (and I don't just mean into different types).
I'll do this step by step, so you can see it easier.
He starts taking damage, you're behind:
http://xs232.xs.to/xs232/08422/2104.jpg
You've hulled him WAY below you, but you've been heavy on the weapons, and it's cost you a lot of energy:
http://xs232.xs.to/xs232/08422/3943.jpg
You've bottomed out, and have no energy. You cannot fire your weapons, he has enough time to repair some of the damage:
http://xs232.xs.to/xs232/08422/4122.jpg
Outcome, one dead station:
http://xs232.xs.to/xs232/08422/5960.jpg
Why didn't you use the tractor to keep him at range? - his beams do less damage than yours at distance.
Why not use fighters? I can't see any in that picture - he had built up a stack of them - a portion of damage he doesn't need energy to maintain - you have the same option to do so, use it.
I'm not trying to be mean here, just perhaps Saturn is a better pilot of a station - I know Drafell would kick my behind in a Destroyer - that doesn't mean it's overpowered.
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-15 07:26 ]
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
| Posted: 2008-10-15 07:43
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On 2008-10-15 07:17, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Why didn't you use the tractor to keep him at range? - his beams do less damage than yours at distance.
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Tractor beams were reconfigured to only work with Platforms.
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captain of the ICC Assault Cruiser C.S.S. Sledgehammer
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-15 08:25
Quote:
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On 2008-10-15 07:43, leonide *FM*{FIX BUILDING} wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-10-15 07:17, BackSlash *Jack* wrote:
Why didn't you use the tractor to keep him at range? - his beams do less damage than yours at distance.
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Tractor beams were reconfigured to only work with Platforms.
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Gah, keep needed to remind myself about that. Wish they just worked ala pre 1.5 on ships (I'll actually see what I can do in regards to this).
Previous point(s) still stand though)
[ This Message was edited by: BackSlash *Jack* on 2008-10-15 08:38 ]
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2008-10-15 08:53
Quote:
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On 2008-10-14 20:17, Smartin wrote:
You are kluth fighting UGTO head to head. Probably with out cloaking. You aren't suppose to win. You have weaker armor. Kluth is more hit and run, and the sations play more a support role when there are people there to support you. You can't go head to head with ugto and expect to win.
Just different tactics for each faction, and K'luth isn't the one on one-head to head faction.
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This was a STATION duel, cloaking at that close range and slow speeds just make ur even more of a siting duck. + ur weapons wont fire.
And Pak was in a Nest, look at the screenines, he's got 9 coreweapons, and 8 assult ruptors, he's a OFFENCE station like a bs. While sat was in a ss, more of his fire power are in fighters, with only 2 Qst and about 4-5 HCL. There is nothing in the kluth Fleet with more raw firepower than the Nest, which indirectly means that it got the most firepower in Darkspace, period.
Pak has Overwhelming fire power advantage.
@Jack, tractor dont work on players as they were determined by staff to be too overpowered.
the only advantage i see for Sat is hes defensive. He has 3 reloads to Pak's 2. and stronger armor compared to organics. If he could survive Pak's onslaught he could outlast him, once pak has overextend his energy.
Which was inevtiable, do to the nature of all assult vessels, energy shortage.
the problem I think pak is raising here is that, even with energy shortage problem, He should have been able to hull Sat to 50% or below. The facts as we can see in the screenie is that Sat never droped below 80%.
The 50 fighters Sat's ss carries should have helped abit, since they could still attack AFTER both stations are too low on energy to fire.
but pak had 25 fighters too, did u simple chose not to use them to save energy?
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2008-10-15 14:30
well i had to admit.
Fighters taking too much energy and long time to recharge.Because of that Sat went silent for a min or something.But he was turning and turning to avoid hull damage on weak armor side.I was doing the same thing tho. But if u see the picture i am all red and he is all green. Even i thought , if i use my beams to pd against fighters would make me out of energy before those 7 mins and i would have nothing to fire on him.
Even i thought go under him , so i could avoid fighters and force fighters to hit sat too. But i really dont have any idea how game works on this. Instead of going under him i went up.
Also please there is no need to explain about power usage. I have using station since long time ago. Normally i could make it run out of energy less than 2 mins, but notice, i last 7 min than run out of energy.
But if there is someone can prove Nest can win against SS in a close fight i will pay his 3 months DS sub! (oh against sat).Also i wont talk about this topic anymore.
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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