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Destroyer & Frigate Balance |
Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
|  Posted: 2008-10-24 21:57
Isn't more ammunition for ICC weapons the comment we've consistently been hearing for the last three months from Beta whenever we're discussing one-on-one combat and ship balance?
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2008-10-28 01:10
Had another Dessie Duel earlier tonight, this time between my Combat Dessie and Daylight's Claw.
Wound up being a draw. I got him down to 37% hull at one point, but only because I was able to punch through his forward armor. After that he started keeping the other sides turned towards me, and I ran out of Railgun ammo before I could've worn down the rest of his armor.
On the other hand, he was unable to effectively break through my Active Shields. I only took minor armor damage and never took hull damage. Didn't seem to have much trouble hitting him with my Railguns, and cruising at 17 gu/sec I also never had energy problems.
By the time we broke off, his hull and armor had almost completely regenerated, as had my shields. I think this particular fight was a little skewed, however, as the Claw doesn't seem geared towards fighting Destroyers, what with its heavy torpedo armament. If it had been packing Psi Cannons or Plasma Cannons instead I'd have had a much harder time of it.
The +15 ammo on Railguns helps, but it is still very challenging to kill a ship of equal size with a skilled pilot before you run out. It would certainly be impossible for even a very skilled pilot to take out two or more ships of equal size, where a UGTO or K'luth player might have a chance if they were very good.
[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2008-10-28 01:11 ]
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Walrus of Apathy
Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: August 07, 2005
Posts: 466
From: Dorans Basement
| Posted: 2008-10-28 19:42
Back to the AHR problem...
i was Fighting Zerocool in a ugto assualt corvette with him in a ultimate worker and i had the same problem. every time i would hit him with an alpha(with the torpedo armaments) his armor would go down 5-6%, but he would just break off and be back 4 second later with full armor again.
even in the scout i should have able to do more damage to the armor.
[ This Message was edited by: BeastWibbler on 2008-10-28 19:43 ]
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2008-10-28 20:31
Thats not an AHR thing, thats you trying to break something that has two reloads with a ship that is far too small & ill equipped for the task.
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Tiffy Rando
Grand Admiral
Joined: January 19, 2003
Posts: 354
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2008-10-29 00:42
I just wanted to add some feedback of my own.
I noticed in fights where I was flying luth dessies, that the short range missiles have a VERY hard time hitting anything smaller than a cruiser, which afaik is what they were intended for...
Also in one encounter I fired SEVERAL point blank volleys into a bomber destroyer from a HIVE and it managed to survive and jump away with half shields half armor and 60% hull if I recall...
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2008-10-29 08:27
Missiles overall have utterly horrible accuracy. Fly near an enemy planet and you can dodge everything it throws at you if you just fly perpendicular to the missiles attacking. This is due to the slight lag between you and the server: the server controls the missiles and they're aiming for where they think you are, but you're actually a little ways ahead of that so they don't actually hit you.
Unfortunately, the easiest way to fix this is to make the missiles aim for where you will be instead of where you are, which would take up a massive amount of computing power.
And yes, it does seem sometimes that Destroyers are too durable... but then, I've been testing ICC Destroyers this whole time and they ARE going to be more durable than their counterparts.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2008-10-29 08:44
Quote:
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On 2008-10-29 08:27, Jim Starluck wrote:
Unfortunately, the easiest way to fix this is to make the missiles aim for where you will be instead of where you are, which would take up a massive amount of computing power.
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or just take where you are and your current velocity and multiply it by 1.2. might work just as well.
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Kaoschan
Fleet Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: October 11, 2008
Posts: 133
From: Germany
| Posted: 2008-10-29 10:25
Quote:
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On 2008-10-29 08:44, His Wibbling Excellency, Duke Fattierob wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-10-29 08:27, Jim Starluck wrote:
Unfortunately, the easiest way to fix this is to make the missiles aim for where you will be instead of where you are, which would take up a massive amount of computing power.
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or just take where you are and your current velocity and multiply it by 1.2. might work just as well.
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rather then speeding them up, increase their tunrrate. I think it's not their speedfactor, but the lack of maneuverability to hit ships. Most of the missles fly in circels around ships, if they miss the first time, and this cricle must become smaller for them to hit the ship.
Increaseing theit speed will increase the circle raidus, and thou make missles more useless.
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BackSlash
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 23, 2003
Posts: 11183
From: Bristol, England
| Posted: 2008-10-29 10:37
Uh, could just make the missiles aim for +y from the model (infront of it)...
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2008-10-29 10:56
I've discussed a number of methods to fix missiles with Drafell (who's in charge of ship balance), and most of them wouldn't work quite so well. Increasing the missile turn rate doesn't help so much if they're still aiming for the wrong point in space.
And unless we want missiles to suddenly become the ultimate weapons in the game we can't make them TOO accurate, given how many get thrown around and how high their ranges are. Planets would become insanely deadly to anything smaller than a Station if they could hit with 100% accuracy.
[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2008-10-29 10:57 ]
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Kaoschan
Fleet Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: October 11, 2008
Posts: 133
From: Germany
| Posted: 2008-10-29 11:15
Quote:
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On 2008-10-29 10:56, Jim Starluck wrote:
I've discussed a number of methods to fix missiles with Drafell (who's in charge of ship balance), and most of them wouldn't work quite so well. Increasing the missile turn rate doesn't help so much if they're still aiming for the wrong point in space.
And unless we want missiles to suddenly become the ultimate weapons in the game we can't make them TOO accurate, given how many get thrown around and how high their ranges are. Planets would become insanely deadly to anything smaller than a Station if they could hit with 100% accuracy.
[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2008-10-29 10:57 ]
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this may be true. but right now they are rather useless. at leass a little tweak should be done.
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K'luth Hunter - Recon ~Ping~ Scout - ECCM for the Team, to beat the K'luth!
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2008-10-29 11:29
I've also gotten the distinct impression that Draf is sick of me pestering him about ways to fix missiles, so you guys can bug him about it now. I've done my part. 
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Huffywuffy, Mr. Builder
Fleet Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: August 20, 2003
Posts: 76
| Posted: 2008-10-29 12:03
It's not about transforming missiles into a uber weapon, it's just to increase their efficiency. Right now ships equipped with a large amount of missiles (when compared to other offensive weapons on the same ship) aren't a viable choice against any ship smaller than a Station.
I agree on the point that missiles shouldn't get a 100% hit ratio, but they should at least pose a serious threat for Dreads and Stations. This could also increase the value of cruisers and smaller ships in a battle fleet.
[ This Message was edited by: Huffywuffy, Lord Of Sirius 1 on 2008-10-29 12:04 ]
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2008-10-29 15:38
I'm sure there's a way to approximate a leading targeting solution without a lot of calculations. Pretty much, anything would be better than what it's getting. I'd think that a +x gu's calculation based on the size of the target would be sufficient...Other options such as measuring the distance between the missle/target spot could adjust/reduce the lead targetting.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2008-10-29 15:47
I still dont get how missiles suddenly dont work this version. But id really like to see it fixed to:p
Kluth cant really fight effectively against reflective like this, the MD is pretty much a void ship, and it really just eliminates the use of missiles in my opinion.
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