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Building planets and why do they still die like lemmings |
Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
|  Posted: 2008-10-20 15:58
So, i ventured throughout the mv again and to my dismay i have found many (way too many) planet virtualy "dead" because of: XXX-shortages.
Perfectly healthy planets that should be able to be self sufficient get killed by random events.
One would expect theyd have the decency to get back up on their feet after that but NOOOOOOO. Not in this world no sir, no way thats gonna happen.
One has to SCRAP half the planet and then rebuuild it from the start.
Joy!(not)
Building a planet is tedious and annoying and boring as it is, doing it OVER and OVER and OVER again because the thing keeps killing itself IS NOT FUN.
Its like you invtented a new form of cancer, crossed with Leprosy and the black death itself.
I would like to have random events for planets utterly removed for as long as they don' t add FUN to the game.
Or do the resonable thing ad redo the building. Theres no need for have 3 tech levels, is there?
Throw out the whole tech levels thing, just leave in the level 3 buildings.
For ship spawning rename the t3 research to shipyardsupport facilitys and let them take the role of giving technology to determine what ships can be spawned and what mods can be changed.
Not only would it make building less a tedioum it would also speed it up considerably, allowing to move, attack, secure, move attack, secure without waiting like 2 hours for the planet to stand on its own.
[ This Message was edited by: Russian Roulette with Muskets on 2008-10-20 16:14 ]
Edit for Language... KEEP IT CLEAN ~ Tael
[ This Message was edited by: Tael on 2008-10-20 16:23 ]
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2008-10-20 16:06
Short answer: Don't build planets that can't deal with being attacked or damaged. A planet with all T3 buildings and 90 tech can't recover if it loses more than 10 tech points, which is pathetically easy.
If you don't want to have to babysit your high-tech, super-fragile planets, you'll have to adapt your build strategy so that the failure of a few structures won't result in it imploding instantly.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2008-10-20 16:15
Quote:
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On 2008-10-20 16:06, Gejaheline wrote:
Short answer: Don't build planets that can't deal with being attacked or damaged. A planet with all T3 buildings and 90 tech can't recover if it loses more than 10 tech points, which is pathetically easy.
If you don't want to have to babysit your high-tech, super-fragile planets, you'll have to adapt your build strategy so that the failure of a few structures won't result in it imploding instantly.
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The planets lack the smarts to get up by themselves. unless you stay level 1 with the buildings all around its goind to die.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2008-10-20 16:34
Use research bases & subspace comm centers instead of cort nexi. Use T1 and T2 defenses instead of T3. Use automated farms instead of bios. Learn to adapt to the way the game is. I've already rebuilt a few planets to be more adaptable and flexible, and they're holding up just fine through plagues bombing runs and whatnot.
The only planets, in my opinion, that should be all T3-ed out are the homeworlds, and even then expect to have to scrap every now & then to build up some. There should be a ladder of buildings to get you to where you're going.
Innovate. Improvise. Adapt. Improve.
Using 483 building styles with 1.5 is not only wrong, but its just plain not smart, and I think you've proven that it just doesn't work.
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Russian Roulette with Muskets
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 04, 2002
Posts: 393
| Posted: 2008-10-20 16:57
homeworlds cant be attacked anyway.
And if every other planet is not supposed to support l3 buildings, why do we have them?
Sure, one can adapt to such things but then again i can work around atmosperic pollution by wearing a gasmask and breathing filtered air 24/7 but thats simply just dealing with symptoms and will fail at some point.
Heck, why build anything but L1 in the first place? If you have it in the game it shoudl be useful and viable. if its not, then get rid of it.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2008-10-20 17:15
Umm... yes they can?
Build T1 & 2 for planets that aren't going to be used frequently, T3 for those that are. You accept the risk of using T3 in that the planet may go down.
Its all about tradeoffs and balances.
[ This Message was edited by: Coeus on 2008-10-20 17:16 ]
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Fornax
Marshal
Raven Warriors
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 906
From: Jacksonville, FL
| Posted: 2008-10-20 17:19
Actually, homeworlds can be attacked. All of them except Exathra are outside the safe zones. The ICC gate will be moved further away (if it isn't already, didn't re-check as I typed this).
I seem to recall that Sag Hotha was UGTO owned just a few days ago in at least one MV incarnation.
At the moment, the entire MV is more or less in a state of flux. Until told otherwise, I would expect at least ONE MORE RESET indefinately. Although we're telling you to go hog wild, kill each other and otherwise stress the server...it is a bit impolite, in the short term, to capture enemy homeworlds.
Consider that my opinion as a player, not a staffmember. We have not discussed, at any time, imposing any restrictions on any activity not already covered by the Rules of Conduct (which was mostly unchanged except for a few minor tweaks where certain *problems* are no longer possible)
Nax
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2008-10-20 17:48
I built 20 l1 def bases on a planet , formed a complete ring around the planet , and took 45 mins to do it . i believe this kind of planet are stronger and harder to bomb than a planet with 9 def base lv.
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Julian Delphiki
Admiral
Joined: June 19, 2002
Posts: 170
| Posted: 2008-10-20 18:57
Cortex nexii(or nexuses if you prefer) dont need to keep the tech to stay alive. So no need to have research labs on a fully built planet, cortex will stay just fine.
Use L2/L1 def on most planets. Higher HP and if u have 4 cortex(90 tech), they will be alright for quite a bit, as most planetary events dont knock the tech down that far. Also, on these planets use Quantum Gens rather than variance.
On shipyard planets that generally have higher tech, level 3 works fine as even if it is bombed or something else causes the tech to drop a little, it usually wont go below 90.
Building takes trial and error, saturnshadow seems to have learned and adopted his building style learning from the mistakes. His planets seem to do rather well.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2008-10-21 06:10
Quote:
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On 2008-10-20 18:57, Julian Delphiki wrote:
Cortex nexii(or nexuses if you prefer) dont need to keep the tech to stay alive. So no need to have research labs on a fully built planet, cortex will stay just fine.
Use L2/L1 def on most planets. Higher HP and if u have 4 cortex(90 tech), they will be alright for quite a bit, as most planetary events dont knock the tech down that far. Also, on these planets use Quantum Gens rather than variance.
On shipyard planets that generally have higher tech, level 3 works fine as even if it is bombed or something else causes the tech to drop a little, it usually wont go below 90.
Building takes trial and error, saturnshadow seems to have learned and adopted his building style learning from the mistakes. His planets seem to do rather well.
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After bombing, or a plage, population shortage -> power shortage -> research shortage -> food shortage.
This kills your planet. Build it up with at least some of the non-requiring production buildings, so that the planet can fully restart itself.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2008-10-21 08:42
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On 2008-10-21 06:10, Sixkiller wrote:
After bombing, or a plage, population shortage -> power shortage -> research shortage -> food shortage.
This kills your planet. Build it up with at least some of the non-requiring production buildings, so that the planet can fully restart itself.
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Yes, I'd concur. If you want T3 buildings, you'll need to have lower-level buildings that will raise the planet's tech level back to T3 in the event of disaster. For example, having enough T1 power plants to power enough labs that the T2 power comes back on, which then provides power to your T3 power/def bases. Unless I'm mistaken, it should be self-regulating since the planet won't try and activate structures that are short on tech.
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Huffywuffy, Mr. Builder
Fleet Admiral
Interstellar Cultural Confederation United
Joined: August 20, 2003
Posts: 76
| Posted: 2008-10-21 09:17
Food, Power and Research buildings are (or should be) unaffected by Tech shortages. Thus I see no real reason to build T1 buildings of those types on planets.
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Gejaheline
Fleet Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 19, 2005
Posts: 1127
From: UGTO MUNIN HQ, Mars
| Posted: 2008-10-21 10:26
Quote:
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On 2008-10-21 09:17, Huffywuffy, Lord Of Sirius 1 wrote:
Food, Power and Research buildings are (or should be) unaffected by Tech shortages. Thus I see no real reason to build T1 buildings of those types on planets.
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Testing would show that tech shortages do indeed affect everything except research buildings.
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Sixkiller
Marshal
Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: May 11, 2005
Posts: 1786
From: Netherlands
| Posted: 2008-10-21 11:32
Quote:
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On 2008-10-21 09:17, Huffywuffy, Lord Of Sirius 1 wrote:
Food, Power and Research buildings are (or should be) unaffected by Tech shortages. Thus I see no real reason to build T1 buildings of those types on planets.
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that is plain simply not true.
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Smartin
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 04, 2005
Posts: 1107
From: Michigan
| Posted: 2008-10-21 12:54
Quote:
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On 2008-10-21 09:17, Huffywuffy, Lord Of Sirius 1 wrote:
Food, Power and Research buildings are (or should be) unaffected by Tech shortages. Thus I see no real reason to build T1 buildings of those types on planets.
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I'm afraid six is right. Some stats:
Power:
Power Generators - Base Structure - Receive 10 Power
Quantam Generators - Requires Tech level 40 - Recieve 40 Power
Variance Genrators - Requires Tech level 80 - Receive 50 Power
Food:
Hydro Farm - Base Structure - Receive 10 Food
Automated Hydro Farm - Requires Tech level 20 - Receive 20 Food
Biosphere conitioner - Requires Tech leve 40 - Recieve 30 Food
Technology:
Reserach lab - Base Structure - Receive 10 Technology
Subspace network Lab Requires Tech level 55 - Recieve 15 Technology
Cortex Nexus - Requires Tech level 85 - Recieve 20 Technology
We upgrade to T2, and T3 structures in order to free up space on planets. 4 T3 cortex's will can take the place of 8 reasearch labs(keep in mind colony provides frist 10). So in essence if we want to make room for more defense then we must upgrade to a higher Teir structure. The question is where do, or don't we upgrade. That will all come down to testing, and playing with the numbers. Also keep in mind how many workers/power each structure will require. I know I favor Automated Hydro farms over Biosphere's when I can simply because it just requires power. Population falls you can still maintain food.
There are dozens and dozens of situtaitons that could play out here. Especially with bombing change so much to the point were its more about picking off support structures now, and not defense. Each faction is going to be force to build differently. Different defense structures, ICC have to account for shields, and the difference each faction will bomb. Nuets vs Bios, ICC defense vs UGTO/Kluth defense. Indepth testing will be needed per faction.
Hope this helped a little. I would type more indepth, but I don't have the time at the moment.
-Smartin-
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