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Not enough upgrades on higher level ships. |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2009-02-05 00:36
Cruisers and destroyers are much closer in overall strength than cruisers and dreads. I can definitely see you taking serious damage.
One of the things I think keeps getting overlooked when we talk about the strengths of different ships in this version is the fact that we don't have to slow to a stop to jump, and after ejumping our jumpdrives don't break. Yeah it's been like that for a while but I think it has significant impact in this version, since that affected dreads the most (if I can remember correctly).
If you don't think that's such a big deal and doesn't affect ship balance, think about how 1.5 would be if we did have to slow to a stop, and if our jumpdrives broke after ejumping. Our big bad dreads might not seem so powerful then would they? Cruisers and destroyers might look a whole lot more enticing to pilot.
(I'm not saying it's bad that we don't have to stop or worry about our drives breaking. But it might be interesting to test 1.5 on the beta server with needing to stop and drives breaking)
[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-02-05 00:38 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-02-05 01:14
The problem is that we're focusing too much on rank itself.
It has been known for a long time that rank or prestige is no indication of skill or ability. Since this is a twitch based game, ships are (supposedly) more based on skill rather than hard numbers.
Or should be anyways. They really aren't in same class of ship scenarios (cruiser vs. cruiser, etc.)
As it is, (or should be, rather), the FA ship (say, an Elite Assault Dreadnought) has a greater capacity of damage/tanking than say, a Battle Dreadnought. Its about the use of skillfully exploiting a ships strengths to its maximum where they begin to well, really pull ahead.
Of course its not really the case now. It seems the Dev's can't make up their minds with either more rank = more choices or more rank = more power. The first is better in my opinion (along with how massively it breaks away from most other MMOs).
Either way, Dread's own, so not really much to complain about (which really the only complaint seems to be "My higher ranked dread should more easily kill lower ranked dreads".)
-Ent
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Dune Warz
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 39
| Posted: 2009-02-05 06:07
I don't really mind the power differences between 2 dreads but the difference between a dread and a lets say destroyer or cruiser. If you are lower rank and are able to use a dread then I don't expect you to be weaker. I might have made it seem like that's what I meant but it's not. What I really mean is the power difference between a dread and destroyer don't make sense. The size difference between these two are huge but the power are minimal. Imagine having a space ship the size of lets say the twin towers but only the weaponary of a hand gun doesn't make sense. Now imagine a ship the size of a car with about 10 rocket lauchers on it.
Lets put it word differently, a ship the size of a car with 10 rocket launchers and a ship the size of a tower with 11 rocket launchers. Weird?
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Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
| Posted: 2009-02-05 06:46
UGTO Destroyer is overpowered and K'Luth Cruiser is underpowered.
Is this a fact?
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DarkScorpion
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 237
From: London England
| Posted: 2009-02-05 09:22
first my opinion on dread vs cruisers/destroyers
cruisers/detoryers on there own are no real threat to dreads 1v1 the roles of taking on dreads is mainly left to the dreads slogging it out and cruisers and destroyers to manouver round and attack the opersit side the hostile
dread is engaged or attack in numbers,its plain and simple.
Ok now to the comment sparkle made about aplha striking another ship and didnt take any visable damage its down to a lot of what seems as sync issues which strangley enough have came across more this version than the dreaded 483 its not very nice when you find a ship that totaly
dependent on its beams and with a few si thrown in the torps well only good fr hitting cruiser and destroyer pilots who have fallen asleep at there computer am torps are too damn slow and should be kept for dreads and fat juicy stations
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-02-05 09:42
Quote:
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On 2009-02-05 06:07, DyingReaper wrote:
Lets put it word differently, a ship the size of a car with 10 rocket launchers and a ship the size of a tower with 11 rocket launchers. Weird?
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The difference is, the 11 rocket launchers do more damage, the ship the size of a tower has thicker and better armor.
Thats the difference. There are inherent levels between the ship classes. The level difference between destroyers and dreadnoughts are massive - a single destroyer could only kill a Dreadnought if the dread were seriously incompetant or AFK. Even a cruiser could hardly do better.
You really have to try hard to lose to a smaller ship in a Dreadnought.
Which is why anything less than a Dreadnought is useless. Its like the car has 10 rocket launchers and the ship has 11 - except the car fires nerf rockets and the ship fires tactical nukes.
If anything, smaller ships need an upgrade, not Dreadnoughts. But we are the next WoW clone, so don't expect level 20 Destroyers competing with level 70 Dreadnoughts, to form an analogy of sorts. As it stands, expect your wish sometime eventually.
-Ent
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Pegasus
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 434
From: Eleventh galaxy on the right!
| Posted: 2009-02-05 10:56
Quote:
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If anything, smaller ships need an upgrade, not Dreadnoughts. But we are the next WoW clone, so don't expect level 20 Destroyers competing with level 70 Dreadnoughts, to form an analogy of sorts. As it stands, expect your wish sometime eventually. |
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Agreed, new players and returning older players need to get away from this mentality, end of the day its player skill that wins and using his or her skill as an advantage.
Though I do wish there was a bit more ship selection between higher ranks say from VA, especially for K'luth.
[ This Message was edited by: =Pegasus= on 2009-02-05 10:59 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-02-05 11:02
Ent is right, and we both agree on this issue. This game is starting to become one where rank is more important than ship choice and the ability to use that ship effectively (IE "skill"). I don't want to go back to the days where destroyers ruled the MV, I in fact want to go back further where dreads ruled, but cruisers and destroyers had enough firepower of their own that every ship was a threat.
The problem is ship component levels. A dread has, what, level 7 or 8 armor and weapons? And a destroyer has maybe level 4? So not only does the dread have more armor and weapons than a destroyer, all of it's armor and weapons are a higher level. It's overkill.
I've been saying for a while now that the dread's advantage in firepower should be from the fact that it has more weapons than smaller ships, not that it not only has more but each one is a lot better. That's how it used to be back before there was such thing as component levels. The game felt more balanced overall back them (pre-480 and earlier that is, if 480 was the version where kluth had cl2ks...I forget it's been so long)
Sync issues are a big problem too. It makes it really hard to gauge just how powerful each ship is vs another class, because you can never be sure what you're watching is accurate.
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-02-05 12:37
I think problem isnt clear enough explained.
I can show how to beat down(kill) a battle dread in a kluth stinger.It will take some time to do it . I know because i did it a few days ago. It took me 7-8 mins to hull battle dread and get not hulled. But in current ds play, timing is all. Which means battles last for 3 mins and ships jump out to get repaired. And seriously , u cant expect a cruiser to kill a dread in less than 5 mins 1 on 1. As nobody flies solo in these days, it is hard to hurt a dread in a small ship.. In fact it is easier while arc bug is present. After arc bug will be fixed i am sure small ships will have tougher time to hurt a dread.
Peace!
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-06 08:34
Well i witness a Beak kluth frigate kill a UGTO Carrier dread.
I flew the Beak and cant remember who was flying the UGTO dread.
But point is that i could have been killed long ago but this UGTO pilot aperently could not pilot a dread yet.
He bearly kept moving or even trying to dodge i got to hit the same arc until hull dmg and still he didint turn side.
He had 1 or 2 dreads in same system but noone didint seem to help him.
As someone mentioned teamwork is important too 
Simple as it is you can die in a Dread/Cruiser from a smaller ship, if you cant pilot the bigger ship.
My opinon of this topic:
Rankings seems ok as far as i see.
But there is alot else thats not fine.
But thats another story go and read the *Some UGTO ships needs to be weekened*
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-02-06 08:40
And adding something to Pakhos post, after long battle trying to kill a dread, still after that either the dread jumps to SY and docks or jumps of Map and logs or just takes next ship out of storage.
I think that it should be changed as it was before atleast that if you dock at one planet ship should only be abe to be undocked from there as it use to bein old patch.
Or atlest fix it as someone mentioned in another topic that there should be a penalty time in somesort from docking, so that you cant just keep pulling out new ships while enemy still flies that damaged ship.
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