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interdictors |
MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
|  Posted: 2009-03-02 13:51
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On 2009-03-02 12:01, Carns wrote:
Why even have them?
People only want them if their side has them. If the other side has them, people start to play elsewhere, or log off.
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Exactly, which is why fixing dictors isn't exactly something I've been bringing up in lobby. I like the gameplay without them.
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-03-02 17:16
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On 2009-03-02 12:09, Russian Roulette with Muskets wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-03-02 12:01, Carns wrote:
Why even have them?
People only want them if their side has them. If the other side has them, people start to play elsewhere, or log off.
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truth spoken.
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bumpady bump.
Fix Dicters Plz!!!
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To those i quoted, then fly them yourselfs if yer gunna b such nancys.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-03-02 17:36
Way to raise the level of discourse.
Also, don't bump threads when the issue is known.
Though personally I'm not a big fan of them either. What is it about them that keeps the entire -0- fleet subscribed? Because your last reply - fly them yourselves - not only makes no sense in response to their comments, but doesn't explain your affection for them.
I find they're a good thing in theory - like Strategery says, adding deeper tactics and making people think a bit more. But in practice they just seem to frustrate everyone on the opposing factions and depress combat willingness.
I've always advocated that they be weak and underpowered so that moving with the thing on will run you out of energy in <1min. You can do bursts of dictoring, but you can't dominate a dynamic battlefield. Barring that, I'd prefer they're gone.
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2009-03-02 17:38
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On 2009-03-02 12:49, Strategery wrote:
Dictors are battle equalizers
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I'm not sure that is a true statement.
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-03-02 18:07
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On 2009-03-02 17:36, Shigernafy wrote:
But in practice they just seem to frustrate everyone on the opposing factions and depress combat willingness.
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Enemy ships killing me frustrate and depress my combat willingness
nerf plz
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-03-02 18:52
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On 2009-03-02 17:36, Shigernafy wrote:
Though personally I'm not a big fan of them either. What is it about them that keeps the entire -0- fleet subscribed? Because your last reply - fly them yourselves - not only makes no sense in response to their comments, but doesn't explain your affection for them.
I find they're a good thing in theory - like Strategery says, adding deeper tactics and making people think a bit more. But in practice they just seem to frustrate everyone on the opposing factions and depress combat willingness.
I've always advocated that they be weak and underpowered so that moving with the thing on will run you out of energy in <1min. You can do bursts of dictoring, but you can't dominate a dynamic battlefield. Barring that, I'd prefer they're gone. |
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See, what frustruates *me* is how easy it is for a ship to escape combat, and how easy it is to get into close range. Longer-ranged ships have a hard time keeping that range open when there's nothing stopping an enemy jumping into direct proximity. Even more frustrating is the transport rush, where ships jump in right next to a planet and drop inf before they can be even targeted.
Without dictors, it becomes much, much harder--if not impossible--to shape the battlefield. You cannot stop the enemy from going wherever they want or from leaving whenever they want (barring jump recharges). You can't force the enemy to commit their forces unless they're all in stations and have to wait until their HMAs recharge. You can't have a truly decisive battle because it's so easy to escape.
THAT is incredibly frustrating to me. Compared to that, getting blown up due to being dictored is nothing. At least there I have potential counters: attack the dictor or fly away faster than it can keep up with you.
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Zero28
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 25, 2006
Posts: 591
| Posted: 2009-03-02 19:09
I second jim
it force you to plan befor acting,Actual Missile Dread will be more usefull if they dont always get jumped on.Nor enemy can easily flee after picking the planets defence EG Plats
that may also solve the problem the Current Faction as against Kluth,Right now there can easily flee,But if dictor worked,that would probably change and so the mind of the people
PS im not a kluth player
[ This Message was edited by: Dark-Zero on 2009-03-02 19:11 ]
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Meko
Grand Admiral
Joined: March 03, 2004
Posts: 1956
From: Vancouver
| Posted: 2009-03-03 03:06
Quote:
| Way to raise the level of discourse.
Also, don't bump threads when the issue is known.
Though personally I'm not a big fan of them either. What is it about them that keeps the entire -0- fleet subscribed? Because your last reply - fly them yourselves - not only makes no sense in response to their comments, but doesn't explain your affection for them.
I find they're a good thing in theory - like Strategery says, adding deeper tactics and making people think a bit more. But in practice they just seem to frustrate everyone on the opposing factions and depress combat willingness.
I've always advocated that they be weak and underpowered so that moving with the thing on will run you out of energy in <1min. You can do bursts of dictoring, but you can't dominate a dynamic battlefield. Barring that, I'd prefer they're gone.
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Im all about discourse on this issue 
And since i am such on this issue, ill explain where we come from, without any female hygenic products being refferenced.
"What is it about them that keeps the entire -0- fleet subscribed? "
It gives us a reason to play. Currently in the MV planets are useless, and worthless. so bombing, capturing or defending planets doesnt appeal to us simply on the basis of "what for?"
"But in practice they just seem to frustrate everyone on the opposing factions and depress combat willingness."
This is a double edged blade. People love to pew pew at each other all day long, but they hate getting blown up themselves. Our fleet comes from a more brutal game, where EVERY combat ship fits tackling gear (ie interdictormoduals) therefor, when your in range, you have 3 options. Die, Fight or Run. How does this apply to darkspace specifically? Well in darkspace u have even more options. Die, Fight, Run (and i dont mean shift-j) or escape by more clever ways. for example, if your a cruiser being dictored and chased by an EAD, out run him then turn and kill the dictor after the dread jumps you.
Secondly, going back to the "whats the point" i stated above, and Jim already covered this: Enemy ships escaping when they have NO RIGHT to is anoying. getting killed in a dictor field is no anoyance at all.
*By no right, i mean an EAD jumping into orbit in the middle of a fleet at full speed, ganking 1 or 2 younger players, then hightailing it around the planet and jumping away basically unscathed.*
Heres a question to the people that do not like dictors. How do you feel, when you limp your 10% hull dread back to your depot planet, and i hot drop my AD right on you and kill you? I wouldnt be able to do that if dictors worked now would i.
"You can do bursts of dictoring, but you can't dominate a dynamic battlefield. Barring that, I'd prefer they're gone. "
Ill adress this in 3 sections:
1st. Your looking at this in a purely Offensive way. Tranny rushes are impossible to stop without them. Almost every player can be travelling fullspeed, and pointjump so close to a planet that the def bases cannot stop the drop.
In addition, whats more frustrating to a hostile force when thier renforcements have to double jump to avoid a dictor camped between a fight and thier SY planet?
2nd. Actual interdictor combat. This should please the people who think Kluth are overpowered: When that luth decloaks behind you and you have a dictor, he cant leave as easy. You can ping and you can manually det your torps and you Can kill them this way.
In addition: Jim already pointed this out but ill reiterate. Missile dreads, carrier dreads, and Ganglias are very easy to kill when you can point jump directly on them. Forcing an aponent to run through your fire before they can hit you is a tactical choice that should be used. Also, this will again increase the worth of smaller ships. An EAD burning full steam through a dictor field will take a while, where as 2 cruisers and a dictor can turn the tide of that situation Fast.
3rd. Rescue operations. You make your e-jump and someone tracked you, hes 2k away and your hulls venting plasma. This is a death sentance. With a dictor however, its a race: Who will land on your position first, the friendly dictor or the hostiles who are surely aligning to your position.
"I've always advocated that they be weak and underpowered so that moving with the thing on will run you out of energy in <1min."
Interdictors Are weak and underpowered. To run a dictor indefinitly you need to be flying about 10gu/s and not fire any weapons. so effectivly your a slow target. Also in reality you are a target when your in a dictor, as everyone wants your blood.
"Because your last reply - fly them yourselves"
That comment was based on experiences in the MV. Quite often ill hear a "Oh you chicken" when i jump away from multiple hostiles... IE a sticky situation. well my responce to that is why dont you stop me? =)
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Concerning the 'main issue' of the Interdictors directly:
Everyone loves to get a kill but hates to die. Why do you play a PvP based game then? I mean honestly, whats the difference between being dictored on the field and ejumping - gettign tracked - and then killed. In both scenarios you entered combat, tried to run and died. I've always been an advocate of this rule: Dont fly a ship in combat that you are not completely willing to lose.
In regards to the losing of the ships part, getting killed in this game is honestly nothing. I lost my first station during Jbuds last event, and i did it willingly and on purpose. I lost a whopping 200 pres. I gained more than i lost repairing ships right after combat. The enhancements on my station - still there. The pres i lost - gained back and more. The only negative impact from that death was +1 to my deaths in my profile.
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Now someone said it earlier, sorry i cant remember who, but they sugested that interdictors should stop friendly ships as well. I wholeheartedly agree, adding that particular change to them not only makes sense, but it you force interdictor pilots to have timing and skill in managing thier bursts.
Sorry for the long post but this is the most important bug in the game right now. Arc bug was fixed, as was desynch issues, so this should be #1 priority now.
Speaking of that, interdictors not working are a bug. They are suppost to work. That should be an indication of 'learn 2 love' amiright?
Edit: Having people running scared in thier dreads will make alot of players choose cruisers over dreads as well yes? That will help easy the whole 'dreadspace' issue.
[ This Message was edited by: Meko on 2009-03-03 03:15 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-03-03 06:07
Quote:
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On 2009-03-02 17:36, Shigernafy wrote:
Way to raise the level of discourse.
Also, don't bump threads when the issue is known.
Though personally I'm not a big fan of them either. What is it about them that keeps the entire -0- fleet subscribed? Because your last reply - fly them yourselves - not only makes no sense in response to their comments, but doesn't explain your affection for them.
I find they're a good thing in theory - like Strategery says, adding deeper tactics and making people think a bit more. But in practice they just seem to frustrate everyone on the opposing factions and depress combat willingness.
I've always advocated that they be weak and underpowered so that moving with the thing on will run you out of energy in <1min. You can do bursts of dictoring, but you can't dominate a dynamic battlefield. Barring that, I'd prefer they're gone.
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What I'm about to say might sound crazy, but in another game I have - Empire At War - I believe the interdictor ship the Empire gets cannot move when the dictor is active?
I wonder if that could work in DS. Dictors are an amazingly useful and powerful device, and using them should come at great cost including vulnerability.
I'd rather they not be in the game at all personally. I also believe what Shigernafy says about them causing frustration and lowering combat willingness, not to mention promote planet camping even further.
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Danek Ma`arna C`arns
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 102
From: Atlanta
| Posted: 2009-03-03 08:51
Since I joined DS, I have always been told to not go for the kill... be satisfied with doing the damage.
Any time I have pulled out an interdictor, usually because I hate being Dread pointjumped, I am told to put it away, because everyone leaves.
Most of your "reasons" have you fixing the wrong problem. Get rid of point jumping. Add a randomizer to the destination of a jump.
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2009-03-03 09:04
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On 2009-03-03 08:51, Carns wrote:
Since I joined DS, I have always been told to not go for the kill... be satisfied with doing the damage.
Any time I have pulled out an interdictor, usually because I hate being Dread pointjumped, I am told to put it away, because everyone leaves.
Most of your "reasons" have you fixing the wrong problem. Get rid of point jumping. Add a randomizer to the destination of a jump.
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Did they tell you not to kill your target or that you should be happy enough doing the damage? There is a difference.
You were probably told to put it away because they don't work but yes most people don't like them.
If we couldn't point jump K'Luth would be the only faction that could sneak up on a target.
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Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-03-03 09:05
The reason people whine when they're brought out is because they're too used to being able to jump at will, and aren't accustomed to figuring out how to escape a real trap. 
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Delando
Marshal
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 260
| Posted: 2009-03-03 09:33
Most people hate dictors, I make it a rule to target em first when i see em.
That said, there is NO offical rules against using it. And every faction have one. Except for the kluth piercer, which can cloak, dictors are fairly easily killed.
The problem. It's not a Equalizer. It's almost always the Larger fleet that uses em.
This causes the smaller fleet's chance of surviving battle to go from difficlut to suicidal. Thus discourage battle.
An NO, it does not fix the dreadspace issue, it make it worse, b/c smaller ships who rely on faster jd recharge to survive close encounter with dreads now can't jump.
The good news: very few people are good at flying dictors. So unless u see someone who u know is a veteran flying one, kill the noob and take satifaction from it.
[ This Message was edited by: Delando on 2009-03-03 09:40 ]
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Doran
Chief Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 29, 2003
Posts: 4032
From: The Gideon Unit
| Posted: 2009-03-03 11:06
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On 2009-03-03 09:05, Jim Starluck wrote:
The reason people whine when they're brought out is because they're too used to being able to jump at will, and aren't accustomed to figuring out how to escape a real trap.
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this
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On 2009-03-03 09:05, Jim Starluck wrote:
aren't accustomed to figuring out |
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but mostly this
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Faustus
Marshal
Palestar
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 2748
From: Austin, Texas
| Posted: 2009-03-03 11:18
We are considering a couple of changes to interdictors...
Change 1: Add a spin up time for jumping once you are aligned, around 1 second perhaps... however, if you are in a interdictor field, then it make take 10-30 seconds to jump depending on the number and level of interdictors.
Change 2: Remove ship based interdictors and keep planet based ones only.
Your thoughts and comments are welcome...
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