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The role of Vessels smaller than Dreads... |
Nim * Chief Marshal Courageous Elite Commandos
Joined: September 05, 2004 Posts: 295
| Posted: 2009-03-31 10:45  
remove ai and enchancements, that'l fix everything!
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Ham&Swiss Grand Admiral
Joined: October 12, 2004 Posts: 418 From: 10$ to whoever finds me
| Posted: 2009-03-31 12:24  
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On 2009-03-31 03:20, Leonide[R33] wrote:
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On 2009-03-30 23:52, Ham&Swiss [R33] wrote:
Before you flame or anything, listen.
Dreads are supposed to be weps platforms that have the ability to move. It's why we call them DREADNAUGHT'S...frigates are supposed to be weaker to anything above it's own hull class. I believe the ratio is 2:1. 2 scouts to 1 frigate, 2 frig's to 1 dessie and so forth. It just doesn't make sense for 2 frigates to be able to take out a dread with moderate difficulty at best. Maybe 2 crusiers, but not frigs...The role of smaller ships is to learn how to use them effectively, and for things like point defence and other fun things like that. Thats the reason they were given mines and lazers and EMW's.
The balance is good right now, if I come in my mandible, which was made for dread killing purposes mind you, and just happen to turn my attention (and incidently my weps) on a frigate/dessie that happens to be annoying me, logic dictates it should go boom....or really, REALLY close to boomage.
Do not increase anything on the smaller ships, they're fine. Continue with other aspects of the game that could use tweaking.
H&S
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translation: i love dreadspace, don't take easymode away from me!
dude, we need to make smaller ships more viable again, cruisers cannot even cut it in the MV anymore because if this, because everyone and their grandmother is in a dreadnought. only a hard limit of dreadnoughts would bring cruisers to viability again.
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And yet, 2 BC's can easily take out a dread...infact, flying dreads is a big risk right now...at least when you have someone with at least an iq of 23.5 behind the controls of the crusiers. I'm pretty sure anyone on the Luth side of the universe will agree, we're fighting a war right now, and 1 ships = death. 2+ships = a chance. Fight with tactics once in a while, and stop complaining.
And while we're at it, why don't you go and relearn how to fly?
And i'm enjoying my time flying dreads again. Last patch there was a distinct lack of the Main Stay of the fleets. I.E. Combat/Battle/Mandible Dreads. The main stay of the fleets were more along the lines of ED/PD's and some crusiers. Dreads weren't much fun to fly in. Now they're awsome and fun again, and your complaining that dessie's and crusiers can't solo and that they're useless?
Heck with it, i'm done....you guys complain all you want. Not gonna even bother anymore. Have fun, i'm going back to my DreadSpace.
H&S
_________________ If violence doesn't work, Your not using enough!
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Enterprise Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002 Posts: 2576 From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-03-31 14:58  
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And yet, 2 BC's can easily take out a dread...infact, flying dreads is a big risk right now...at least when you have someone with at least an iq of 23.5 behind the controls of the crusiers. I'm pretty sure anyone on the Luth side of the universe will agree, we're fighting a war right now, and 1 ships = death. 2+ships = a chance. Fight with tactics once in a while, and stop complaining.
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CliffNotes:
- 2 Battle Dreadnoughts can do it faster, better, and with less risk.
- K'luth cruisers are actually noticeably weaker due to OH HEY LETS PUT ALL BEAMS ON A SHIP ideas that pretty much fails because you have to you know, move.
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And i'm enjoying my time flying dreads again. Last patch there was a distinct lack of the Main Stay of the fleets. I.E. Combat/Battle/Mandible Dreads. The main stay of the fleets were more along the lines of ED/PD's and some crusiers. Dreads weren't much fun to fly in. Now they're awsome and fun again, and your complaining that dessie's and crusiers can't solo and that they're useless?
Heck with it, i'm done....you guys complain all you want. Not gonna even bother anymore. Have fun, i'm going back to my DreadSpace.
H&S
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More notes:
- Dreadnoughts being a "main stay" does not mean that they are the solution to every problem. It simply means they provide the backbone of a fleet. The problem of course, is that its the only type of ship in a fleet.
Read: ED/PD's again. By their very existance, they pretty much made using anything else completely redundant. And while it makes more sense in the perspective that something big and large and higher ranked does this, that does not neccessarily mean its balanced, or fun.
Rather, its only fun for people who have them, or who simply enjoy bigger ships, or like the fact that they do alot of damage.
Not so much for everyone else.
- Cruisers and Dessies aren't useless because they can't solo larger ships, they are useless because larger ships can solo well, everything else. It brings back the redundancy argument that .483 suffers as well : If one type of ship is better for everything, then why use anything else?
Thus the point of the thread, is that smaller ships lack a significant role, in that anything they can do, Dreadnoughts can do better, in nearly every way.
INb4 on paper, smaller ships are better, because it doesn't make an ounce of difference.
-Ent
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Jim Starluck Marshal Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001 Posts: 2232 From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-03-31 15:11  
There IS one thing that smaller ships are currently better at than Dreadnoughts are.
Surviving.
Especially against superior odds. A smaller ship can evade a lot of incoming fire, while a dread just has to sit there and take it. The dread's shields and armor will eventually run out, but the small ship can just keep on dodging.
It's why when I was hunting Elite Pirates in Rogen's Rift, I used a Combat Dessie instead of a Heavy Cruiser, because the Dessie could get in and out more reliably. The cruiser, with its lower maneuverability and slower-to-charge jumpdrive, couldn't. A dread would've been even worse, but it would also have been able to smash pirate ships left and right, so it's something of a tradeoff.
Also, Scouts are exceedingly superior at... well, scouting. They can get in and observe enemy positions and movement without difficulty. Shame that such things are largely irrelevant to the gameplay currently.
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Enterprise Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002 Posts: 2576 From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-03-31 17:39  
It depends on how you look at it. A smaller ship is easier to survive in, sure, but then you have to realize what you might achieve while doing so.
Against NPCs, its not really a factor, they're idiots.
In PvP, a larger ship may be more susceptible to dieing but then, a larger ship will probably take out enough or do enough damage in the meantime to completely outweigh whatever the player lost while doing so.
A smaller ship however, has about as much chance of putting a dent into a fleet before it dies (or runs away), as does a fly running headlong into a brick wall.
What good is surviving, if you accomplish nothing for your troubles? You'd probably do more by blowing up under them.
-Ent
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Sens [R33] Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 1020 From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-03-31 17:40  
It should be said that cruisers are in a bit of a... "limbo" at the moment; they aren't all that great maneurability wise, and lack substantial firepower as a viable trade-off. It would be nice if we could specialise cruisers rather than have them be the in-between ship.
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DarkScorpion Marshal Sanity Assassins
Joined: September 14, 2004 Posts: 237 From: London England
| Posted: 2009-04-01 06:46  
I have to agree with Ent on the part about Kluth cruisers it makes ships like the parasite well pointless hmm all beams apart from a few missiles against this ugto cruiser with reflective armour thats a lose for a start
even against a icc cruiser same thing, i know kluth are not ment to be able to take on another ship of equal size with out cloaking but even with that its power reserves are so small you would run dry before you get anywhere near to killling it plus with all the bad sync around makes a ship that deppends on all beams as its main stay weapon risky cant afford a single out of sync fire the elf cost you more to fire than you can drain.
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Pegasus Grand Admiral Pitch Black
Joined: August 02, 2005 Posts: 434 From: Eleventh galaxy on the right!
| Posted: 2009-04-01 08:17  
Bring back the Scale of 483 and alot of K'luth pilots will use that over the dreads.
_________________ Retired K'luth Combateer
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Coeus Grand Admiral Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006 Posts: 2815 From: Philly
| Posted: 2009-04-01 10:09  
The role of vessels smaller than Dreads is... LUNCH!
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