| Author |
New Beacon Idea |
Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
|  Posted: 2009-03-24 07:53
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-21 06:17, Azreal wrote:
I've suggested before, and I resuggest it here.
Make beacons detectable by anyone with a scanner, that no-purpose gadget that almost everyone can use. Then, when a ship is beaconed, anyone with a scanner in the same system can turn on the scanner and pick up the beacon's signal.
On a cloaked ship, you wouldn't see the ship per say, but the beacon attached to it. You would then target the beacon and fire, but the beacon would have a certain time limit/maybe hitpoints.
Also, it should be made to where when you use a scanner, then anyone in the same system can see you, same as if a sub used sonar.
Also, tho this seems to be the desire, beacons are not ONLY for use vs Kluth. They are for tracking down ejumped ships of any faction. So stop trying to gear them as an anti-kluth weapon ONLY.
Unless of course, Kluth will get a weapon that nullifies UGTO armor, or one that nullifies ICC shields.
Az
|
|
I like this ide. Because so far Becons is only a weapon against kluth.
UGTO and ICC really dont care if they get hit from a becon, because they already are visible for everyone else.
So with Az ide would give Becons a real purpose.
This way a scout could be used as a very effective tracking ship.
Would give em little more purpose the game.
[ This Message was edited by: Daedalus Bum on 2009-03-24 07:54 ]
_________________
|
Ham&Swiss
Grand Admiral
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 418
From: 10$ to whoever finds me
| Posted: 2009-03-24 08:09
You all suck.
That being said, pay close attention, cause you bout to be school'd!
Lesson #1: Jim your beacon idea is the best beacon idea i've heard of in a long time. Sure it would make things a little bit tricky if the beacon pilot had half a brain, but being in a scout....chances of that are slim to none. And I think the max limit of beacons should be 3 beacons at a range of 50gu a hit. Would be sufficient distance to make it almost suicidal for the beacon pilot, but at the same time, force the beasoned pilot to decloak, hit the enemy ship and get out, all while takeing additional damage. Plus, if the ship has scanners equiped then the ejumping ship can only get soo far (with a max scanning distance of say 10k gu.)
Lesson #2: This thread was a god thing, and any people who make fun of it, or waste posting space should simply have their post deleted. (that means you manny! that post just made you look dumb!)
Lesson #3: Instead of just complaining about all of K'Luths downfalls, play on our strengths. For example: Even though the ECCM Ping supposedly wasn't even meant to exist, it does. GET OVER IT. And contrary to popular belief, the Luth do have a counter to it. Simply run ECM when cloaked. I do and i never get pinged. Plus running it counters a few points of any sensor bases/plats put out.
Lesson #4: Beacons weren't even meant to go faster then Superman. There's no need. If you want to play with beacons, then you have to be in a bit'o danger. And if you don't like that fact, then don't use beacons. I mean, c'mon a scout or picket dessie going against a dread? what'd you expect would happen?
On a side note,
I personaly would love a JD that would let me warp in with out have a sig thats detectable halfway across the system. Might even make it easier to run from persuing ships because you would have a lower sig, (even though you would be slower).
And The ECM/ECCM thing? Heck, i'd love it if ECM didn't counter my own ECCM. It'd be nice if i could at least have SOME sig protectino when ICC decide to build 3-5 sensor plats...it's hard to claok with a sig of 42....
My thought, read em, ignore em, But Jim, keep up the good brain storming!
H&S
_________________
If violence doesn't work, Your not using enough!
|
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-03-24 09:56
As Jim said , kluth is hit and run faction.
Kluth must not be tracked and chased down, because we hit and run.
You make a new beacon which enables you to see kluth at 10k gu away , simply ironic to way of kluth plays CURRENTLY. Kluth supposes to jump away, wait to get energy , use it's ahr to repair and come back to battle zone.
For kluth, one of the most commun tactic is charge your jumpdrive before you attack someone. Due the energy useage and not having a good type of armor , makes kluth spend everybit of energy in single assault and jump away immediately. After each assault and jump out, most kluth ships must sit STATIC for a -lets say- 20 or 30 seconds to recover weapon recharge , get energy to cloak and move on low speed. Now think about your going to be chased down because u are beaconed. So this will change the current kluth tactic about hit and run. We will play only hit and being chased down. I bet u will say , then jump more than 10k. Well right , i can jump 50k gu and be juiceless which will make me log from server..
Consider this as comment , opinion , not as whining.
Peace
_________________
* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
|
Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-03-24 10:14
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-24 08:09, Ham&Swiss [R33] wrote:
You all suck.
|
|
First of al that kinda rude to throw out those words for ppl that have their own ides of the becon.
And second of all what Phakos said is true.
And to add that ppl think that becons are just a joke atm, and that they dont work good enough.
They work and scares a luth, always when a kluth fleet sees a scout in action they remind others to be carefull cause the scout got becons.
Usualy we target it first because its a threat for us.
Ive seen many times that a kluth pilot gets blown up because he got beconed.
Only situations we survive those hits is simply that ppl ignore the beconed ship and let him move away from field and wait that 20sec before he can cloak again.
20 seconds is more that enough time to take out a Kluth ship, if not... simply you dont got enough firepower at your side and thats not the becons fault.
And if someone thinks beconing is hard, well why should it be easy enough for anyone to use? Because cloaking is Kluths "thingy", why should it be so easy to uncloak em with a push of a button?
And reason i think Azreal ide was good because becons should affect all factions, not just kluth. Mabye its not perfect for someones opinion but HEY, what is perfect?
There can always be something changed in other ppls ides that makes it beter.
_________________
|
Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-03-24 13:12
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-24 09:56, Pakhos wrote:
As Jim said , kluth is hit and run faction.
Kluth must not be tracked and chased down, because we hit and run.
You make a new beacon which enables you to see kluth at 10k gu away , simply ironic to way of kluth plays CURRENTLY. Kluth supposes to jump away, wait to get energy , use it's ahr to repair and come back to battle zone.
For kluth, one of the most commun tactic is charge your jumpdrive before you attack someone. Due the energy useage and not having a good type of armor , makes kluth spend everybit of energy in single assault and jump away immediately. After each assault and jump out, most kluth ships must sit STATIC for a -lets say- 20 or 30 seconds to recover weapon recharge , get energy to cloak and move on low speed. Now think about your going to be chased down because u are beaconed. So this will change the current kluth tactic about hit and run. We will play only hit and being chased down. I bet u will say , then jump more than 10k. Well right , i can jump 50k gu and be juiceless which will make me log from server..
Consider this as comment , opinion , not as whining.
Peace
|
|
The current problem is that K'luth are way too good at hit and run. With competent pilots they are nigh-impossible to kill, even if we're Pinging our hearts out.
There has to be some way to counter their tactics. I am trying to introduce such a counter, without making it be too powerful.
_________________
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger space battleship and try again.
|
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-03-24 13:58
Quote:
|
The current problem is that K'luth are way too good at hit and run. With competent pilots they are nigh-impossible to kill, even if we're Pinging our hearts out.
|
|
Jim, I believe u have no a valid point to base your idea on competent players . If a player is competent , he/she deserves to survive any kind of attack doesnt matter what faction plays for. If we are way to good about hit and run , then you are way too good about shield rotation or you are way too good about when to flux. Also think like that ; Kluth are way to good about hit an run.. Was intentional? Yes, it was . Then? Perfectly done by dev team.
Quote:
|
There has to be some way to counter their tactics. I am trying to introduce such a counter, without making it be too powerful.
|
|
Counter what? counter "the hit" or counter "the run"? If you think to counter the hit part of kluth faction you are mistaking.. Kluth faction will be senseless to play. If you think to counter "the run" part, then fix the dictor and dont let the kluth run.. If your new beacon idea becomes real and we got dictored fixed, this may create alot of "negative posts".
Hope you can show something real to us about why beacons must be changed. Not like you are too competent or beacons are "meh".
peace
_________________
* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2009-03-24 14:32
I suggest that--before any player attempts to form a sensible opinion about game-balance and/or thinks of introducing a suggestion regarding the tweaking of this game balance--each of these players first plays a small stint of combat on each of the three factions to determine what makes them clock and what makes them dock.
Then, and only then, after you have gained sufficient knowledge of just what the issues are with each of the factions, only then can you make an appropriate suggestion that will not trigger the age-old RPS-discussion.
*RPS-discussion:
"Dear developers,
Paper is overpowered. You should decrease their combat value.
- Rock."
"Dear devs,
Rock is cleanly out of his bloody mind. Paper is fine, Rock is unkillable.
Scissors."
"Developers,
Scissors are idiots, Rock is completely fine. But Scissors have too much of a niche ability to counter us. You should either lessen this ability of theirs or give us counter-measures for it.
Sincerely, Paper."
_________________
|
Jim Starluck
Marshal
Templar Knights
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 2232
From: Cincinnati, OH
| Posted: 2009-03-24 14:33
Even a competent and skilled player should not be invincible, especially if and when the enemy is using teamwork and good tactics to tip the balance in their favor. The reason so many are surviving now is because Dictors are broken. Even if it were just planetary dictors working, you would see a lot less jumping-out-at-the-last-second escapes. Even the best player can't escape if the odds are stacked against them.
Admittedly, cloaking isn't THAT broken. Especially in the close-range Dreadnought slugging matches that dominate combat these days; it's easy to Ping and manually target when the ship you're shooting is big, slow and nearby. But even then they can frustratingly slip away, and with your healing you can patch up and come back for more.
Fixing dictors would make it a lot harder for ICC and UGTO to escape unscathed, but K'luth would still have cloaking, which would let them escape dictors with much more ease than their human counterparts.
I'm not looking to nerf cloaking, because the whole K'luth playstyle depends upon having a functioning and effective cloak, and I like that. I'm just looking to dampen its strength slightly.
Instead of just entirely rejecting what I'm saying and insisting things are fine how they are, perhaps you could suggest a way to ensure Beacons wouldn't be too powerful.
_________________
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger space battleship and try again.
|
DarkScorpion
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 237
From: London England
| Posted: 2009-03-24 15:07
Well i dont know what is wrong with you all saying that beacons not good enough its the same as sticking a damn sensor plat on us sig wise you moan about when we can uncloak and fire too fast as you say try uncloaking any where near a eccm fortrest good luck with that might get 30 to 40 second penalty try and reclaok pissible a minute and this all together a possible of one and a half minutes of not being able to fire
try it when your being blasted by other ships.
Okas too run ecm to counter eccm ping (bug) feature kluth do run ecm all the time while uncloaked as for some smart ass reason you ping yourself.
if you must make a change to beacons a idea of making it possible to track 5k 20 secs and a maximum of one beacon but all beacons should realy be able to be removed at a planet of the faction who had been beacon so please dont go back to 483 crap where your sitting in open space not for 5 minutes not being able to take part in battle because.
P.S fix the damn dictors so people dont have to suround a planet with ships just to stop a trany jumping droping inf planet caped makes point of having any defence on planets pointless if you cant isolate it to hostile ships make it effect all
_________________
|
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-03-24 16:00
Quote:
|
Instead of just entirely rejecting what I'm saying and insisting things are fine how they are, perhaps you could suggest a way to ensure Beacons wouldn't be too powerful.
|
|
Jim, do whatever pleases you . It is just a game. You are staff and i am a player.
If you want to code a new beacon, go ahead.
It is not matter of life.
_________________
* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
|
Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-03-24 16:42
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-19 15:02, Jim Starluck wrote:
Right now, Beacons are kinda "meh." Sure they add 20 sig, which makes it take a looong time for a K'luth ship to cloak and makes it impossible for anyone to hide using ECM, but that's kinda boring. And it doesn't do anything at all when a K'luth ship is already fully cloaked.
So I've got a new idea.
Instead of adding sig, a Beacon will relay the beaconed ship's position to the ship that did the beaconing... within a limited distance. The distance is proportional to the signature of the beaconed ship. At 0.0 signature or below, the distance shrinks to the minimum "visual" detection range--that is, how close you have to get to see a ship using enough ECM to stay hidden. And they would have a limited lifetime; say, 5-10 minutes.
This means that in order to track a cloaked ship, the beacon-launching ship--which is going to be a Scout or an Escort/Picket Dessie (as they also have beacons IIRC)--will need to stay very close to the target. And since the beacon no longer affects how quickly a ship can cloak, there's not much stopping the beaconed ship from decloaking, blasting the ship tracking it, and cloaking again in short order. The beacon only supplies info to the ship that launched it, so once that ship is dead the beacon is useless.
In fact, this would also encourage the K'luth to use smaller ships to take out beacon-launchers, because they are smaller and thus the minimum distance to detect them is much, much lower. So even if the smaller ship gets beaconed, it can shake the pursuit of the tracker much more easily.
And of course if the K'luth are just making hit-and-run attacks, they can jump out and wait for the beacons to expire, then sneak back in.
Hey, that gives me another idea. How about an alternate Jumpdrive for the K'luth, that travels slower, has less fuel and a longer cooldown but doesn't give you +50 sig while jumping? Perhaps a Psionic Jumpdrive, since they've got Antimatter and Psionic Engines and only Antimatter Jumpdrives?
[ This Message was edited by: Jim Starluck on 2009-03-19 15:03 ]
|
|
This part is debateable, in fact, the K'luth are a HUGE exception to the common misconception that larger ships have a hard time killing small ships; because the truth is, it is actually EASIER to kill smaller ships with the Luths main weapon, the disrupter. With that being said, there really is no need for small ships in a K'luth fleet(not to undermine the incredible potential of K'luth frigates and destroyers).
[ This Message was edited by: -Sensitivity- [R33] on 2009-03-24 16:45 ]
_________________
Proud member of the Order of the Gaifen
Founder and former Club chair of the Shigernafy Fan Club
Co-founder of the Doran Judication Comittee
|
Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-03-24 17:13
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-24 14:33, Jim Starluck wrote:
Even a competent and skilled player should not be invincible, especially if and when the enemy is using teamwork and good tactics to tip the balance in their favor... Even the best player can't escape if the odds are stacked against them.
|
|
This is absurdity. There are, of course, no invincible K'luth. I would also like to point out that if you are using what you think are sound tactics, they are only as good as the enemies' inability to adjust to them. We generally do adjust. And quite honestly, I haven't seen many innovative tactics from either of the factions to deal with K'luth. You honestly only win when you have numbers, and have NO IDEA how many times we whip you when we are outnumbered.
Quote:
|
Admittedly, cloaking isn't THAT broken. Especially in the close-range Dreadnought slugging matches that dominate combat these days; it's easy to Ping and manually target when the ship you're shooting is big, slow and nearby. But even then they can frustratingly slip away, and with your healing you can patch up and come back for more.
|
|
We have cloak and an ahr. Ya'll have weapon specific armor. We can stay in the heat of battle about 30 secs in a dread. If we haven't killed the target by then, chances are we are hulled somewhere and have to jump or cloak, and heal or re-energize. Factor that in with the high energy drain, and the fact that once you cloak you still need a decent energy reserve as you manuver away cloaked at decent speed. Lose energy and lose cloak. Lose cloak, lose a ship. Therefore that same dread that was in a sluggfest has to bow out to ensure enough energy to escape. All that means that the other factions are actually able to be in the battle much longer than most any K'luth.
Quote:
|
Fixing dictors would make it a lot harder for ICC and UGTO to escape unscathed, but K'luth would still have cloaking, which would let them escape dictors with much more ease than their human counterparts.
|
|
This has always been the case. The way beacons are now, it would actually be more deadly than it used to be for a K'luth.
Quote:
|
I'm not looking to nerf cloaking, because the whole K'luth playstyle depends upon having a functioning and effective cloak, and I like that. I'm just looking to dampen its strength slightly.
|
|
Honestly, those two sentences make no sense to me. To "slightly" dampen it's strength is to nerf it. Did you really mean what you wrote there, or maybe I am missing the point....
Quote:
|
Instead of just entirely rejecting what I'm saying and insisting things are fine how they are, perhaps you could suggest a way to ensure Beacons wouldn't be too powerful.
|
|
Maybe you haven't read all of your own thread....
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-21 06:17, Azreal wrote:
I've suggested before, and I resuggest it here.
Make beacons detectable by anyone with a scanner, that no-purpose gadget that almost everyone can use. Then, when a ship is beaconed, anyone with a scanner in the same system can turn on the scanner and pick up the beacon's signal.
On a cloaked ship, you wouldn't see the ship per say, but the beacon attached to it. You would then target the beacon and fire, but the beacon would have a certain time limit/maybe hitpoints.
Also, it should be made to where when you use a scanner, then anyone in the same system can see you, same as if a sub used sonar.
Also, tho this seems to be the desire, beacons are not ONLY for use vs Kluth. They are for tracking down ejumped ships of any faction. So stop trying to gear them as an anti-kluth weapon ONLY.
Unless of course, Kluth will get a weapon that nullifies UGTO armor, or one that nullifies ICC shields.
Az
|
|
Does that not qualify?
Az
*Edit*
I was just thinking. When I came back, everyone was telling the crying K'luth that cloak was just fine. Do a forum search, I'm too lazy to post the links atm.
The unanimous response (to which I agreed, btw) was that K'luth needed to learn how to hit and run and use cloak correctly.
Now, I would say K'luth use cloak precisely the way it is intended, meaning we choose the battle. That seems to only be understood by the older 'luthies that are returning. Now that we use it correctly, there have been many posts against it's "power". I find that an interesting turn of things....
Az
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2009-03-24 19:29 ]
_________________
bucket link
|
DarkScorpion
Marshal
Sanity Assassins
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 237
From: London England
| Posted: 2009-03-25 02:00
I agree with az on cloak its just fine apart from a few things that still confuse me like eccm slows your cloaking function ok that i understand but eccm slows you uncloaking WTF and Mr cloak bug still rears its ugly head but not everything works in DS i take that as a given and just get on with it.
Our cloaking has its prices combat wise i have mentiond before, do we build planets with ecm to help us cloack/uncloak or do we build platforms with sensors/planet sensors that work against us to protect planets
you already have the equipment needed to counter kluth so use them
crying about cloak when lets say your caught with your pants down farmin mir ai and a kluth uncloaks on your rear and frys you is what we do so i
suggest you all build a bridge and get over it.
P.S
Uber cloak is when you can fire cloaked you only know we are there is when you see the light show older players will remember those days
be thankfull that has changed.
[ This Message was edited by: DarkScorpion on 2009-03-25 02:36 ]
_________________
|
mannythepogs
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 140
From: mbllanes
| Posted: 2009-03-25 02:49
To make it short
ICC = shield
UGTO = Armor
Kluth = Cloak
We agree to the above,
Now, where in the 2 faction ICC and UGTO you can find to counter their special abilities.
Kluth has
1) PING
2) Beacon
3) ECCM de-cloaking signature countdown
4) OBserver mode
Now tell us about ICC (Shield) and UGTO (Armor) special abilites that we could counter.
1) Can we ping the armor/shield so it will be disable for split seconds. NO
2) Can we beacon you .. of course we can .. your visible already
3) Can we make your Shield/Armor do a countdown before it takes effect .. NO.
4) Observer mode.. you have 70% advantage on this and luth has 30% we're better of if they disable this.
Now you need a super beacon that would specifically target only Kluth..... toink
and HAM .. lol.. get inside MV.. you havent spent much time in 1.5 get into battle and see what we mean.
[ This Message was edited by: mannythepogs on 2009-03-25 02:50 ]
_________________
|
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2009-03-25 03:24
Quote:
|
On 2009-03-25 02:49, mannythepogs wrote:
Now, where in the 2 faction ICC and UGTO you can find to counter their special abilities.
|
|
To make it fair, I think EMP Cannons do more damage to shielding than regular weaponry. So there are anti-ICC weapons as well. And the K'Luth do possess enough firepower to tear through shields as though they are paper, and even with Reflective Armour, the UGTO're hard-pressed to stand long against K'Luth volleys.
_________________
|
|
English
Deutsch
Nederlands
)
