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A classic DS post. |
Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
|  Posted: 2009-04-05 01:08
Recently, there is a cold war between players in game and also on forum. People seems to love making flame threads or response to directly a person to blame every exploit ,game error or game function like his/her own fault while staff takes no action on current problems . And I feel like this is going no where good for integrity of this community.
Due small player base we have , everyday we have to fly against same names and all over the same conversation after each battle. Some of them starts with a funny joke and gets a /y war ,then people carries it on forum.
Lobby campers also seems to enjoy jumping in threads which are related to game mechanics and this makes things more flamed. People has rights to whine at whatever they do dislike and they want to be heard by staff. But, again, this is going nowhere until some or one staff member clears things for the community.
So,
Things to clear by staff:
There is alot of discussion about kluths cloak. Is cloak meant to be like this or are our enemies have right to whine about it because it has a uber bug which works really well for kluth?
Another one . Can kluth blockade a planet in the same way ugto and icc do or we cant blockade a planet because we are hit and run faction?
Using a shipyard several times to get a good spawn point depends on where is enemy is abusing/exploiting game function or not?
When a ship spawn at a transfer gate and kills an enemy ship while waiting on his/her jump drive to charge,is it gate camping or not?
Tranny and extractor rush a planet is abusing the dictor bug or not?
After you spent more than half of your jump drive (which makes you log off from the game too because u cant go back to nearest depots or planet) to track an hurt enemy station , if station player logs off and goes 50 gu speeds while log off process ,is it a bug/exploit or is it meant to be like that?
People that had 50k less prestige than I , now have 50k more prestige than I do because of procyon /luyten Ai farms(consedering i play this game everyday), is it exploiting the game as people used to do in 483 or is it meant to be like that?
If you have more questions that i dont remember right now please feel free to post.
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befuddled
Fleet Admiral
Joined: December 01, 2002
Posts: 42
From: befuddled
| Posted: 2009-04-05 06:35
Quote:
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On 2009-04-05 01:08, Pakhos wrote:
People that had 50k less prestige than I , now have 50k more prestige than I do because of procyon /luyten Ai farms(consedering i play this game everyday), is it exploiting the game as people used to do in 483 or is it meant to be like that?
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I don't know that this is really a problem. Surely the skills and prez that you picked up playing cunning human players put you at a competitive advantage over those whose reflexes were honed against the predictable AIs. Pit yourself against a learner driver in a Lamborghini and I'm certain you'd still lose him in your rear view mirror. Like you've said, you play every single day - and it shows.
Conversely, I don't know whether I would have been able to receive my bombing and building badges quite as easily today as I did back in .480 in the scenarios.
Swings and roundabouts.
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\"Scissors are overpowered. Rock is fine.\" - Paper
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2009-04-05 07:58
A Cold War between lobbycampers and non-lobbycampers?
I'd say the gamers are stating their disdain for lobbycampers, and the lobbycampers are trolling everyone.
Not all gamers and not all lobbycampers, but the most vocal ones regarding this matter anyway, like the entire "There's a game beside the lobby?" crew.
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Winters Rapture
Fleet Admiral
United Nations Space Command
Joined: December 09, 2007
Posts: 355
| Posted: 2009-04-05 09:43
You are right pakhos, the admin/mod people really do need to tell us what is going on, and what can be done and what can't be done.
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Time for revenge. . .
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Supertrooper
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 18, 2004
Posts: 1895
From: Maryland, U.S.A
| Posted: 2009-04-06 00:33
I opened this hoping it would be one of Ash's rants, Rogue's Stories, or GothThug's BAWWWs.
You dissapoint me.
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-04-06 08:59
I'll try to answer this (or what I can of it) tonight. Sorry for the delay.. haven't really had enough time to put together a coherent answer yet.
.. just so you know we're not intentionally ignoring it.
[ This Message was edited by: Shigernafy on 2009-04-06 08:59 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-04-09 02:16
Alright, finally have something to say to this. It took longer than I expected to find time for myself as well as coordinate with the other staff; sorry about that, but I've been extremely busy this week and was having trouble finding time to think about this myself, much less talk to other staff. In any case, here's some answers for you.
Is cloak meant to be like this or are our enemies have right to whine about it because it has a uber bug which works really well for kluth?
By "this" I assume you mean the general way that cloak acts - that you can appear and disappear with impunity and are generally able to get off a volley or three and then disappear quickly, generally avoiding much retaliation. Plus, when cloaked you can repair your hull and armor and come back stronger than humans without a balanced fleet - or stealthfully trade off with other Kluth in tag-team hit-and-run maneuvers. If performed well, this can be hard for humans to deal with.
If that is indeed what you meant, then that is the general plan for K'Luth. There is no bug. We aren't entirely convinced that this is the ideal balance and thus may tweak cloak (or autorepair, or armor, or whatever really) in the future, but K'Luth is operating, by and large, as its intended.
Can kluth blockade a planet in the same way ugto and icc do or we cant blockade a planet because we are hit and run faction?
There's no bias in the code explicitly against K'Luth, but blockading works based on the number of ships detected around a planet. Since K'Luth aren't generally sitting around visible, the blockade code is much less likely to work for them. But if you were to fly around uncloaked, you'd have the same chance of blockading a planet as an enemy human player would.
Using a shipyard several times to get a good spawn point depends on where is enemy is abusing/exploiting game function or not?
It is playing the system instead of the game and misusing a game function. We're looking in to technical solutions and hope to have something implemented soon™. Palestar strongly discourages its use and requests players not use the SY improperly.
When a ship spawn at a transfer gate and kills an enemy ship while waiting on his/her jump drive to charge,is it gate camping or not?
No, its not gate camping or a violation of any Palestar rule or policy. Camping at a home gate is more of a problem, but we have safe zones to prevent them from being misused too much. With a transfer gate, I recommend you zoom in before you spawn and see if there are any ships nearby that may cause problems. Or use your faction chat to ask if anyone sees anything threatening. If you are destroyed upon spawning, use a different spawn point. If there are none in that constellation, well that sounds like a pretty good bonus to taking over the constellation to me. Go spawn in another system and come through the gate with your jumpdrive fully recharge. Go spawn in another system and bring assistance with you. Get friends to spawn simultaneously and fight back. As far as we're concerned, the only gates that may be a problem to camp around are the Home Gates (Bifrost, Shi Jie, and Sag'Keja); there are plenty of ways to deal with problems at other gates.
Tranny and extractor rush a planet is abusing the dictor bug or not?
Its certainly using the lack of dictors to your advantage, its not a violation of any policy. We don't have a policy requiring ships jump no closer than 1000gu from a planet in case the enemy team couldn't be bothered to put up a dictor. Even if they don't work, what would you like us to do? Think practically. Require all ship caps be in a destroyer? Require all ships stop their jump at 1000gu? While Dictors are bugged, there's nothing logical that can be done here...
Plus, its an extractor, for pete's sake. Defend your planets if you don't want to lose them. Shoot incoming players. Build more barracks. Carry more troops. Grab your own extractor and drop more infantry. There are plenty of solutions that don't require annoying and impossible-to-enforce rules.
That said, working dictors would be nice again...
After you spent more than half of your jump drive (which makes you log off from the game too because u cant go back to nearest depots or planet) to track an hurt enemy station , if station player logs off and goes 50 gu speeds while log off process ,is it a bug/exploit or is it meant to be like that?
I don't understand this question. You can log off to make your station go 50gu/s?
If you just mean logging off while you're jumping, that's not an exploit. If you mean something else, please explain further.
People that had 50k less prestige than I , now have 50k more prestige than I do because of procyon /luyten Ai farms(consedering i play this game everyday), is it exploiting the game as people used to do in 483 or is it meant to be like that?
Welcome to the Brave New World of DarkSpace.
[ This Message was edited by: Shigernafy on 2009-04-09 02:17 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Mersenne Twister on 2009-04-09 10:03 ]
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2009-04-09 03:28
Quote:
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On 2009-04-09 02:16, Shigernafy wrote:
<-removed->
" Thank you!"."
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After you spent more than half of your jump drive (which makes you log off from the game too because u cant go back to nearest depots or planet) to track an hurt enemy station , if station player logs off and goes 50 gu speeds while log off process ,is it a bug/exploit or is it meant to be like that?
I don't understand this question. You can log off to make your station go 50gu/s?
If you just mean logging off while you're jumping, that's not an exploit. If you mean something else, please explain further.
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"I have seen this effect, it is my observation that, when someone long-jumps, the nav screen, and local client, leaves a ghost at the last seen location(seen by the client), if you try to jump this person, they seem to be there but then the server connects you to them, and they ZOOM off seemingly at high sub-light speeds, just moving the player to the proper position. This has to do with the way position updates work and is not a log off exploit.
If anything it is exploiting the fact that the nav screen updates slower than human re-action time, so someone can quickly switch to the nav, and see where the last seen location is, after the ship has disappeared from sensor range, this makes short jump tracking very easy; BAN PAKHOS  .
Long-jumps just look weird when it happens, it's just the position updates, the player that jumped got away fair and square, that's all."
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People that had 50k less prestige than I , now have 50k more prestige than I do because of procyon /luyten Ai farms(consedering i play this game everyday), is it exploiting the game as people used to do in 483 or is it meant to be like that?
Welcome to the Brave New World of DarkSpace.
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"*Signed*"
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[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-04-09 03:55 ]
[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-04-09 03:56 ]
[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-04-10 07:06 ]
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-04-09 13:00
Quote:
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After you spent more than half of your jump drive (which makes you log off from the game too because u cant go back to nearest depots or planet) to track an hurt enemy station , if station player logs off and goes 50 gu speeds while log off process ,is it a bug/exploit or is it meant to be like that?
I don't understand this question. You can log off to make your station go 50gu/s?
If you just mean logging off while you're jumping, that's not an exploit. If you mean something else, please explain further.
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What i meant is, sometimes enemy stations jump away from battle at 10-20 % hull present . Well some of us are realy good tracer. So we jump to find the enemy station and most of the time we find it . The problem is , stations jump like 100k away to minimize the posibility to be tracked. So on warp , enemy starts to log off . So when we arrive the current location where station's warp is finished, it starts to go with a speed of 50 gu/second(i dont know why it is coded like this). Which we can not reach and fire, during 30 seconds or so . Then puff it is gone and same player in 2 mins returns in his station to a safe point to be repaired. If we dont have any supply, we cant go back to neareast planet to refill jd and we are forced to log off too (which is really annoying).
The point is , in earlier versions, when player used to log off, they were static after jump were complated. So if anyone with a little chance who could track the station , still had to chance to give the final blow on that enemy. Now we cant even catch station with scout which is in log off process. If they would log off for rest of the day , hence i would accept it. But they come back after 2 mins and this happens really often.
Btw thanks for your reply.
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2009-04-09 13:07
I can see how you may have missed my response to Shig's question about the log off at 50GU/s subject; so I'll repost it.
As a reply to Shigernafy's question about the 50GU/s log off. I wrote:
"I have seen this effect, it is my observation that, when someone long-jumps, the nav screen, and local client, leaves a ghost at the last seen location(seen by the client), if you try to jump this person, they seem to be there but then the server connects you to them, and they ZOOM off seemingly at high sub-light speeds, just moving the player to the proper position. This has to do with the way position updates work and is not a log off exploit.
If anything it is exploiting the fact that the nav screen updates slower than human re-action time, so someone can quickly switch to the nav, and see where the last seen location is, after the ship has disappeared from sensor range, this makes short jump tracking very easy; BAN PAKHOS .
Long-jumps just look weird when it happens, it's just the position updates, the player that jumped got away fair and square, that's all."
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Pakhos[+R]
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 1352
From: Clean room lab
| Posted: 2009-04-09 14:12
face/palm.
Looks like jbud thinks i exploit nav screen lag bug.
Wrong.
Jbud, to track someone , we jump 100k the same direction as enemy ship. if we see a red diamond then we break jump and the rest of the ships takes care of it.
I would be so glad to prove that on you if i can ever see you in mv more than once in a month.
Face/palm... again (still cant believe he thinks we need to exploit nav screen to track someone. )
better i am gonna put some glue on my palm for further cases.
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* Josef hands [PB]Quantium the Golden GothThug award for best melodrama in a miniseries...
[-GTN-]BackSlash: "Azreal is a master of showing me what is horribly broken in the game."
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2009-04-09 16:30
Quote:
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On 2009-04-09 14:12, Pakhos wrote:
face/palm.
Looks like jbud thinks i exploit nav screen lag bug.
Wrong.
Jbud, to track someone , we jump 100k the same direction as enemy ship. if we see a red diamond then we break jump and the rest of the ships takes care of it.
I would be so glad to prove that on you if i can ever see you in mv more than once in a month.
Face/palm... again (still cant believe he thinks we need to exploit nav screen to track someone. )
better i am gonna put some glue on my palm for further cases.
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You are reading the wrong part, that was a joke on my part, though there is a potential exploit to the nav map bit.
Read the part about the position updates...
Thank you.
I shall post it again as it seems i must drill it into your mind...
"" I have seen this effect, it is my observation that, when someone long-jumps, the nav screen, and local client, leaves a ghost at the last seen location(seen by the client), if you try to jump this person, they seem to be there but then the server connects you to them, and they ZOOM off seemingly at high sub-light speeds, just moving the player to the proper position. This has to do with the way position updates work and is not a log off exploit. ""
[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-04-09 16:32 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-04-10 01:27
Quote:
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On 2009-04-09 13:00, Pakhos wrote:
So when we arrive the current location where station's warp is finished, it starts to go with a speed of 50 gu/second(i dont know why it is coded like this). Then puff it is gone and same player in 2 mins returns in his station to a safe point to be repaired. If we dont have any supply, we cant go back to neareast planet to refill jd and we are forced to log off too (which is really annoying). |
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I don't really know why this happens, except if it were caused by a desync issue like JBud says -- but in that case, the ship should suddenly appear all the way in its new position, not head for it at 50 gu/s.
But its not coded that way on purpose. Your ship should stop when you finish jumping whether you log out or not during that jump; there's no code that I can find or know of that treats your ship any differently during those two minutes. So that's a very strange bug.
Also, the enemy logging and coming back after 2 minutes fresh and ready to go can be annoying.. but two minutes was the balance we tried to strike to let you reconnect if you are accidentally disconnected, leave a ship around long enough in case of strategic disconnect (like you describe, for example) that damage can still be done, but not so long that if you just want to change servers or lose your connection (ie, legitimate reasons) that your ship isn't hanging around waiting to die when you can't control it.
The legitimate uses are such that we're not likely to change it. The "playing the system" uses are handy for those who wish to use it that way, but it's not likely to change.
Quote:
| Btw thanks for your reply. |
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My pleasure - i hope you didn't get the impression we were blowing you off. Sorry again that it took so long.
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JBud
Marshal
Joined: February 26, 2008
Posts: 1900
From: Behind you.
| Posted: 2009-04-10 11:14
Quote:
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On 2009-04-10 01:27, Shigernafy wrote:
I don't really know why this happens, except if it were caused by a desync issue like JBud says -- but in that case, the ship should suddenly appear all the way in its new position, not head for it at 50 gu/s.
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Okay, I'm sure that is what is intended, and I know you well enough you may not have seen this effect otherwise, since you don't play often, The ship is supposed to disapear when it is moved, and it does for you. but the client on the other end sees it moving at rediculously high speeds inbetween the points*. Basically the position updates seem to run you smoothly thru when a connection is lost, and when the ship is removed it's possible that it just runs the player smoothly to the repositioned side, My discussion with Maverick when we were testing the gate bug (the one that kills you) I showed him this effect and he said in the code, it is only on the other clients side and doesnt effect your ship, thus is a low priority bug.
*An observation of mine is that it is a possibility that it is removing you at some point between these points and when it is supposed to readd you it spawns you in the wrong place, (remember the bug where you went thru a gate and it sent you to deep space) It is a possibility this bug is still there and the fix was just to reposition you to the right place, it happens in a fraction of a second on your end but because of the way position updates work, it shows visually on the other end.. Try watching someone of your faction go thru a gate and come back thru, it is strange.
[ This Message was edited by: JBud on 2009-04-10 11:30 ]
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Shigernafy
Admiral
Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 5726
From: The Land of Taxation without Representation
| Posted: 2009-04-10 12:25
Well, I guess I've seen that in cases where ships do the rubber band effect .. i just thought it was still faster than 50gu/s , but maybe I'm just taking Pakhos too literally and that's all he means - they fly off at impossible speeds, too fast to follow but not as fast as jumping?
Is that all you mean, or are there multiple speeds ships appear to go when they are updating their position?
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