| Author |
Proposals relating to Ultimate Worker (Kluth special third supply) |
Satenki
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 9
|  Posted: 2009-06-25 16:07
The Ultimate Worker seems designed for more of a combat role compared to the Advanced Worker. I rather like that this helps it distinguish it further from the Advanced Worker, and I think it's great, though I was rather surprised at how differently it plays when I first got the ship after using advanced worker. 
1) The general consensus currently is that the Advanced Worker is better, due to having 4xECM, allowing it to operate much more effectively as a worker ship in a fleet, since it will be much less likely to be detected and harassed.
Adding ECM slots on the Ultimate Worker would help it perform in a worker capacity. It would be nice if it could avoid harassment when deciding to serve in a purely worker role in a fleet. 4x might be too much, though, given that it has real weapons. Maybe 1 or 2? It should just have enough to have a decent chance of staying hidden while repairing quietly, and not be hidden when firing weapons. It should not have enough ECM that everyone uses it instead of Advanced Worker, IMO.
2) Can we please have the Fore-only Organic Armor plate be placed on the outermost layer instead of the innermost layer like in every other ship? The current set up is Fore-only on the inside, Fore+Left+Right+Aft plate on the outside. Since the other armor plate compromises the armor in all direction when being hit from the front, having the Fore-only plate be in the innermost layer seems significantly less useful.
Basically, the current setup encourages "if you're under heavy fire and being overwhelmed, fly at your enemy". (?!). Because your only armor left will be at the front
The reverse would make a lot more sense. "Approach the enemy with the rest of your fleet when you are fresh and unharmed, retreat when under fire".
Having the Fore-only armor on the outside lets you last longer before being forced into retreat mode. It will fit the playstyle better because it will allow more freedom to perform evasive maneuvers if your last remaining armor plate is the one in all directions instead of in the front only.
3) As a combat oriented ship, especially since it is not designed to provide it's own ECM cover, it could probably use a better turn rate. Without heavy ECM cover, and especially when firing weapons, it needs some amount of agility to survive. It also needs the agility to perform in the combat side of its combat worker role as a lightly armored somewhat small ship with mainly forward facing weapons.
Right now, it feels like it has all the agility of a cruiser, but with armor much weaker than a cruiser.
4) Whenever I die, I usually end up with all my modules heavily/completely damaged. For some reason, Reload Drones always seems to be last in queue, and cloak is mid to last. I end up having to manually find/bump Reload Drones in the repair queue after respawning, so that I can actually get onto repairing. It would be great if Reload Drones and to a lesser extent cloak could be given greater priority in the repair queue, since there isn't really any good reason anyone would want to choose otherwise.
5) Another torpedo launcher and one less disruptor might be nice.
6) Last but not least, and this applies to all workers, not just Ultimate Worker. On behalf of every other supply ship pilot I've talked to, Can we have the ability for supply ships to synthesize reload drones using resources in cargo? Perhaps at a rate of 2-4 resources consumed per reload drone created. I think the rate should be inefficient enough that it would take some effort to reload, to avoid having workers be permanently oversupplied with reload drones. When this is impemented, perhaps the reload drones module capacity could be lowered to 1000 from 1500 to better encourage usage of this new feature.
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-26 01:26 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-26 10:23 ]
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Sens [R33]
Admiral
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 1020
From: Edge of th...
| Posted: 2009-06-25 16:15
advanced worker has 4 ecms, different ships different roles
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Satenki
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 9
| Posted: 2009-06-25 16:26
Indeed, 4x ecm on the ultimate worker would definitely be inappropriate. I don't want to see Ultimate Worker as a replacement for Advanced either (despite the suggestive naming lol)!
However, no ecm combined with its very poor handling makes it a sub-par ship for its role. At the very least I think it should have 1 ecm. Even with 2, I think it might not be as good as an advanced worker in performing the supply role, especially in a fleet with so much firepower that your weaponry is insignificant.
I'll leave this to the judgement of more experienced players though..
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-25 16:36 ]
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Sops
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 490
| Posted: 2009-06-25 19:22
Quote:
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On 2009-06-25 16:07, Satenki wrote:
4) Whenever I die, I usually end up with all my modules heavily/completely damaged. And it takes ages to repair to a useful state after respawning (Is it my imagination, or does it seem longer than the other ships I've flown..?), with all modules dead. For some reason, Reload Drones always seems to be last in queue, and cloak is mid to last. I end up having to manually find/bump Reload Drones in the repair queue after respawning, so that I can actually get onto repairing. It would be great if Reload Drones and to a lesser extent cloak could be given greater priority in the repair queue. |
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You can change the order yourself.
Everything else you have discribed sounds like the UGTO and ICC supply ships, why you think K'Luth need an enhanced combat supply I don't know.
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Satenki
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 22, 2009
Posts: 9
| Posted: 2009-06-26 00:44
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Everything else you have discribed sounds like the UGTO and ICC supply ships, why you think K'Luth need an enhanced combat supply I don't know.
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They have one, lol. It seems to be the K'Luth replacement for not having an advanced engineering ship? But nobody uses it because it is worse than the Advanced Worker as fleet support, even though it has higher requirements. This is a bit of an issue, as it becomes rather like the K'Luth have an overall halved engineering build rate for not much utility in return.
Even though the Ultimate Worker has its distinct role from the Advanced Worker, it is currently somewhat awkward at fulfilling either part of that role at the moment.
In a large fleet, the Ultimate Worker has trouble staying alive and repairing.
Sure, I guess you can try to hide behind a large friendly ship, since you're nice and visible, but even that takes some measure of agility to be able to do well enough to be supporting the fleet instead of supporting yourself. If the enemy comes looking to cripple your fleet, and looks for supply ships, it'll see the ultimate worker, but won't see the advanced worker. The ultimate worker does not really have tough defenses, and unlike other ships with similar levels of defense, is not very good at dodging fire. It would have to leave the engagement much sooner than the advanced worker would, currently.
I think it is unfair to say that just because it fights, it should belong to the fighting races due to K'Luth presumably being not meant to fight and are just supposed to hide. That would be pretty ridiculous. If the K'Luth only hide, there won't be a fight. And you'll grow bored trying to look for them 
With no ECM slots, the ultimate worker definitely seems to be not meant for the same type of stealth support that the advanced worker is. And we all know how K'Luth organic armor is weaker than UGTO armor and ICC shields. And without the benefit of stealth that the advanced worker has, it needs some staying power!
And yes, you're right, I can just change the repair order myself. But then it just becomes an unautomated repetitive task, ie. busywork. There isn't really any reason anyone would want not to order the repair drones first. Not really a super major issue, but rather just a suggestion for a nice touch
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-26 01:45 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-26 02:07 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Satenki on 2009-06-26 02:18 ]
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Eledore Massis [R33]
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: May 26, 2002
Posts: 2694
From: tsohlacoLocalhost
| Posted: 2009-06-26 10:27
Just wanted to drop a line on this one.
Quote:
| On 2009-06-26 00:44, Satenki wrote:
And yes, you're right, I can just change the repair order myself. But then it just becomes an unautomated repetitive task, ie. busywork. There isn't really any reason anyone would want not to order the repair drones first. Not really a super major issue, but rather just a suggestion for a nice touch |
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Yes it would be nice if you can preset a list of devices you want repaired first.
Heck even three lists that you can switch on command. v1.530 ?
But currently whats gets damaged first gets repaired first.
Because some devices have a higher hit points or failure rate. Or might even be on the other side of the ship where the weapons has hit, those devices might just get added a split second later.
In addition, if you can get yer drones repaired, Shift+Y and count to 3 and all yer systems are repaired.. and that is not even including the K'Luth AHR. (ok you don't have that on the advanced worker).
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Mersenne Twister
Fleet Admiral
Joined: May 11, 2003
Posts: 1161
From: Sector C Test Labs and Contol Facilities
| Posted: 2009-06-26 12:40
extra ECM
the Ult Worker was intended as a combat-capable supply ship (worker and adv worker being rough analogs to icc/ugto's light and heavy supply ships respectively, albeit with a more support-oriented role in the case of the adv worker) which is why it has the weaponry that it has, to be able to function as a support ship in combat (much like the icc/ugto light supplies were given increased weapons for), where as the worker&adv. are more suited to repairing out of combat to get damaged ships back in the fight faster.
while an EW slot isnt a wholly unreasonable request, they cant be added without removing another device. the question is, what are you willing to give up for it?
another factor to consider is teamwork (blasphemy and heresy, i know). adding too much EW slots to too many ships reduces their need for teamwork in order to move covertly, which is partly why we have dedicated EW ships (anti sensor scout, sensor frigate, and the adv worker if you want to call it an ecm boat). ideally, you'd have enough players providing ecm cover to suit the needs of the assembled fleet and the situation.
armor order
i cant recall having ever seen any mechanism that dictates exactly which armor is "inside" or "outside". but ill look into it. no promises though.
turn rate
all supply ships have the same basic turn rate, which is largely dependent on their mass which is between destroyers and cruisers (essentially a "middle of the road" setting). other devices (such as armor, which are heavier than shields) also influence turn rate to some degree. also, kluth can cloak, which can give the more sluggish ships time to turn around and reposition. i dont think we'll be changing the supply's turn rate any time soon.
repair queue
this has to do with individual gadget HP, and the amount of damage it has taken. kluth auto repair partially compensates for this, especially for supply ships. since repair drones can still function even at 1%, you can generally hit shift+y when you respawn and get your system back online in short order.
[ This Message was edited by: Mersenne Twister on 2009-06-26 12:42 ]
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