| Author |
Message to the dev's |
Sardaukar
Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 1656
|  Posted: 2009-06-29 14:45
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On 2009-06-29 11:17, Bardiche wrote:
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QFT (I think Bard mixed up active and reactive in that post, though)
Seeing Bard's assault cruiser fight my torpedo cruiser while we both stood still highlighted that defense values themselves aren't too bad- I badly hulled him, but his shield rotation kept him afloat while my fore armor arc eventually withered and my JD failed sooner than expected. Likewise, once we had dictors up, I got an MD out and was happy to see that the IT missiles seemed, if anything, even more potent. Maybe it's just from the time I've spent away from the ship.
The only real complaint I can muster is shield regeneration. If some multiplier was activated out of combat, or supply ships could, say, "re-energize" shields (slowly but still better than nothing (or at a capped rate), to prevent people sitting at a depot world and rotating to one invincible facing).
Well, there's also the issue of ICC in the early game. Having only one clear-cut combat ship out of the shipyard is sort of terrible. As Jim suggested, splitting the Assault Frigate into a true Assault Frigate similar to the Assault Corvette, and a Missile Frigate for ICC flavoring, would be quite nice.
[ This Message was edited by: Sardaukar on 2009-06-29 14:52 ]
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Thorium
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 05, 2004
Posts: 185
| Posted: 2009-06-29 15:14
my problems with luth
too little front and rear armor. rear armor more for the problem with damage ment for the forward arc going to the rear arc. front armor because it is the arc most useful to fire from
wepons on rear mounts. always thought this was useless. 2 cannon and 2 rupters? realy what is the point? much rather have them on the foreward only. yes i know the other factions have the same,
the mixing of long and short... luth missile boats dont need that much (if any) PD. cloak is very useful in the place of PD.
just like luth attack ships dont need long range missiles. got several cruisers and destroyers that need the roles deffined (long or short, missiles or torps, cannon or rupters)
i to would like to see more damaging alphas and longer recharge but i can see the problem of one hitting small targets.
missile in general, the long arc when fired. sure it looks good but it does nothing for hitting a target. in fact the shorter the range the more you miss because of the arc. i fail to see why the missiles cannt just fire strate out the front
edit
just had to add, imo luth should be attacking or loseing. ship roles should tightly deffined.
and ive got to agree with the thought that fighter bombers in general should just be removed so the role of the bomber and tranny will be used once more
[ This Message was edited by: Thorium on 2009-06-29 15:25 ]
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Daedalus Bum
Marshal
Joined: March 26, 2004
Posts: 86
From: Finland
| Posted: 2009-06-29 15:35
Was gona try out the new Patch, but after ive read all this no way 
Just gona wait for the next patch and read the forums then again
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2009-06-29 15:43
Quote:
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On 2009-06-29 15:35, Daedalus Bum wrote:
Was gona try out the new Patch, but after ive read all this no way
Just gona wait for the next patch and read the forums then again
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3/10, you actually made me consider responding. Troll took a while to register.
And I might've, Sard, I haven't paid any attention to the names of my devices in ages.  I think Active is the slow regen shielding?
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2009-06-29 23:55
re: 2 cloaks
okay, fine, but instead of just trashing the idea: it can use little energy but have a long, long reload time and can only run for 30 seconds. there, fixed. do you still have a problem with it?
really people, be creative not negative.
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Lark of Serenity
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: June 02, 2002
Posts: 2516
| Posted: 2009-06-29 23:57
also, el guapo:
A) respect. learn it, cherish it, or get the hell out. this is darkspace not battlenet. grow up.
B) many of your kluth compadres seem to disagree with you about the death sentence thing. a lot of things in DS involve dying terrible deaths, ive had my fair share over the years. i dealt with it, offered suggestions when i thought i knew how it could be fixed, but i never gave up. what good does it do precisely?
Edit:
C) Faustus* fixed.
[ This Message was edited by: Lark of Serenity on 2009-06-29 23:58 ]
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Admiral Larky, The Wolf
Don't play with fire, play with Larky.
Raven Division Command - 1st Division
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2009-06-30 01:58
I must add i also agree with the point made above about mix of weapons on kluth ships.
Destroyers with missiles just don't feel right on K'luth. But evidently i am still savliating over the "old" Drainer.
BTW does anyone feel like ELF is far less efficient? Maybe because energy use is increased while ELF stayed the same.. Just a feeling
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2009-06-30 02:21
Re: About shields
The problem i see mostly is that of combat readyness. Note i didn't talk about shields being "weak", i am complaining about slow recharge times compared with all other timers in the game. Like Hull repair. It does seem strange that your ship is fully fixed WAY before your shields are back up, let alone the comparison to factions that can repair armor.
Now the team has often given a clear "NO" to supplyable shields. So i was trying to draw up something else.
Obviously it will be very hard to balance out since where player interaction is required (combat supplies) or a retreat is required (depots etc) to repair armor, an on-ship solution would work all the time, under any conditions.
So essentially if you bring up recharge rates you give ICC a "free" bonus over all other factions. And after all UGTO are supposed to have the biggest staying power, not ICC.
Therefore my proposal towards a *step one*: Easier rotation, not much more overall shield "capacity" that has the added bonus of being balancable more easily because you reduce the amount of values to fiddle with to that of shield generators.
I would have to point out my original idea had *no* recharge of shields on their own, all power would come from the (now aux, then just) shield generator(s). This got scrapped for some reason from my post. (IDNR why)
Please, this really seems to make sense to me. Try to shoot it down.
Re: K'luth
- Survivability:
Raising the HP on core systems like AHR and cloak instead of raising Hull or anything else as suggested above. Seems like an excellent idea to me.
- Heavy cloak being useless/OP because of energy/etc:
Heavy cloak is meant to provide a small window of safety.
If you spent all your energy on strikes already or are planning to strike the second before you simply *should not use Heavy Cloak*. This works towards balancing it.
The Heavy cloak would be useful to get out of a SNAFU or jump directly into interdiction range, then move on and recharge on sig cloak, or to use to exit the battlefield in an emergy IF you have the energy, which would not be the case if you have been fighting any significant amount.
It is *not* meant as a *get away from combat free* card. If you already have spent your energy, it was your decision to make. If you decide to sneak up directly towards the enemy with heavy cloak instead of sig cloak, it was your decision.
IMHO the energy argument is therefore invalid.
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Coeus
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: March 22, 2006
Posts: 2815
From: Philly
| Posted: 2009-06-30 03:33
Ok, so I haven't read more than a few bits from a few varied posts throughout this thread, let me just get that out of the way.
I ask this question, which I doubt will be answered by anyone competant to give an actual answer but I'll ask anyway.
Would it be possible to give the ICC Resupply ships (IE: Player piloted, not AI) a device which specifically recharges shields (say, a 50% to 75% bonus to shield recharge), but is variable dependant on the number of [b]active players in the zone[/u] and could be augmented by enhancements?
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ICC Security Council Chief Enforcer
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Pope
Fleet Admiral
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 2449
From: World of tomorrow
| Posted: 2009-06-30 03:38
No.
=p
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AdmBito
Grand Admiral
Sundered Weimeriners
Joined: October 04, 2002
Posts: 1249
From: Its hard out here for a pimp
| Posted: 2009-06-30 03:56
Quote:
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On 2009-06-29 14:45, Sardaukar wrote:
Seeing Bard's assault cruiser fight my torpedo cruiser while we both stood still highlighted that defense values themselves aren't too bad...
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Full disclosure: I skipped the second page completely, and chose to highlight only a small piece of this to make my point, but...
When was the last time two cruisers sat still and fired at each? Any competent UGTO pilot will keep his foe on the facing with the most armor. That, plus higher hit point for the armor more than even out the shield rotation. Last I saw (and again, this is an extremely small sample size) the chosen method of "modding" was to use two reactive shields on the flanks for their recharge times. Will this not give the ICC cruiser a significant disadvantage to available hit points for the battle(s)?
Id like to think of mobility as a modifer in this discussion.
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Lithium
Chief Marshal
Joined: June 29, 2003
Posts: 109
| Posted: 2009-06-30 04:09
I have an idea to solve icc shields take too long to recharge in non combat problem.
New function "Reset All Shields".
It turns off all shields for 30 seconds then recharge all shields to 100% immediately.
It needs 100% energy to activate.
It keeps draining all energy while resetting.
However it doesn't disable Engines, weapons and JD while this sequence.
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Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
| Posted: 2009-06-30 04:41
Quote:
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On 2009-06-30 03:56, AdmBito wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-06-29 14:45, Sardaukar wrote:
Seeing Bard's assault cruiser fight my torpedo cruiser while we both stood still highlighted that defense values themselves aren't too bad...
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Full disclosure: I skipped the second page completely, and chose to highlight only a small piece of this to make my point, but...
When was the last time two cruisers sat still and fired at each? Any competent UGTO pilot will keep his foe on the facing with the most armor. That, plus higher hit point for the armor more than even out the shield rotation. Last I saw (and again, this is an extremely small sample size) the chosen method of "modding" was to use two reactive shields on the flanks for their recharge times. Will this not give the ICC cruiser a significant disadvantage to available hit points for the battle(s)?
Id like to think of mobility as a modifer in this discussion.
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When you have a Torpedo Cruiser on your six, you want to turn down your engines, since you're not going to outrun it. If that Torpedo Cruiser does the same, you're at an impasse: first one to move is going to have the other on their intimate six. And unlike the TC, the AC does not have its six guarded by armour, only shielding. :p
You raise a good point, though, which begs the question: are the ICC supposed to be able to last longer on sheer defensive power alone? I like to think they can do so right now, since being able to divert part of their defense greatly assists their ability to block concentrated fire (somewhat). A smart ICC pilot also lets armour soak up some damage first before activating shielding to prevent unnecessary energy loss, and guard the armour as it repairs again.
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Banshee
Grand Admiral
Raven Warriors
Joined: August 28, 2001
Posts: 2181
From: Philadelphia, PA
| Posted: 2009-06-30 06:27
Quote:
| Been playing this game on and off since the open beta love it but...you are killing the faction I have played for 5 plus years... |
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Really now. So you have always played K'luth? Even in the open beta?
Well then, shouldnt you realise that once upon a time, they had no armour? remember that ECCM drained energy? drained energy = cloaking failure?
K'luth have always had it better since their intended original incarnation.
But like you say, go back to basics, the REAL basics, the time when Kluth took REAL skill to play, fight and win with.
Not these children tossing out their toys because they cant go head to head with Dreads in Destroyers anymore.
Sheesh.
[ This Message was edited by: Banshee on 2009-06-30 06:31 ]
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El Guapo
Chief Marshal
Joined: February 24, 2004
Posts: 276
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
| Posted: 2009-06-30 07:05
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On 2009-06-29 23:57, Lark of Serenity wrote:
also, el guapo:
A) respect. learn it, cherish it, or get the hell out. this is darkspace not battlenet. grow up.
B) many of your kluth compadres seem to disagree with you about the death sentence thing. a lot of things in DS involve dying terrible deaths, ive had my fair share over the years. i dealt with it, offered suggestions when i thought i knew how it could be fixed, but i never gave up. what good does it do precisely?
Edit:
C) Faustus* fixed.
[ This Message was edited by: Lark of Serenity on 2009-06-29 23:58 ]
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a) respect, I really do not think respect has anything to do with this, nor is it something that is learned, respect is something that grows over time... I have to the most part gotten the hell out, and duh it does say Darkspace, all over the web pages and wtf is battlenet?
b) maybe they are right, maybe Silent is also right, I have always been a little agressive in my play, but for me it has been a death sentence I have done nothing but go backwards, I have lost an excessive amount of prez in such a short time, so maybe all I am doing is ranting, but you get in a K'luth ship and see how long you last, like I've stated some where the ships are lasting about 1/3 the time in combat... If you decloak you must recloak right away or you end up dead, maybe that is what I should have been doing, cloak, decloak do not shoot, repeat till dead...
c) As for Faustus, sorry to here that he was fixed, thought he would have wanted kids at some point in his life....
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