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Dark Space as a free to play MMO(premium membership based) |
Bardiche
Chief Marshal
Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 1247
|  Posted: 2009-09-27 20:20
It'd probably never happen, given the staunch opposition to making DarkSpace run off of any other form of payment.
Also, Sardaukar, you claim you are 'just saying'. But what are you 'just saying'?
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Kanman
Grand Admiral
Pitch Black
Joined: August 26, 2005
Posts: 1017
From: Virginia, United States
| Posted: 2009-09-27 20:44
Something my roommates and I used to say when playing chess and others would come along and offer suggestions for moves: "If the Senate was trying to control one of the teams, no one would have moved yet as their would be endless debate over the benefits and drawbacks of each possibility."
The point being that when many minds are forced to think strategically together, they come to a grinding lock, unable to do anything.
I say this because that is the way DarkSpace has been for the 4 years I have been around. People offer legitimate suggestions to better the game. These suggestions, like any changes, have benefits and drawbacks. The debate is always over the incalculable. People differ in opinion regarding the magnitude of the benefit compared to the magnitude of the drawback. As stated above, this inevitably leads to a lock up of progression in any manner, leaving us exactly where we started.
Allow me to offer an insight into this paradigm. We should stop comparing the value of changes with each other and start comparing them to our current situation.
As it stands, with no change, DarkSpace is fail. Absolute fail. Without question fail. Cannot-be-debated fail. With a couple dozen people at best in the lobby and less than 5 players in-game at any given point (Even during Free Trial Play), this cannot be proven any more clearly to be a failing system.
Given this insight, maybe the changes suggested in the original post will indeed benefit us, by drawing in more players, more regular players, and more interesting gameplay.... Then again, maybe it wont. However, if the change to standard/premium doesnt draw in more players, then we are no worse off than we are now. It literally cannot get worse without the game shutting down entirely and forever.
And to devs that want to tell us how this change wont be so easy as we make it out, because the code is written to blah blah blah: well im an electrical engineer. I know what it means to have things to do that arent easy, but god forbid you have to actually work to accomplish a goal.
You have 2 options. Bust your arse to make it the fail stop, or turn off the servers. They arent doing anything for anyone in their current state.
[ This Message was edited by: Kanman on 2009-09-27 20:46 ]
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-Shadowalker-™
Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: September 23, 2007
Posts: 709
From: Shadows
| Posted: 2009-09-27 21:06
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On 2009-09-27 13:11, Enterprise wrote:
Especially since having Vice Admiral means your first Dreadnought (and having a Dreadnought means you won the game).
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If you want to play UGTO or ICC yea, but if your faction is K'luth your SOL...
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Piotr-san
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 385
From: Poland
| Posted: 2009-09-27 21:31
This game has been slowly dying for a long time now. This is some kind of a solution. Will it work? Well I don't know but if it won't this game will die. Not even free trials bring players nowadays and I personally am enjoy darkspace less and less every new free trial, there are just not enough players and whoever thought AI could be fun was mistaken.
Now before someone says I'm negative or that I'm complaining , check out how long ago I've joined this game and for how long I've been coming back. This is the first time I'm thinking about giving away my account and just forgetting darkspace for good. This might not mean much but maybe it should.
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Raptus regaliter
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Julian Delphiki
Admiral
Joined: June 19, 2002
Posts: 170
| Posted: 2009-09-27 21:37
For free, I would think 1RA as the best option .. Gets the basic cruisers which is more than enough for free users. All dreads should be limited to subscribers, along with the TC/AC/Scale..
Possibly even tier-based..
Each would have other conditions/perks such as prestige gain percentage, enhancement limitations etc.
Free: Up to 1RA
Basic(2/m): Up to VA
Standard(5/m): Up to Admiral
Premium(10/m): Unlimited
Free still has decent ships for new players and would help with the dessy/cruiser to dread ratio since there will be a lot more people that use the free at least in the beginning.
Basic would be an affordable solution for most people, $24/year is nothin. This allows up to the most basic of dreads.
Standard would allow access to most dreads.
Premium would be for everyone that wants access to the "super dreads" and stations..
Again each tier would come with other perks/conditions like in the initial post. Say 80% prestige gain as free, 90% as basic, 100% as standard and 125% as premium along with certain enhancements reserved for premium(like the blue/purple etc)
This would make it so players can get to use decent ships as long as they want, and once they get the rank they can always go up a tier and pay more for the other ships.. This would allow players to get into the game and see what its all about, but still limit the stations/dreads to premium members. It also helps provide an affordable option for a lot of kids/teens that either cant/dont work, or whose parents refuse to pay $10/m for them. $2/m is something most kids/teens can get easily and provides access to the basic dreads. Gives people a taste of what they can have if they pay, which is essential as a lot of newbies dont get past destroyers in the 2-week trial that is currently offered.
This along with the voucher system could be really good for getting new members. Many people can't afford an additional $10/m for their friends to try the game for more than 2 weeks, but even $2 vouchers would be affordable to most that want to get more people here.
[ This Message was edited by: Julian Delphiki *P2* on 2009-09-27 21:38 ]
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Chewy Squirrel
Chief Marshal
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 304
From: NYC
| Posted: 2009-09-27 22:03
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On 2009-09-27 16:27, Captain Crim wrote:
What is this, Navyfield?
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I don't know anything about Navyfield, but a quick look up on it led me to believe it has a much larger player base than DarkSpace. Just taking a quick glance at the forums shows a community several times more active than this one. They must be doing something right,no?
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On 2009-09-27 20:09, Sardaukar wrote:
While this should not be taken as opposition to the idea (and this should not be taken as favor), I'd like to note that the rank of the OP is Vice Admiral. Not that this invalidates the point, just saying. Holding neutral on this one.
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Sorry i didn't mean to come off as having a personal agenda by picking the rank of Vice Admiral. It was just a suggestion i was throwing out there. But having read other people's posts, i agree it should be something like 1RA, to make dreads an extra incentive to upgrade to a premium membership.
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On 2009-09-27 21:37, Julian Delphiki *P2* wrote:
[tiered plan]
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While a tiered plan sounds good on paper, i can't help but feel that people are psychologically adverse to tiered plans. Consider the current debate on net neutrality and ISP's attempt at creating tiered plans for internet usage. A tiered plan may also create a large rift in terms of ability and capabilities between a person that can pay for a premium plan and someone who can't(that is a rift greater than the one created by a simple 2 tier plan anyway). I do like how it sounds, however, being able to pay only 24$ a year and fly dreads. It is definitely something worth considering in addition to my original suggestion.
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spatula
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 41
From: 192.168.1.1
| Posted: 2009-09-27 22:35
i love the idea, i also think 1stRA is a good rank to stop at because it allows access to cruisers meaning the premium players can have some people to play against that are in combat capable ships. those who are subbed now would probably continue and those that are not would make for better target practice than the AI. expanding the playerbase should be near the top of the list for things to do because a multiplayer game without players is destined to fail.
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knives234
Captain
Joined: September 27, 2009
Posts: 1
| Posted: 2009-09-27 23:22
As a long time on an off again player people is the main bane of the game. i think with decent mmorpg.com and massively.com ads or news leaks  this game could totally explode espically if the subs are 4.95 US
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-09-28 01:00
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On 2009-09-27 21:37, Julian Delphiki *P2* wrote:
Possibly even tier-based..
Each would have other conditions/perks such as prestige gain percentage, enhancement limitations etc.
Free: Up to 1RA
Basic(2/m): Up to VA
Standard(5/m): Up to Admiral
Premium(10/m): Unlimited
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I am honestly swayed by this. Very swayed. Like a man in the breeze.
Its almost a terrible way to boost numbers and bring down Dreadnought numbers. But effective. Infact, its actually almost a solution.
See, cruisers are good against dreadnoughts in numbers. And if you could play up to cruisers for free, then you would have alot of damn people in small ships.
Way more than the current paying people in their dreadnoughts.
Which means Dreadnoughts for the first time, might actually be vulnerable because there wont be nothing but just them.
I am so amazed at the simplicity of this that I am honestly stunned.
Put this in, and then to make the icing on the cake even sweeter, make smaller ships more effective against each other than Dreadnoughts are against them. Then by god, enjoy your game.
Other good benefits:
- Brings more players who can actually play and make a difference and have fun.
- More players in general gives an impression of a game that is actually worth staying and playing. This means even more people.
- People who are content with playing free enjoy playing free. People who want bigger things and see them in action will pay a smaller amount of money for a large boost.
- And people not satisfied with that can pay the maximum.
Altogether, bringing more people in. Which means, more fun for everyone.
This should have some small requirements though:
Any tiered payment system absoutely should at least make Free users reach up to 1RA but no later than VA. If it does reach up to VA, VA dreadnoughts got to be nerfed a little.
Should at the very least change the ability to make fleets a rank requirement at least at Admiral.
Players should be able to still gain prestige (but not rank), regardless of payment level. However, prestige should be at a reduced rate if it goes beyond the max rank of their payment. Such as, someone who plays for Free can still gain prestige after 1RA but only at 50% of the rate or something.
This is to create incentive to keep people playing who like to play for free but don't want to feel like there is nothing still to work forward to.
But doesn't make it easy.
Go me, the callous bastard.
Anyways. Unlimited users really shouldn't get any more basic gameplay features than everyone else (such as locking or unlocking planets). If people get most of the game's experience without being casterated it helps them enjoy it.
Now I know perhaps Faustus or other cynical folks might think, well if they have most of the game for free, why pay $10 for a little more?
Because of a few things:
Darkspace right now doesn't have a flood of subscribers, but coincidentally those who do already pay $10 a month are those who do already enjoy their big ships.
By opening up smaller ships to free accounts you lose nothing.. Infact, you gain a ton. You gain the fact that you invite people to play, have fun in a free enviorment where they are not gimped, and get to enjoy the game for it, and then possibly pay a smaller fee for some bigger ships.
Which is way more than Darkspace is getting now.
However Its sad to note this, for the $5 jump to Unlimited, assault dreadnoughts and stations may actually have to be buffed a little.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2009-09-28 02:46 ]
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Fattierob
Vice Admiral
Joined: April 25, 2003
Posts: 4059
| Posted: 2009-09-28 08:02
After ceasing to be a cynical man and reading this thread...
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On 2009-09-27 21:37, Julian Delphiki *P2* wrote:
Possibly even tier-based..
Each would have other conditions/perks such as prestige gain percentage, enhancement limitations etc.
Free: Up to 1RA
Basic(2/m): Up to VA
Standard(5/m): Up to Admiral
Premium(10/m): Unlimited
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I have to agree with Enterprise - This is a *very* interesting idea that should be looked into more. The only problem I see is if people want to switch between basic/standard/premium during a month - do they have to wait until their current subscription runs out, or do they immediatly switch over and lose time?
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Mithrandir
Chief Marshal
Joined: October 22, 2001
Posts: 1276
| Posted: 2009-09-28 11:24
And once everyone has determined that cruisers are fun in groups, and dreads are once again vulnerable... why bother to sub?
I'm not saying its without merit, but your own argument implies that it is very appealing to play without a subscription. This implies that there will be a disincentive to subscribing.
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Julian Delphiki
Admiral
Joined: June 19, 2002
Posts: 170
| Posted: 2009-09-28 11:37
Well then limit free to 2ra. make 1RA the 2/m. 2ra really has no great cruisers. Itll at least get people coming. People will always want to fly dreads/stations even if there are cruisers. The free players on each team can protect the dreads with cruisers so they wont be completely useless ships.
Rather than just shooting down every idea, why don't the admin come up with something that may help? Because right now inaction is what will ultimately kill DS.
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Piotr-san
Chief Marshal
*Renegade Space Marines*
Joined: July 18, 2002
Posts: 385
From: Poland
| Posted: 2009-09-28 11:48
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On 2009-09-28 11:24, Mithrandir wrote:
And once everyone has determined that cruisers are fun in groups, and dreads are once again vulnerable... why bother to sub?
I'm not saying its without merit, but your own argument implies that it is very appealing to play without a subscription. This implies that there will be a disincentive to subscribing.
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There already is a disincentive to subscribing , its called lack of players and it cant get any worse. You could lower the rank to the basic cruisers or destroyers though.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-09-28 13:20
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On 2009-09-28 11:24, Mithrandir wrote:
And once everyone has determined that cruisers are fun in groups, and dreads are once again vulnerable... why bother to sub?
I'm not saying its without merit, but your own argument implies that it is very appealing to play without a subscription. This implies that there will be a disincentive to subscribing.
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As already said, there already is a great disincentive to subscribing. Dreadnought are overabundant, and incredibly powerful. It makes new players totally have no desire to keep playing in an enviroment where they have zero chance.
And why are they going to say, why am I going to pay $10 a month so that I can have no chance? They wont. They don't.
So they play for free during those crappy ranks. But they at least, wont be alone - they'll have a good amount of people as well.
And thats how Dreadnoughts were intended to be vulnerable - against that swarm of smaller ships. In this sense, it levels the playing field. And for some people, being a part of that swarm will be fun.
And for some people, watching those big ships in action that creates a huge amount of incentive. Dreadnoughts are seriously strong and impressive at the very least - and at the core of many people they just like playing with bigger things.
And instead of paying $10 a month for that small jump, they can only pay $5. Hooray. Alot of people would find that agreeable.
And then for $10, people who want everything the game has to offer, if they enjoy it that much, they can have it.
Still at the very least as said before, nothing is lost on this. You can only gain more players. I doubt existing subscribers are suddenly going to decide they don't like their overpowered ships anymore.
-Ent
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xplosiv
Fleet Admiral
Joined: October 10, 2007
Posts: 43
| Posted: 2009-09-28 13:29
So ultimately it is up to Faustus to be the man of action that he needs to be...
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