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Rogen's Rift |
-Daedalus-
Grand Admiral
Joined: September 26, 2006
Posts: 549
|  Posted: 2009-10-13 07:11
Bah I say as a new source of income Big F should setup a system were we can pay $$$ to buy the enhancments we want for a 1 time price.
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Code Red
Chief Marshal
Non Omnis Moriar
Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 184
| Posted: 2009-10-13 07:37
Bring back credits , remove RR and use credits to buy enh , loose the ship loose the enh nice and simple.
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Code Red, For winning in the 1RA Fleet Wars event, here's your coupon for a week.
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-10-13 13:14
Quote:
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On 2009-10-12 23:55, Azreal wrote:
That is another issue altogether.
Not one thing dealt with the issue in the thread.
Start another post and give your ideas on those things.
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It is the same issue though. It revolves around the very existence of these enhancements. If they were removed entirely then there wouldn't be this problem.
I agree with Ent. RR is not meant to be a PvE server, but a limited rank server for newer players to fight without the big ships getting in the way. If people don't want to truce then they don't have to. If one faction wants to completely dominate the server they have every right to.
Get rid of enhancements and people aren't gonna worry about whether or not they can farm AI, they're gonna worry about fighting each other. That's what this game is all about isn't it?
I used to be part of the truces as well. I have no problem with them. But you can't expect everyone to abide by them, and with more players comes a greater chance of no truce. Ultimately it's a competitive PvP game.
Get rid of enhancements  The game was fine without them.
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Leonide
Grand Admiral
Templar Knights
Joined: October 01, 2005
Posts: 1553
From: Newport News, Virginia
| Posted: 2009-10-13 15:07
Quote:
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On 2009-10-13 01:12, Enterprise wrote:
PvP game. PvP rules.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-10-13 15:15
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On 2009-10-13 13:14, MrSparkle wrote:
It revolves around the very existence of these enhancements. If they were removed entirely then there wouldn't be this problem.
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Faustus likes them. Far as I can tell most of the players like them. So I guess it's wait for some future version with the "next thing", hope (probably in vain) for some return to the past, or deal with them.
As they are in the game, and RR and Procyon is where you get them, then we're just trying to figure a way to do just that. Deal with them.
And Procyon is actually a PvE server. So don't begin to argue that point.
So pipe dreams about woulda, coulda, shoulda don't do much good.
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal
Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
| Posted: 2009-10-13 15:45
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On 2009-10-13 15:15, Azreal wrote:
And Procyon is actually a PvE server. So don't begin to argue that point.
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I dunno, I've had some pretty amazing PvP battles in Proc before.
Not anymore though, since prestige for AI was nerfed. Which is why is basically empty most of the time.
Only reason people come into RR is for the enhancements.
Everyone in this thread who wishes for RR to be PvE is for the reason that Elites are available to all, and thus the better enhancements.
But I disagree that this in the spirit of DS, so why not come up with an alternative? I honestly have no problem with them being easy to get, but I do have a problem with any sort of carebear action.
So my own alternative? It would be nice if there were a reason for planets to be fought over, so why not make it so specific enhancements can be gotten from planets.
Simply enough, every planet would let you mod on a set of enhancements, that cost resources. Common planets would let you put on Minor and Limited enhancements. Rarer planets would let you put on Enhanced and very specific ones would let you put on Advanced.
And you can always have unique enhancements drop from players.
This pretty much gives people good reason to capture planets (since most people like them) and it takes out the boring grind of AI for them. And no one gets left out. And gives people better reason to defend their planets.
Of course, people can always shoot AI for fun or profit if they want to.
-Ent
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2009-10-13 15:58 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Enterprise on 2009-10-13 15:58 ]
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Sliverine
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: November 23, 2006
Posts: 29
From: Singapore
| Posted: 2009-10-13 16:15
its becoming quite a messy debate here...putting your foot in from this point on is ill advised.
post at your own risk...
[ This Message was edited by: fatalerror on 2009-10-13 16:15 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2009-10-13 16:29
lol. Its not a messy debate at all. Its sound debate. Strong opinion.
At any rate, the reason I said Procyon was a PvE server is because Palestar said it was. On the last login message, it used to say something like "in addition there is challenging PvE action in the Procyon server. Can you stop the onslaught of the Mi?" or something to that effect.
And I am not argueing at all about whether we should get them from AI or players. Players in my and virtually everyone else's opinion that I know. But it is what it is. We have what we have.
Like life, you take what you have and you work with what you got. Maybe it's the Texan in me. Life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Or soak them in gas, insert a soaked rag, light them and thro them at the enemy. Never know, it might do some good damage.
So that still brings me back to: argueing any of that is pointless. Start another thread and do that.
I likr the enhancement idea too. Make a post for it too. 
[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2009-10-13 16:30 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-10-13 21:15
I don't think arguing any of that is pointless at all. It's obvious they're listening to players now, so if players start saying the game would be better without any emphasis on PvE they might take the hint.
If they don't want to get rid of enhancements altogether, then make the best enhancements drop from players only. RR and the elites just discourage PvP and split the players up amongst the servers. That's been my #1 complaint ever since RR was changed.
You should have to destroy a player to obtain the enhancements the elites drop.
So what to do about RR currently, if there's no truce? Deal with it Truces can't be forced on others.
Heck, remove RR and Procyon entirely too Since the AI prestige is nerfed it's not worth it. The game seems to have a lot more players now, but still not enough to warrant multiple MV servers. Not yet.
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2009-10-13 23:47
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On 2009-10-13 21:15, MrSparkle wrote:
Heck, remove RR and Procyon entirely too Since the AI prestige is nerfed it's not worth it. The game seems to have a lot more players now, but still not enough to warrant multiple MV servers. Not yet.
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Enterprise and I were discussing the spread out server issue, and AI etc.. Our similar thought proccess lead us to a pretty simple conclusion.
Home servers should be the only place for AI, the home servers should be "newbie friendly" They're pretty safe as they are now, with some "pirates" etc.. to help new players learn commands etc.. the basics of darkspace. No need to give them a whole 'nother server. Just lead them to the home servers, relativly safe areas where they can practice the basics of combat, repair, and engineering. Home servers then become RR, with some "elite" AI dropping minor/standard/enhacened enhacements. Mostly simple PvE
The Sag server should have No AI. Pure PvP combat. More advanced tactics, more advanced enhancements dropping from players. In addition to this, ent and I also belive that there should be a succession of required moves in the MV. A goal, something to work for rather than just fighting for the sake of fighting. Wining for the sake of not losing simply isn't enough. And losing in and of itself isn't enough motivation for some people. Enhacements seem to be a good motivator for lots of people. So make it so that as planets are capped, the more "High VAlue" planets you own, the more rare enhacements drop and or give a light at the end of the tunnel.
There should be a reward for winning. This is a game, but some people aren't motivated simply by being on the winning side. There needs to be an end result, something to strive for. Are enhacements that goal? If not? What else can the MV provide the "winners" and what are the conditions for winning??
All ideas that belong in another thread, but i'm tying them in here until I make a beta post with more concrete suggestions.
But now that we have 40, 50+ players in the MV, lets not have them spread out in Proc, RR, Ursa Minor, Scenario... we dont need all these severs. There should be 4 servers max. 3 Home servers, one main battle server
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Light404
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 10, 2002
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2009-10-14 12:41
^+1
This is where the mission system of old could come in handy, Sag could be like to old scenario servers but on a much larger and more fluid scale.
When you completed a set of objectives in the old scenarios, the game would end, move to another system and then begin again with a new set of objectives that follows a sort of storyline.
If certain planets were deemed important, capping all those planets, and holding them for say 1 hour would progress the story and a new goal would be set for that faction, and then they'd have to go capture some more strategically important planets and hold them as well, all the while their progress could be undone if another faction captures the planets from their last objective.
Kind of like the events that JBud used to organize, anyone who is online at the time would have a chance of winning some rare upgrades, the ones that only have a 1% chance of dropping, for example getting to the end say 5 Thari's weapon augments and 5 Zlygs weapon manufactorums could be up for grabs.
Of course the storyline would have to be long enough that it would take a week or so to complete, (but a dedication fleet could probably blitz through it in a couple of days, just because of the time required to hold planets while the politcal processes go to work) that way you dont log on a week from now and find that everyone has every unique and advanced enhancement in the game.
After that the MV would completely reset and a new story could begin again
[ This Message was edited by: Light404 on 2009-10-14 12:52 ]
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MrSparkle
Marshal
Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
| Posted: 2009-10-14 15:13
The biggest problem I see with that Krim (as I always play devil's advocate) is that players will join the team with the most planets and the best chance at rare enhancements.
I do like the idea of having actual motivation to capture planets, instead of the very simple idea of capturing one just to stir up commotion and stimulate combat. That's one of the things that made scenarios so great: There was reason to capture those planets, the ones with rare resources you needed for engineering or ships, or the flag planets that won the map, gave you bonus prestige, and brought a new map.
I don't know if tying enhancements to planets is a good idea. There's enough faction hopping going on as it is, right? (at least there used to be). Giving the winning team advantages like that just encourages faction hopping.
And not allowing faction hopping is equally bad. Forcing people to stick to just one faction is prohibitive (yet another thing I loved about scenarios: every new map you could be a different faction). It's really for another thread. For this problem of RR and elites, everyone is unfortunately stuck with it.
I personally think elites should be part of a mission system for low ranks only, with nothing to do with enhancements whatsoever. Enhancements should be dropped from players only, the bigger the ship the greater the chance of rares dropped, but every ship having a chance at dropping them, even scouts. Until then, gotta deal with farming elites for hours in RR, players that don't want to abide by any truces, a split player base etc.
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Hell Bender
Grand Admiral
K'Luth Revolution
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 117
From: Knoxville, Maryland USA
| Posted: 2009-10-14 18:52
Personally I think the game should revert to an earlier time. Here are some examples and reasoning on such for the current discussion:
1. resources should not be general, go back to certain resources on certain planets.
Why: As it stands, there is no real need to own certain planets or systems other than accumulating planets and a good base to move from, but if the hypermatter/darkmatter/hvy/regular metals ect ect were harder to get build your bases people would be A: more willing to defend them and B: it would provide a need for more tactical movements/attacks
2. Enhancements should be sent back to credit/drop days
Why: First, see point one. Second, if you had to purchase them there wouldn't be as much AI farming, but that is not to say you can't get one by killing an AI, it just wouldn't be the greatest (new idea merged with old) and those that did drop could be from any NPC or PC ship, like say maybe dropping a reactor I could stick on a Claw. Thirdly, I'd be for keeping the enhancements but making sure they are heavily expensive (bring back credits!) and rank specific so say a Lt. can't buy core weapons/1500 class reactors (remember those days?)
PS: I'd like to be able to kick out an object from Ship A and put it on Ship B and vise versa, resrouce loss should still count.
3. (this idea I think is new) Make a server exclusively AI, there is no PK'ing allowed so noobs and old timers who are coming back get a decent learning/refreshing enviroment, no matter the rank.
Why: I hope self explanitory
Just a few thoughts, I'll not mention my ideas for Cloaking, Jumping and the like, but for a vague idea, think back to 2003 and how the game ran in those days (with certain exceptions).
[ This Message was edited by: Hell Bender on 2009-10-14 18:54 ]
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Krim {C?}
Marshal
Galactic Navy
Joined: June 24, 2002
Posts: 362
From: Boston MA
| Posted: 2009-10-14 22:39
Quote:
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On 2009-10-14 15:13, MrSparkle wrote:
The biggest problem I see with that Krim (as I always play devil's advocate) is that players will join the team with the most planets and the best chance at rare enhancements. |
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Thanks for bringing that up. I've been with UGTO since day one, and GTN for almost as long. I tend to forget the fact that many people hop around.
I guess, i'm vested in UGTO. Commited as it were, but you're right, that could lead to some problems.
Bonus prestige, I forgot about that, that could be one thing to make it worth while, but then again, I forgot about, and I guess prestige would have the same problem for faction hoping.
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Light404
Grand Admiral
Joined: May 10, 2002
Posts: 54
| Posted: 2009-10-14 23:11
Buying enhancements from planets would not be a good idea, because once a system is established every planet will have every resource, and then anyone could go to any planet and buy any enhancement no matter how expensive you could possibly make them, and that takes all the advantages away from the players who spend time in DS getting those enhancements for their ships (even it is farming from elites, that still takes A LOT of time)
And if you made them expensive, then its only going to be "whos there first to get the good stuff" race and that will piss everyone off.
And if only higher ranks can have the best enhancements, I geuss thats motivation to subscribe, but it still doesn't negate the fact that all the players who had to work for their enhancements will be angry that everyone else just went to exartha or omyvore or whatever and bought 8 advanced multiplexers, unless you wanted to limit purchased enhancements to "limited" ones, but those are so common who would buy em?
The way DS is set up now, a credit system for buying ship weapons/armours of any kind will simply not work in any way shape or form, ditto for enhancements. Make it so players in cruiser class and above will drop the best enhancements and leave it at that (don't want people shying away from bigger ships for fear of being mobbed to a greater extent than happens now).
Anykind of credit system (like being able to upgrade systems and completely change the weapons layout on a ship) would require a revamp of DS on a massive scale, and that is basically sending it back to its first year.
Did I love the customisation of old? Hell yeah! It was fun, a game in and of itself and amazingly badass, but the ships were stupidly OP.
DS has progress and evolved, and in every way so far its for the better
As for the actual upgrading of ships and the way those upgrades are aquired, theres room for tweaking (aka make it so players have a greater chance of dropping upgrades more so than AI) not an overhaul.
[ This Message was edited by: Light404 on 2009-10-14 23:20 ]
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