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 Author IDEA : The closer to planet the bigger signature
Dwarden
Admiral
CHIMERA

Joined: June 07, 2001
Posts: 1072
From: Czech Republic
Posted: 2009-10-20 19:20   
funny i got cruiser running about these 12+ eccm attacking and cloaking like nothing going on ...

not to mention dessies and frigates ...



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Hellza - Dark Master
Fleet Admiral
Praetorian Wolves


Joined: June 06, 2004
Posts: 498
Posted: 2009-10-20 20:29   
Quote:

On 2009-10-20 06:51, BackSlash wrote:
I'll bring this up next dev meeting.




That makes me want to cry. a lot.


Quote:

On 2009-10-20 19:20, Dwarden wrote:
funny i got cruiser running about these 12+ eccm attacking and cloaking like nothing going on ...

not to mention dessies and frigates ...




it realllly does effect us, unless a recent patch broke it?.
frigates?... is that what everyone is afraid of? those little squisky things?
I must be flying the wrong ships then clearly.
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MrSparkle
Marshal

Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
Posted: 2009-10-20 21:11   
Cruisers cloak and decloak faster. They're also not the MV threat.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal

Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
Posted: 2009-10-21 04:18   
Quote:

On 2009-10-20 07:32, MrSparkle wrote:
I would rather go back to the old system where ECM helped hide cloak and ECCM helped reveal it than this....

EDIT: I wouldn't mind more building slots on planets. Seems silly that gigantic planets have the same 32 limit as tiny ones.

[ This Message was edited by: MrSparkle on 2009-10-20 07:35 ]




I approve these messages.

[ This Message was edited by: Azreal on 2009-10-21 04:19 ]
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Enterprise
Chief Marshal

Joined: May 19, 2002
Posts: 2576
From: Hawthorne, Nevada
Posted: 2009-10-21 05:04   
Its too bad that ECM or ECCM barely work properly as it is to make that happen.

Of course then we'd have to beef up Kluth's other parts then to make up for a less effective cloak.

I'm sure everyone wants that though right?





-Ent
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Trix
Marshal

Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 21
From: Any where IQQ are
Posted: 2009-10-21 06:58   
everybody is saying, add more sensors to the planet,

fine thats possible, but has anybody thought, that since the tech change, we have lost build slots on the planets already, due to that tech buildings haveing to stay on the planet. which has caused the planets to have lower defence bases on them.

now your saying lose more defence bases for eccm, how are these planets suppose to defend themselves, they can hardly do that now.

what i would like to see is the planets build slots be increased, since this wasnt done when the tech change was done.

in previous version, planets had 32 build slots and tech structures could be scrapped, and be replaced with sensor bases.

this version, we still have 32 build slots on the planets, but due to the tech buildings haveing to stay on the planet, and cant be scrapped for the sensor bases, we lose 4-6 slots. but the build slots on the planets were never increased, causeing planets to have reduced defence.

it would be nice if we can have the planets build slots increased from 32, to lets say 38 0r 40 build slots,

i know earth has an increased amount of build slots,(45 slots not sure havent been to a home planet in awhile)and im not sure about other faction home planets, but im guessing they also have increased build slots on them,

to me easiest solution is to increase the build slot count for the extra sensor bases,

my two cents worth

[ This Message was edited by: Trix on 2009-10-21 07:55 ]
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Mr Black
Grand Admiral
Palestar


Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 486
From: Gaifenland
Posted: 2009-10-21 08:15   
Although this does sound like a good idea, it pushes the defensive edge too far in favor of the human factions; unfairly impacting the effectiveness of K'Luth tactics and strategy. This is an example of a sound theory, however it is unworkable given the current game environment and context.

Faction balance is a very subtle equation. Even altering the build rate of one structure can have a butterfly effect impacting the rest of the game, and completely throwing off the distribution of power between Factions that we wish to achieve.

There a a few area's that I would like to take a longer look at, now that v1.5xx has matured some.

Some examples:

* Combat Range: Weapon ranges were increased dramatically with previous versions. Although some work has been done to reduce and limit this for 1.5xx, we have had to be careful in just how big a change to implement. I would like to bring down maximum cannon ranges further, specifically for UGTO and K'Luth. This should put them more in line with the type of combat that each faction is supposed to excel at.

* Factions Roles: We need to ensure that each faction is keeping true to their intended purpose and play style. For K'Luth it is close ranged hit and run. High damage sneak assaults and guerrilla style warfare. K'Luth operate best in small, mobile groups of 3-4 vessels. UGTO are designed to be the grinding faction with excellent energy systems and little reliance on ammunition. This gives them a lot of staying power in combat, and makes each ship nearly self sufficient. ICC are intended to be the more defensive faction. Fortifying their outposts and moving ahead slowly, individual ICC ships are weaker offensively, with more reliance on support and logistics to achieve their goals.

* Missiles, Lasers, PD and Fighters: This whole systems needs a careful overhaul. You cannot change one aspect without influencing the others. Reducing missile counts makes PD more effective, therefore making lasers stronger. All the while you still have to measure this up against projectile weapons. I would like to make individual missiles more effective, and slow down PD and laser fire rates, while ensuring that they still do comparable damage to the other weapons. This would probably entail beams firing for longer, making for more prettiness. We simply have to cut missiles numbers in DarkSpace to help facilitate larger server populations and more stable game play.

* Drones, Depots and Platforms: Supply platforms have skewed the defensive edge in favor of the UGTO and K'Luth due to their reliance on armor. The problem is that drones have only one value for both gadget and hull repair rates. We had to increase the repair rate for ship hulls, but this then had a knock on effect to armor, making it repair too fast in comparison to shields. The complaints about shield regeneration rates are not being ignored. They are, however, being pointed in the wrong direction is this is the root cause for why things feel so unfair. Shields do recharge hit points faster than in previous versions of DarkSpace, reducing turn around time for combat. Sadly, UGTO and K'Luth can currently turn around faster, and we cannot without certain key code changes that have already been requested.
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t500
Marshal

Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 188
From: vermont
Posted: 2009-10-21 09:11   
Quote:

On 2009-10-21 08:15, Mr Black wrote:
Although this does sound like a good idea, it pushes the defensive edge too far in favor of the human factions; unfairly impacting the effectiveness of K'Luth tactics and strategy. This is an example of a sound theory, however it is unworkable given the current game environment and context.

Faction balance is a very subtle equation. Even altering the build rate of one structure can have a butterfly effect impacting the rest of the game, and completely throwing off the distribution of power between Factions that we wish to achieve.

There a a few area's that I would like to take a longer look at, now that v1.5xx has matured some.

Some examples:

* Combat Range: Weapon ranges were increased dramatically with previous versions. Although some work has been done to reduce and limit this for 1.5xx, we have had to be careful in just how big a change to implement. I would like to bring down maximum cannon ranges further, specifically for UGTO and K'Luth. This should put them more in line with the type of combat that each faction is supposed to excel at.

* Factions Roles: We need to ensure that each faction is keeping true to their intended purpose and play style. For K'Luth it is close ranged hit and run. High damage sneak assaults and guerrilla style warfare. K'Luth operate best in small, mobile groups of 3-4 vessels. UGTO are designed to be the grinding faction with excellent energy systems and little reliance on ammunition. This gives them a lot of staying power in combat, and makes each ship nearly self sufficient. ICC are intended to be the more defensive faction. Fortifying their outposts and moving ahead slowly, individual ICC ships are weaker offensively, with more reliance on support and logistics to achieve their goals.

* Missiles, Lasers, PD and Fighters: This whole systems needs a careful overhaul. You cannot change one aspect without influencing the others. Reducing missile counts makes PD more effective, therefore making lasers stronger. All the while you still have to measure this up against projectile weapons. I would like to make individual missiles more effective, and slow down PD and laser fire rates, while ensuring that they still do comparable damage to the other weapons. This would probably entail beams firing for longer, making for more prettiness. We simply have to cut missiles numbers in DarkSpace to help facilitate larger server populations and more stable game play.

* Drones, Depots and Platforms: Supply platforms have skewed the defensive edge in favor of the UGTO and K'Luth due to their reliance on armor. The problem is that drones have only one value for both gadget and hull repair rates. We had to increase the repair rate for ship hulls, but this then had a knock on effect to armor, making it repair too fast in comparison to shields. The complaints about shield regeneration rates are not being ignored. They are, however, being pointed in the wrong direction is this is the root cause for why things feel so unfair. Shields do recharge hit points faster than in previous versions of DarkSpace, reducing turn around time for combat. Sadly, UGTO and K'Luth can currently turn around faster, and we cannot without certain key code changes that have already been requested.




good point.
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MrSparkle
Marshal

Joined: August 13, 2001
Posts: 1912
From: mrsparkle
Posted: 2009-10-21 10:00   
More than just a good point. We now have the intended faction roles defined for us, so people can't just speculate on what they think a faction should be. We also have various reasons why things can't be changed. Sucks for me since I really want missiles to have better tracking, but it would probably kill the server.

(btw, I'd rather have fewer missiles with better tracking than many missiles with poor tracking, like now)

I'm wondering if since armor is repaired faster than shields regenerate, that ICC armor should be beefed instead of trying to improve shields? (which sounds hard to do from what I've read so far). If ICC relies on support and logistics, then having good armor fits in well. It's a temporary solution if anything.

It's probably easier to beef their armor than to beef their shields, or is it? Would it add too much mass and make them slow and sluggish? Too many game functions rely on each other
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