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The ICC noobs point of view. |
Dorans imaginary buddy
Admiral
Joined: February 05, 2010
Posts: 24
|  Posted: 2010-05-16 22:33
as ugto it feels like killing a fly with a sledge hammer and im on the reciving end. but thats rare. see kluth need weakness like there armor is extreamly extreamly weak (its only fairly weak compared to ugto standerd armor) and it bothers we that (this comment it directed to the devs) that kluth get the same amount of points (i think 120 for a dread but not sure at all) as any other faction. they should get some kinda point penalty to there build.
look at the krill. compare it to a AED or AD. a krill can knock a AED out so easyly because of the cloak. sure you can argue all you want but what good would it be to try to disprove me with a wounded kids ego of a comment stating "thats not true i have seen it before"? thats all fine n dandy but still i dislike how there super dread have this unstoppable aura. it takes 2 bursts to take my torp cruiser (with 1st layer standerd 2nd layer reflective) to 14% hull. im not mad while typing this and i wont get mad at who quote me because i probley wont care for argueing over the internet. i just wish the ugto and icc was not so helpless vs the kluth.
its not tatics
its not skill
its nothing more then decloak behind and mash space bar.
with focused frusration.
spirit
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-16 23:12
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On 2010-05-16 22:33, Spirit Of Fire *CO* wrote:
its nothing more then decloak behind and mash space bar.
with focused frusration.
spirit
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I supposed point jumping your enemy and then mashing the space bar is a world of difference?
LOL. Get over yourself please.
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Reznor
Marshal
Joined: March 29, 2010
Posts: 316
| Posted: 2010-05-17 00:06
Having flown as kluth, the scariest thing to see is an escort destroyer/picket destroyer that knows what it's doing.
Tons of lasers mean they're decent up close, where you want to be. They're faster and more manueverable, they get out of your arc or range fast, very fast.
They have some eccm suites for pinging or leaving it on and making you uncloak slower.
2 ADs with an escort dessie spotting for them can basically shoot without retaliation.
Without eccm support, kluth ARE more powerful (cept vs the EAD and AD, but those are built to take hits) .
But the beacon is devistating. I've had more than one kluth just give up the cloak entirely because they cant fight back.
Beacons beacons beacons. But don't go overboard, 3 is enough. I read somewhere that beacon spam isn't allowed.
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-17 01:37
I hear a lot it suggested or implied that people on luth tend to be better, or team players, but I've spent a lot of time on every faction and don't think they're any different to other players. It's just a different faction, with it's own strengths and weaknesses.
I think it really comes down to the cloak. People are more willing to take risks and go into situations other factions would consider suicide, because they can usually survive it. But most of all, luth cloaks give them unparalleled view of the battlefield, and time to make decisions. Exposed ships get moved on and taken out. They always know exactly what the field looks like, whereas icc/ugto have to guess. This uncertainty naturally makes people more cautious.
The faction is very much similar to early WWII german submarine warfare. Without information about the enemy, icc/ugto have to move in groups, and it's only reasonable they prefer planets given the obvious benefits. Just like in reality, the most effective weapon is information. Location and exposure is the key. Like the British ASW boats, picket and escort dessies are lethal, able to keep up significant pressure and counter the luth's natural advantages.
I'm not suggesting I'm the greatest or even a good dessy pilot, but I know when I pull out an ed or picket, and have dps backup, it makes a huge difference. A few dreads get popped or jump and suddenly they're playing a far more cautious game, as i saw in scen recently. After ripping through a bunch they drew together more, and used some excellent dictor work to trap our dreads. It was a great game and a good example of changing playstyles.
Without effective ASW ships present, luth tend to run free, and frankly have it extremely easy.
BTW I'm a huge submarine sim fan 
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-05-17 02:24 ]
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-05-17 07:16
Quote:
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On 2010-05-16 22:33, Spirit Of Fire *CO* wrote:
its not tatics
its not skill
its nothing more then decloak behind and mash space bar.
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It's this continuing attitude that probably gets you killed more than anything else.
It shows a lack of respect for the experience of your enemy. I dont mean you must respect me personally. I mean, you so simply overlook the years of experience that many of the 'luths have. We are not primarily made up of noobs, as seems to be a prevailing myth. UGTO gets more noobs than any of the factions, from what I have seen over many years.
Take a look at Wolf's roster sometimes. See how long that some of us have played. How many battles vs HCs and ADs and every other ship do you think we have fought lost and won? Hundreds? Thousands?
And then there is the insane ability that this faction has for adaptation.
Ive said it before, I'll say it again. If they took every ship except the extractor from us, we'd still be wiping you up most of the time. We adapt and teamwork. That simple.
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Dorans imaginary buddy
Admiral
Joined: February 05, 2010
Posts: 24
| Posted: 2010-05-17 09:44
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On 2010-05-17 07:16, Azreal wrote:
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It's this continuing attitude that probably gets you killed more than anything else.
It shows a lack of respect for the experience of your enemy. I dont mean you must respect me personally. I mean, you so simply overlook the years of experience that many of the 'luths have. We are not primarily made up of noobs, as seems to be a prevailing myth. UGTO gets more noobs than any of the factions, from what I have seen over many years.
Take a look at Wolf's roster sometimes. See how long that some of us have played. How many battles vs HCs and ADs and every other ship do you think we have fought lost and won? Hundreds? Thousands?
And then there is the insane ability that this faction has for adaptation.
Ive said it before, I'll say it again. If they took every ship except the extractor from us, we'd still be wiping you up most of the time. We adapt and teamwork. That simple.
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actully my kill death ratior is above 1:1 and your FORCED to use team work. you "adapt" hah theres a diff from having to use it from wanting to use it. the game is made so it forces group activity (planet hugging, wolf packs, PD, etc etc) and i enjoy that it does force team work.
i can kill a combat dread with a captain that has been playing forever (ex coombie) its not about skill its about cloak.
you know what i would like to point out your comment about your fleet. YOU FLEET IS NOT THE POINT OF MY COMMENT! theres more fleets then wolf and PB on kluth ya know. it doesnt matter skill really because all you do is decloak in the blind spot attack cloak let your buddy take a wack at the blind spot then repeat. its oppertunistic FORCED teamwork. not skill.
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Azreal
Chief Marshal
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 2816
From: United State of Texas, Houston
| Posted: 2010-05-17 10:08
My point wasnt to say that Wolf is anything in particular. Please re-read what I said. I was pointing out the amount of experience on the fleet. Thats really all. Like I said, we have fought, won and lost so many battles, and controlling our ships are second nature to us. You also should keep in mind how well we know YOUR ships, too. We know where your weaknesses are, and how/when to hit you most of the time.
And there is much much more than simply decloaking on an enemies six. Much has to do with the amount of patience to wait for your opening, and all the while avoiding pings, control+click shots, beacons, etc. We do so many things to set up a good hit on an enemy that you never even see. So many times, we draw an enemy to hit one ship, pulling his rear around to face the two allies that arent quite on his six, but close. Just an example of what I mean.
And in no way was I dogging you. Just pointing out that it isnt as simple as "decloak and spacebar". The Kluth who play that way arent the good K'Luth. It really is that simple.
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-05-17 12:18
if you want to look at it fleet wise spirt hasn't pb and wolf witch are the two main fleet then you have a few remnets of borg and the new fleet x(shadow Pirates) wolf and pb are really the only two main big fleets and they have been on ugto and icc before and they win on all sides how is it that when wolf was ugto that they gave luth problems but yet i hear all ugto and icc complain how they can't win vs luth cause of cloaks and stuff. the only reason luth does as good as it does is the fact of skill and team work i am not bashing ya or anything just saying that the two main big fleets have played other factions and won on those side as well yall just have to learn how to use your ship and that what this thread is really about trying to help newbies and a few vets on how to vs luth it not that hard just learn weakness and your ship
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Lonectzn
Fleet Admiral
Joined: January 06, 2005
Posts: 202
| Posted: 2010-05-17 16:25
Christ why does it always have to come down to some pointless Vet or fleet contest..
I think the only conclusions we can draw from this is that vets are the most arrogant players.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-05-17 16:27 ]
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James 296
Fleet Admiral
Joined: March 19, 2009
Posts: 141
| Posted: 2010-05-17 17:19
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On 2010-05-17 16:25, Lonectzn wrote:
Christ why does it always have to come down to some pointless Vet or fleet contest..
I think the only conclusions we can draw from this is that vets are the most arrogant players.
[ This Message was edited by: Lonectzn on 2010-05-17 16:27 ]
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hate to admit it but lonectzn has it right for you "experianced" vets. don't get me wrong, I do respect you and your skill in fighting but you've forgotten about this: speaking strategically k'luth has the biggest advantage far outweighting anything UGTO or ICC have . what is it you ask? Your able to control information, more specifically your able to control where, when, what, and how your doing things which in war is the biggest advantage you can have. hint* why do you think D-Day was a success and not a big failure, the germans thought the allies were land at a different place because the allies were able to control the information the germans were getting
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Lrd_Hunter
Grand Admiral
Joined: August 16, 2006
Posts: 245
| Posted: 2010-05-17 18:01
why lol ok us vets are trying to tell yall how to kill us and yall spit it back in our face all were saying luth have the advantege cause of that reason there all yall can do is point fingers and say it the vets or the luth core weapon are two strong or something like that and yall never listen.
this is the way to kill a lobster how we wolf when were ugto or icc do it. ok they jump you you shot them so natrul they cloak. so guess what you turn on your eccm to ping you see the target then it disaper then yall mess up you turn your eccm off to ping again so mean while it rechargeing and we unlcoak and guess what since sig ain't high we uncloak faster and nail you again then yall try to ping again over and over. don't turn off your eccm let it just run gues it knock sig up higher so take longer to uncloak and while we uncloak you shot us hey guess we were able to maybe get off one alpha after that then we have to cloak again and guess what were hurt so were having to repair and guess what don't take alot of energy but takes a little for the armor to regnrate and for the ahr to work so we have to go slower so we don't use all our energy then by time were ready again were still hurt our repair about gone but yall are nearly fully healed omg wow so simple to fight luth but us vets on luth try to help and this happens
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Kenny_Naboo
Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 3823
From: LobsterTown
| Posted: 2010-05-17 21:40
Quote:
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On 2010-05-17 09:44, Spirit Of Fire *CO* wrote:
actully my kill death ratior is above 1:1 and your FORCED to use team work. you "adapt" hah theres a diff from having to use it from wanting to use it. the game is made so it forces group activity (planet hugging, wolf packs, PD, etc etc) and i enjoy that it does force team work.
i can kill a combat dread with a captain that has been playing forever (ex coombie) its not about skill its about cloak.
you know what i would like to point out your comment about your fleet. YOU FLEET IS NOT THE POINT OF MY COMMENT! theres more fleets then wolf and PB on kluth ya know. it doesnt matter skill really because all you do is decloak in the blind spot attack cloak let your buddy take a wack at the blind spot then repeat. its oppertunistic FORCED teamwork. not skill.
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If we go by your mindset, then none of us have skill.
Kluth don't have skill. We only manuever in cloak, avoiding your pinging, avoiding your blind fire, getting on your six, timing our decloaks, and then hitting you at one arc and then adjusting our course and speed to ensure we remain pointed at that arc and out of your firing arc, at the same time trying to rotate the ship to spread out the incoming fire across the different arcs of our armor.
Yup no skill.
And hoonam factions also have no skills. All they do is ping ping, then point jump the enemy, hit E to target, mash spacebar, and turn and burn trying to keep them within range and firing arc.
No skill.
Come to think of it. How much skill do we need pressing the keys on our keyboard?
You're not drifting your car across the tarmac, balancing your vehicle on the edge of traction and control. You're not knee-down on the racetrack riding your motorcycle, keeping your throttle hand in check, taking care not to highside yourself into the next week. You're not landing your plane in heavy crosswinds.
WHAT SKILLZ?
We're all pushing keys on a keyboard.
Get over your very frustrated self. Then maybe you'll realize that the enemy that you fight isn't going to stay visible with a crosshair on his butt.
[ This Message was edited by: Kenny_Naboo on 2010-05-17 21:45 ]
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Anathemia
1st Rear Admiral
Joined: June 23, 2009
Posts: 38
| Posted: 2010-05-17 21:57
Frankly I'm amazed how hard (painful) some of these posts are to read. :P
Line after line with no structure or punctuation leaves me guessing where one part ends and another begins. That's on top of all the typefails xD
Or in other words, it comes down to the small fact that dreads and cruisers are not always a good idea for EVERYONE to fly. My HC gets eaten? I will jump into a ping corvette and cause EW hell while sitting under a dread then run the hell away and behind and launch beacons.
The humans are one thing. You can spam stations and dreads at those with few problems. Aliens (K'luth) are another thing entirely and require different tactics. You'd think this would be obvious but it is interesting how much QQ there is about not being able to squash a lobster dessie with a cruiser or a lobster cruiser with a dreadnaught.
The point is, you might have a chance purely 1v1 under perfect conditions but you cannot guarantee that moar will not come. If yer fighting the K'luth that little scout effectively equals a dread in the amount of sheer power it commands on the field. K'luth get cloak and AHR to compensate for weak armor and narrow firing arcs on top of generally shorter ranged ships.
What if you take away that cloak? I assure you that AHR won't save any Krill from a dictor, a scout, and probably two cruisers or greater firepower. The Krill dies, just move on to the next target and take em out one by one if need be. ICC has the best ping scout hands down as the rotated shields to aft arc (full reactives with all +recharge enh is just evil xD) will save you from the ruptors and a few psi cannons. SI shouldn't hit tbh unless you are semi-afk trying to eat or something :P
This is starting to just run on and on but you get the point >.> Even if it seems like overkill, always attack K'luth in a balanced fleet with good tactics and they'll be forced to play like humans and that is OUR playfield. They aren't built like us and will run or die because they are now literally a squishy bug.
You can 1v1 a lobster if you get lucky but you will not win all the time or even half the time if you get lazy and just toss dreads/stations. Tactics are key, teamwork is key. You will not win trying to fight alone because you usually won't find out about it turning from a 1v1 to a 1v4 until it is FAR too late. Happy fireworks. :P
[ This Message was edited by: Ian9018's Ghost on 2010-05-17 22:19 ]
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Necrotic
Chief Marshal
Pitch Black
Joined: March 19, 2002
Posts: 378
| Posted: 2010-05-17 22:25
These anti kluth posts are funny becuse it makes them look like noobs.
they keep saying cloak is op,krills are op the whole faction is op. Problem is we know how to play icc and or ugto better then they do. if all kluth went anouther faction and we owned all it must becuse the cloak is op right lol. You anti kluth people are noobs and need to learn how to play. Get over yourself adapt and overcome.
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Tellaris
Grand Admiral
Galactic Navy
Joined: April 30, 2002
Posts: 830
From: Land of Chocolate
| Posted: 2010-05-17 22:48
K'Luth is nowhere near as strong as people like to make out they are. They are actually incredibly irritating, but thats about their only point.
PINGING. Its so big. You have a few ECCM running constantly to mess with cloak times, you have a few pinging. Works wonders for killing the buggers. The longer their decloak/cloak time, the more time you have to react to one trying to decloak behind you. Anywhere from a shift+j, to simply turning and shooting the crap out of them. A sig of just 30 seems to add a couple of seconds to their decloak time. Thats about 6-8 total ECCMs. You can get that with 2 ECCM scouts easy. Then, theres beacons. One decloaks? Cool. Beacon him. He will never cloak in time to get away. He is dead, especially if hes inside an interdictor field. You see any decloaking/decloaked luth? stop pinging, just run your ECCM instead. If it doesn't significantly impair him, it will his cloaked teammates.
With ICC/UGTO, its fly up, mash space bar, thats about it. Maybe try dodgeing a bit, and maybe try making them eat different arcs. But there isn't a whole lot that you really need to do.
K'Luth is ALL about the electronic warfare. ECCM is king here, NOT firepower. 1 EAD can take out a krill, even two siphons on its own if its flown well and modded properly, so long as it has ECCM around it.
A BD can kill a siphon 1 on 1 if flown well enough. (I nearly did, it was at 1%. But I was unmodded, the Siphon had the engine trail color upgrade on, as its only upgrade, so it had higher manuverability and speed). K'Luth ships are weak when
-There is ECCM ships present
-They are beaconed.
Then its a lobster dinner for everybody!
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